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Thread: Stealthmunk (Justin Schwartz) going off on poker coaches, specifically Jonathan Little

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    Stealthmunk (Justin Schwartz) going off on poker coaches, specifically Jonathan Little

    Justin "Steathmunk" Schwartz decided to go off on a long Twitter rant today against poker coaches, accusing them of either being delusional or liars/scammers.



    Quote Originally Posted by stealthmunk
    Poker Coaching: 60% Outright scamming thieves/charlatans self-aware they can't win anymore. 39% delusional idiots unaware they suck. 1%good

    Its amusing to try to speculate if the person is a scumbag (self-aware they are selling snake-oil) or if they are just too stupid to know.

    Like take @phil_hellmuth for example, I'm positive that he truly believes he is one of the best NL players in the world, and great coach!

    Then look at @JonathanLittle does he know that the "information" he's putting out there or selling is complete garbage? Or is he delusional?

    See, if the person is dumb enough to think that they are actually a worthy poker coach, they aren't guilty of being a scumbag, only dumb... Whats even more funny, is they will read this tweet, and think "lol jealous haters" and not realize that they are in fact stupid. Circular..

    There are probably hundreds of MTT "Pros" now blinded by variance who have run above EV lifetime and think they would be a good poker coach.

    I used to get into fights on @twoplustwoforum with some idiotic poster named 'betgo' who sold poker coaching, and he was a moron too... Obviously, he didn't realize he was a moron. So he took offense to me calling him a thief for selling garbage. (his poker coaching)

    See I don't know if @JonathanLittle is self-aware and realizes he's terrible at poker. Take this guy though: http://t.co/uqTiQE134H

    I'd be willing to be a lot of money that @sharkslayerrr genuinely believes he's a top NL boss and his coaching is worth top dollar. So its hard to call @sharkslayerrr a scumbag, because he doesn't realize he's probably not even near the top 5000 NL players in the world.

    Now @JonathanLittle on the other hand....he seems smart enough to realize that the information he's putting out there is straight garbage. He should be berated then if he is in fact self-aware that he's scamming people. Apologies if he is just really stupid, delusional, unaware. You could browse @JonathanLittle coaching site for under 10 minsand be able to realize that this guy doesn't teach winning poker in 2015

    Whats amusing....is you then have the clueless amateurs getting reviews/blinded by variance as well! They don't know anything! So then an amateur wins a tournament. Causation=Correlation! (DUH) THATS WHY CHOICE=DNEGS/ANTONIO WIN...clueless training site gets credit. When in reality, anyone caring enough about poker to realize they suck and try to improve, will eventually luckbox some sort of tourney.

    Note: I'm not even saying @JonathanLittle doesn't win at poker in 2015, he might! I'm just saying what he's selling is outdated garbage.

    Its the same thing with markup. Amateur cashes 4 of first 6 live tourneys they play, so they think getting a 50-50 one time deal is fair. They aren't a scumbag at all, just clueless. However, a seasoned pro scamming a 50-50 onetime deal in a SHR from investors, is scum. Same. And can extrapolate further that people like Hellmuth /other delusional idiots think they'd be great investments, just like coaches.

    I love the people that say "its up to the consumer" lol, supporting these scumbags. This attitude is what @DanielColman_ hates=cancer... If you are selling shit, and you know that its shit, and you are claiming its gold, then you are a piece of shit. The end.

    Now obviously this isn't black and white, its very grey. But I think its obvious which "poker coaches" cross the line and are predatory. Its the whole "training" industry in anything. How can I know what makes a good XX coach (guitar, golf, any skill) if I have no experience.

    The only way a consumer would be able to know if a coach was worth it, would be if he didn't need coaching in the first place! duh! So then it relies on reviews, from stupid people, blinded by variance, who are still stupid, and learned nothing. So I offer REAL reviews.

    Fact: Anyone bad enough at poker to pay for @JonathanLittle coaching will not be able to understand if he improved or didn't from it.

