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Thread: Better Call Saul

  1. #281
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheXFactor View Post
    You just know that they are not going to leave this shit alone. Expect another "Breaking Bad" sequel.


    the show runner has indicated he wants to do anything but another show in this universe. ever.

    he might change his mind someday but its not to be counted on.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  2. #282
    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    It just didn’t sit well with me. I seem to be the only one as people love it. I’ve thought about why I didn’t love the end as I wasn’t even sure. The show was great.


    What I didn’t like is that Saul was always Saul. He was Saul when he was slippin Jimmy.

    He was Saul when he was with Kim.

    I see a lot of reviews or commentary saying something along the lines of Kim was the only thing that ever kept him grounded or something nonsensical, but she got off on it. The whole we are bad together didn’t even ring true as that she got off on it and that he was already that guy is the only reason they ever were together. Showing her backstory, and why she got off on it was a highlight. She simply, in the end, didn’t have his tolerance for the ramifications.


    At times he reeled her in, particularly at the end.

    The whole Walter couldn’t have got away with it without me mea culpa at the end. The first time Walter met Saul, it was “don’t worry, I’ll get Badger a deal. “

    Then he realizes they don’t want him to get a deal and he’s angry that a prison shanking is out of the question. He broke bad long before any of them. They broke bad, he always was that guy. That he might not get his hands dirty is irrelevant, he’d be the guy who would make the call.

    So the whole I saw opportunity and it led to these horrible events doesn’t ring true, as he was someone suggesting eliminating the problem through a prison shanking on day one.

    Dudes like him don’t change. It took a life event to make Walter break bad. Jesse was always conflicted. We saw their descent. Saul was always Saul. He simply lacked a law degree as slippin Jimmy. The minute he got one, he endeavored to become Saul.

    There was never an ounce of this is wrong, only self-preservation. That dude doesn’t fall on the sword, ever. That’s my problem with the end.


    Forgot to put in spoilers as I can’t imagine opening the thread if I hadn’t watched it.

     
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      country978: thanks bcr. i havent watched it yet. waiting for netflix
    Last edited by BCR; 08-17-2022 at 08:46 AM.

  3. #283
    Platinum devidee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
     
    It just didnít sit well with me. I seem to be the only one as people love it. Iíve thought about why I didnít love the end as I wasnít even sure. The show was great.


    What I didnít like is that Saul was always Saul. He was Saul when he was slippin Jimmy.

    He was Saul when he was with Kim.

    I see a lot of reviews or commentary saying something along the lines of Kim was the only thing that ever kept him grounded or something nonsensical, but she got off on it. The whole we are bad together didnít even ring true as that she got off on it and that he was already that guy is the only reason they ever were together. Showing her backstory, and why she got off on it was a highlight. She simply, in the end, didnít have his tolerance for the ramifications.


    At times he reeled her in, particularly at the end.

    The whole Walter couldnít have got away with it without me mea culpa at the end. The first time Walter met Saul, it was ďdonít worry, Iíll get Badger a deal. ď

    Then he realizes they donít want him to get a deal and heís angry that a prison shanking is out of the question. He broke bad long before any of them. They broke bad, he always was that guy. That he might not get his hands dirty is irrelevant, heíd be the guy who would make the call.

    So the whole I saw opportunity and it led to these horrible events doesnít ring true, as he was someone suggesting eliminating the problem through a prison shanking on day one.

    Dudes like him donít change. It took a life event to make Walter break bad. Jesse was always conflicted. We saw their descent. Saul was always Saul. He simply lacked a law degree as slippin Jimmy. The minute he got one, he endeavored to become Saul.

    There was never an ounce of this is wrong, only self-preservation. That dude doesnít fall on the sword, ever. Thatís my problem with the end.


    Forgot to put in spoilers as I canít imagine opening the thread if I hadnít watched it.
    Does Kim share a cigarette with him in prison at the end if he doesnít fall on his sword?

  4. #284
    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devidee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
     
    It just didnít sit well with me. I seem to be the only one as people love it. Iíve thought about why I didnít love the end as I wasnít even sure. The show was great.


    What I didnít like is that Saul was always Saul. He was Saul when he was slippin Jimmy.

    He was Saul when he was with Kim.