    Fact: Just getting poker coaching probably offers a great placebo effect, and they will get better with the confidence, albeit artificial.

    Fact: Browsing @JonathanLittle coaching for under 10minutes I literally laughed out loud at advice/explanation three times before I quit.

    Yet so few of those same poker players call out the exact predatory type of delusional idiot scumbag that infests nearly all poker training.

    You know what I promise you won't happen....a poker coach like @JonathanLittle defending his product and challenging me calling me wrong.. As I'm sure he knows that I could use logic/facts/#science to just show that material he is masquerading as advanced poker is outdated shit.

    With the advances in modern medicine, can't teach doctors with shit from the 1920s! Don't ask P5s top 10 from before UIGEA for 2015 advice!

    To people asking me for "good coaches" I only browse enough to be able to identify "terrible" I'd have to look deeper to identify "good". Just like you could play very shortly with someone and deduce they are terrible at poker, but takes much longer to deduce they are good...

    To the people pointing out that 1% is too low. FINE. SOMETIMES I USE HYPERBOLE TO PROVE A POINT. KILL ME. IT WORKED DIDN'T IT?

    And for Poe's law to come into play.....there was a dude on 2p2 selling coaching on how to make 100k from coaching poker...i shit u not.

    RT @GriffinBenger: @JonathanLittle has cashed for 200k in the last month & a half alone. Your arguments are valid but ur targeting needs work IMO.

    LOLOL I spit up my drink at @GriffinBenger latest tweet. #blindedbyvariance

    If he's able to market himself as he wants, then there should be an open market, and people should be able to criticize it! I mean its in his pinned tweet! @JonathanLittle Watch that clip, and think "is that someone that understands poker in 2015" or a charlatan?

    In case any of you cash game players want to improve your MTT game, here's https://jonathanlittlepoker.leadpage...istake-replay/ … @ikepoker etc. take note. #tightisright

    I could talk poker with someone for 15 minutes and determine if they are an idiot, takes a while to see if elite, stupidity shows quickly.. He doesn't include math/theory/logic. He just basically pontificates nonsense and says "play tight OOP" He is Taylor Caby in 2004.

    I think he's being a bit hard on Little and other coaching operations. Not all coaches are aiming themselves at good players trying to become world class. Many coaches are aiming their services at fish, in which case they don't need to include advanced theory or fifth-level thinking in their training. Many bad players would benefit greatly from the most basic level of coaching from any competent player.

    I will say that he has a point, though, in that a lot of "coaches" inflate/mislead people about their success at the tables, and are actually coaching because they're broke and failed to make a living playing poker. You know... the "those that can't do, teach" line of thinking. And it's one of those things... when you're doing really well at poker, it's hard to imagine that you would want the distraction of a coaching business.

    I do believe that there are some legit/competent coaches out there, but probably also plenty of shady ones.

    Do you think stealthmunk is off base here, or is he right on? Or somewhere in the middle?

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    LOL POKER COACHING.

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    Photoballer 4Dragons's Avatar
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    Coaching is a game, always has been. To coach you have to have hustle.

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    honest question(s) Todd...


    do you feel better about your own shitty and boring ass life after you pick apart some other random poker pro ?

    I'm a 50 year old man, and I've never seen anyone celebrate the misfortune of others like you do

    does it make your dick hard to rip on other people ?

    I'm just in awe of your ability to be such an incorrigible prick 24 hours a day

    keep up the good work champ

     
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      Mdwst Hstlr: jesus

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyde View Post
    honest question(s) Todd...


    do you feel better about your own shitty and boring ass life after you pick apart some other random poker pro ?

    I'm a 50 year old man, and I've never seen anyone celebrate the misfortune of others like you do

    does it make your dick hard to rip on other people ?

    I'm just in awe of your ability to be such an incorrigible prick 24 hours a day

    keep up the good work champ

    Well, the "high" of winning 17k seems to have worn off quickly. Back to trolling me, I see.

    I am not "ripipng" on anyone here. I am reposting Stealthmunk's public tweets about poker coaching, and have taken a pretty neutral point of view on this situation.

    What post are you reading?

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    The Micon System really set the bar high. Most other coaching programs can't compete.

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    think of all the time and energy you're wasting on this pointless nonsense




    Benjamin is begging you to be a good father

     
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      ::o: trolling
      
      Sloppy Joe: ahem
      
      The_Standard: Yea wtf are you even talking about clown? You're crazy.
      
      Mdwst Hstlr: come on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyde View Post
    honest question(s) Todd...


    do you feel better about your own shitty and boring ass life after you pick apart some other random poker pro ?

    I'm a 50 year old man, and I've never seen anyone celebrate the misfortune of others like you do

    does it make your dick hard to rip on other people ?

    I'm just in awe of your ability to be such an incorrigible prick 24 hours a day

    keep up the good work champ

    Well, the "high" of winning 17k seems to have worn off quickly. Back to trolling me, I see.

    I am not "ripipng" on anyone here. I am reposting Stealthmunk's public tweets about poker coaching, and have taken a pretty neutral point of view on this situation.

    What post are you reading?




    so when you say 'trolling'....


    you mean when I call you out for being a hypocritical and self absorbed lying prick


    guilty as charged

     
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      ::o: trolling
      
      Sloppy Joe: ahem
      
      4Dragons: that avatar
      
      Mdwst Hstlr: gets so old

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Marty, you are trolling.

    I will delete future junk posts of yours in this thread. If you have something to complain about regarding me, create a new thread and do it there.

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    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Coaches exist in every endeavor so that won't be changing.

    Some obv. take advantage of recent success and try to cash in on it.

    When the poker boom hit I followed the rest into NL Holdem and lost

    regularly so I switched to limit just to keep the numbers under control

    but soon realized it too was not much easier for me, but I didn't lose so much

    so quickly.

    Then I found this site and the free training offered by Todd and Neverwin

    in limit and it turned my game into a profitable one, comparatively speaking.

    The the math wizards appeared and or the bots/cheaters an the bankroll

    slid back to a sink hole.

    I'm now back on NL and for some reason I'm winning more than losing.

    My question for you Todd, is Barry Tanenbaum still a respected limit coach

    and has Ed Miller ever been one? (I got his DVD from Pokerstars).

    Also, have you thought of getting into coaching for profit?

    I realize the game has changed due to the lack of donks

    but you could easily edit your former shows for this purpose.

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    Platinum JUSTIFIEDhomicide's Avatar
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    I think another big portion of the people can be seen as delusional at first. They start coaching and think they have it, and by the time they realize they're putting shit out, it's too late and they're already in business and moving forward. It's hard to admit you're gonna shut your shit down after believing it yourself for awhile and making your customers believe it as well.
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    Platinum herbertstemple's Avatar
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    Is it necessary for a good poker coach to be a successful player?

    Most great baseball and football coaches were at best mediocre players. Tony LaRussa and Whitey Herzog come to mind right off. I think doing something and teaching something are two different things. Its very reasonable for a guy to be a good teacher, but in the "heat of battle" of a poker hand to lose his train of thought and make poor decisions. Understanding theory and implementing it correctly again are two different things.

    Maybe Justin Schwartz is a better than all these coaches, and their advice is flawed in his mind. Isn't the point of a coach to make you a better player? If you are a "fish" and listen to any of these coaches, your play should improve, so they are doing their job.
    Tradition is a set of solutions for which we have forgotten the problems.

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    Gold abrown83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbertstemple View Post
    Is it necessary for a good poker coach to be a successful player?

    Most great baseball and football coaches were at best mediocre players. Tony LaRussa and Whitey Herzog come to mind right off. I think doing something and teaching something are two different things. Its very reasonable for a guy to be a good teacher, but in the "heat of battle" of a poker hand to lose his train of thought and make poor decisions. Understanding theory and implementing it correctly again are two different things.