    I see a lot of reviews or commentary saying something along the lines of Kim was the only thing that ever kept him grounded or something nonsensical, but she got off on it. The whole we are bad together didnít even ring true as that she got off on it and that he was already that guy is the only reason they ever were together. Showing her backstory, and why she got off on it was a highlight. She simply, in the end, didnít have his tolerance for the ramifications.


    At times he reeled her in, particularly at the end.

    The whole Walter couldnít have got away with it without me mea culpa at the end. The first time Walter met Saul, it was ďdonít worry, Iíll get Badger a deal. ď

    Then he realizes they donít want him to get a deal and heís angry that a prison shanking is out of the question. He broke bad long before any of them. They broke bad, he always was that guy. That he might not get his hands dirty is irrelevant, heíd be the guy who would make the call.

    So the whole I saw opportunity and it led to these horrible events doesnít ring true, as he was someone suggesting eliminating the problem through a prison shanking on day one.

    Dudes like him donít change. It took a life event to make Walter break bad. Jesse was always conflicted. We saw their descent. Saul was always Saul. He simply lacked a law degree as slippin Jimmy. The minute he got one, he endeavored to become Saul.

    There was never an ounce of this is wrong, only self-preservation. That dude doesnít fall on the sword, ever. Thatís my problem with the end.


    Forgot to put in spoilers as I canít imagine opening the thread if I hadnít watched it.
    Does Kim share a cigarette with him in prison at the end if he doesnít fall on his sword?
     
    Maybe? Probably not?

    She had already covered for him the previous week at a point when she was in full confession mode to Howardís widow.

    She knew he was alive, yet claimed to not know if he was still out there.

    He also didnít need to fall on his sword for her. They had her information for a month. Once they got Saul, he got his deal, and it had nothing to do with her initially.

    She got an innocent guy killed herself and would walk. Howard was on her. Would she resent Saul for being Saul serving 8 years instead of 80? Probably. Because it bother her and she would view him as not caring.

    Doesnít matter. It isnít like when she left he went the straight and narrow and tried to win her back over the course of years. Thatís a love story. He didnít do that, because thatís not who he was. He wasnít willing to change because he couldnít when he could have had a life with her. Now he can for a yearly smoke?

     
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      devidee: I don’t know man. I was really stoned when I watched it.

  5. #285
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by devidee View Post

    Does Kim share a cigarette with him in prison at the end if he doesnít fall on his sword?
     
    Maybe? Probably not?

    She had already covered for him the previous week at a point when she was in full confession mode to Howardís widow.

    She knew he was alive, yet claimed to not know if he was still out there.

    He also didnít need to fall on his sword for her. They had her information for a month. Once they got Saul, he got his deal, and it had nothing to do with her initially.

    She got an innocent guy killed herself and would walk. Howard was on her. Would she resent Saul for being Saul serving 8 years instead of 80? Probably. Because it bother her and she would view him as not caring.

    Doesnít matter. It isnít like when she left he went the straight and narrow and tried to win her back over the course of years. Thatís a love story. He didnít do that, because thatís not who he was. He wasnít willing to change because he couldnít when he could have had a life with her. Now he can for a yearly smoke?


     


    im still processing it as well and theres a lot going on that i cant get past, particularly him just saying 'instead of being in a country club for 7 years im going to die in a max security prison'.

    im really, really, really trying to understand what he gets for that and i dont think kim is enough, and i dont think proving his nay sayers wrong is enough.

    its not enough to justify it.

    even if it somehow spares kim from her civil suit, and afaik i dont think anything he did changes that.

    what does temper the unease with the ending, is that when youre on the run, its literal hell. its a form of psychological torment. but .. if that was part of this, maybe they should have gone out of their way to say so?

    so i dont know, the more i think about it, the more i think its a flawed ending, albeit a gorgeously executed one.

    i just cant get behind him dying in prison. not without SOME sort of narrative to justify it. leaving it all up to us to work out makes me think that either they had to panic re-edit it because they fumbled something and couldnt reshoot or that they just somehow wanted to let jimmy's evolution past being slipping jimmy stand on its own as a fulcrum.

    so yeah im not like shitty about it, but ngl, i share a lot of your concerns, having given it some thought.

    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  6. #286
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    from an interview with Gould;

     

    How important was it to the end of Kim’s story that Jimmy be behind bars?