    Maybe Justin Schwartz is a better than all these coaches, and their advice is flawed in his mind. Isn't the point of a coach to make you a better player? If you are a "fish" and listen to any of these coaches, your play should improve, so they are doing their job.
    Pretty much



    Lots of people could learn and understand poker theory but when put into the situation they melt or do something different. That doesn't meant they don't understand the correct concepts, it just might mean they can't follow-through with what they know to be true.

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    Those who can, do; those who can't, teach

    Poker coaches belong in the same bucket as NFL touts and stock promoters.

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    Platinum BetCheckBet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by herbertstemple View Post
    Is it necessary for a good poker coach to be a successful player?

    Most great baseball and football coaches were at best mediocre players. Tony LaRussa and Whitey Herzog come to mind right off. I think doing something and teaching something are two different things. Its very reasonable for a guy to be a good teacher, but in the "heat of battle" of a poker hand to lose his train of thought and make poor decisions. Understanding theory and implementing it correctly again are two different things.

    Maybe Justin Schwartz is a better than all these coaches, and their advice is flawed in his mind. Isn't the point of a coach to make you a better player? If you are a "fish" and listen to any of these coaches, your play should improve, so they are doing their job.
    Pretty much



    Lots of people could learn and understand poker theory but when put into the situation they melt or do something different. That doesn't meant they don't understand the correct concepts, it just might mean they can't follow-through with what they know to be true.
    Not this... On cell phone so can only type so much. But sports coaches totally dif. They are about managing a team and strategy. They are not teaching you how to do something.

    A poker coach is more so like a tutor. People use the term coach to mean teacher here. A team coach is totally different for several reasons.

    Poker coach is more so like music or chess teacher.

    Also those sports coachers were still better players than 99 percent of population

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetCheckBet View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post

    Pretty much



    Lots of people could learn and understand poker theory but when put into the situation they melt or do something different. That doesn't meant they don't understand the correct concepts, it just might mean they can't follow-through with what they know to be true.
    Not this... On cell phone so can only type so much. But sports coaches totally dif. They are about managing a team and strategy. They are not teaching you how to do something.

    A poker coach is more so like a tutor. People use the term coach to mean teacher here. A team coach is totally different for several reasons.

    Poker coach is more so like music or chess teacher.

    Also those sports coachers were still better players than 99 percent of population
    Partially agree, but at a certain level or point in time the

    coach's job is to push the team, or individual

    and make them feel invisible. Not all coaches

    have that in them yet they understand the game fully.

    So in poker you need the mental toughness

    and some devil may care attitude(Tyde) which not all

    "good" players have, especially in later years.

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    Silver ThreeBet's Avatar
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    Ton of truth in Stealthmunks post

     
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetCheckBet View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post

    Pretty much



    Lots of people could learn and understand poker theory but when put into the situation they melt or do something different. That doesn't meant they don't understand the correct concepts, it just might mean they can't follow-through with what they know to be true.
    Not this... On cell phone so can only type so much. But sports coaches totally dif. They are about managing a team and strategy. They are not teaching you how to do something.

    A poker coach is more so like a tutor. People use the term coach to mean teacher here. A team coach is totally different for several reasons.

    Poker coach is more so like music or chess teacher.

    Also those sports coachers were still better players than 99 percent of population
    I counter with every coach Tiger Woods has ever had.

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    Diamond shortbuspoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthmunk


    See I don't know if @JonathanLittle is self-aware and realizes he's terrible at poker. Take this guy though: http://t.co/uqTiQE134H
    Name:  Jonathan Little  Hendon Mob Poker Database.png
Views: 11663
Size:  123.4 KB

    I wish I could be as horrible as Jonathan Little is at poker. Obv there is only one way to resolve this.


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    I don't even know who this dude is

    heard the name before though

    his record looks pretty decent

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