    I think that Kim was on her own journey. I don’t know that Jimmy being behind bars is axiomatic for her. But I think the fact that they both confess, they both unloaded their consciences, they are both living more honest lives, that is the core of the ending.




    fuckin... i dont know man.....

    like again i dont _hate_ hate the ending, i just wish he had maybe gotten the original 30 years? like let the man have something to live/strive/work for, is my point here. toss us some fucking hope.

    but fuck it, jimmy actually seems happy in jail. weird shit man, not super comfy with this one.

    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  7. #287
    Diamond Sloppy Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    from an interview with Gould;

     

    How important was it to the end of Kimís story that Jimmy be behind bars?

    I think that Kim was on her own journey. I donít know that Jimmy being behind bars is axiomatic for her. But I think the fact that they both confess, they both unloaded their consciences, they are both living more honest lives, that is the core of the ending.




    fuckin... i dont know man.....

    like again i dont _hate_ hate the ending, i just wish he had maybe gotten the original 30 years? like let the man have something to live/strive/work for, is my point here. toss us some fucking hope.

    but fuck it, jimmy actually seems happy in jail. weird shit man, not super comfy with this one.

     
    I think Gould's trite sentiment encapsulates a lot.

    Feels like a million years about but Jimmy's been carrying around the guilt of getting his brother to hels and obviously made zero attempt to process this, just leaning more and more into Saul. Reacted the same when Kim left him. Obviously he's a piece of shit but probably not Walter White level sociopath.

    Throw in all of the Breaking Bad shit that he was complicit in, the soul drain of lamming it in Nebraska, flirting with murdering Carol Burnett etc. A tiny corner of his soul is better than that and demonstrating this to Kim is the one thing he can cling to behind bars where he no longer has to be on.

    Agree about why not 30 years versus 86 but felt like a very old time noir ending that sticks with you more because it's not saccharine or even satisfying.

    Honestly the complexity of the writing has me thinking Breaking Bad may be trash by comparison now; its ending definitely is.

     
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      sonatine: BB was always a very 'pop' take on very dark subject matter. at its core it was for mass consumption. BCS? sophisticated story about regret and redemption.
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  8. #288
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    was prison his time machine?



     
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      devidee: I don’t know man. I was really stoned while reading this.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
     


    was prison his time machine?


     
    maybe man. This show had me doing this for the last month. Waking up the next day pondering the whole thing. I was rewatching the phone booth scene on YouTube 3 episodes back and caught the title of the next episode was waterworks. I thought of Kim and knew she was working at sprinkler company, but then saw a comment someone made saying thatís also two spots before go to jail on monopoly and there were 2 episodes left, and I just knew both were right. They put that much thought into everything.

     
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      sonatine: fucking incredible

  10. #290
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    Yeah, the observation was so right on and just perfect for those dudes that I regretted catching it as I knew it couldnít be a coincidence.

  11. #291
    Platinum devidee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Yeah, the observation was so right on and just perfect for those dudes that I regretted catching it as I knew it couldnít be a coincidence.
    I thought it was because she cried on the train/bus. But I was, well, you know.

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    Total horseshit ending that would only happen in a fairytale.

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    same vibe tbh




    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  14. #294
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    bob tweeted that jimmy is in a better place and hes glad where he left things with the finale and i feel like thats kinda valid but when i compare this to series finales like The Leftovers im like ok, well, its nice that youre good with it i guess.

    also honestly am i really going to mope over a B+ ending in a world where thats so far above par?
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    bob tweeted that jimmy is in a better place and hes glad where he left things with the finale and i feel like thats kinda valid but when i compare this to series finales like The Leftovers im like ok, well, its nice that youre good with it i guess.

    also honestly am i really going to mope over a B+ ending in a world where thats so far above par?

     


    i absolutely am, yes, for weeks.


    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  16. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
     


    was prison his time machine?


     
    a real-time time machine?

  17. #297
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    im just asking;

    what exactly did saul do that could justify dying in prison?
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    im just asking;

    what exactly did saul do that could justify dying in prison?
    Name:  186335.png
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  19. #299
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    ok but he also confessed so wouldnt they at LEAST run concurrent?

    no priors. there are kingpins in prison with racks of bodies to their name who are eligible for parole after like 24 years.

    and lest we forget he literally was offered a plea of 7 years.

    and he didnt go to trial, just .. confessed.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  20. #300
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    dont get me wrong that graphic is incredible but seriously that sentence is batshit.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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