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Thread: So the owner of Mt Gox also ran Silk Road and used it to inflate cryptocoin prices

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    So the owner of Mt Gox also ran Silk Road and used it to inflate cryptocoin prices

    This is according to a DHS agent who testified at the Silk Road / DPR trial today:


    Long before the Department of Homeland Security set its sights on Ross Ulbricht, the agency had another surprising suspect in mind as the possible creator and administrator of the Silk Road’s massive online drug market: Mark Karpeles, the chief executive of what was then the world’s biggest bitcoin exchange, Mt. Gox.

    In response to cross-examination by the defense in Ulbricht’s trial today, DHS special agent Jared Deryeghiayan revealed that in 2012 and 2013 he had pursued Karpeles as the suspected owner and operator of the Silk Road. He has also pursued Karpeles’ Mt. Gox associate Ashley Barr as the voice of the Dread Pirate Roberts, the Silk Road’s pseudonymous figurehead. Deryeghiayan confirmed he had even gone so far as to seek a warrant to search Karpeles’ Gmail account based on “probable cause” that the Mt. Gox owner had secretly administered the Silk Road in a bid to boost the price of bitcoin, and with it his own substantial cryptocurrency fortune.

    In an August 2013 affidavit written by Deryeghiayan and read aloud by Ulbricht’s defense attorney Joshua Dratel, the agent cited evidence that included Karpeles’ purported control of the website silkroadmarket.org, information received from a federal informant working with Karpeles, and Karpeles’ profile as a programmer and bitcoin mogul. “I believe this evidence shows Karpeles controlled silkroadmarket.org and the tuxtele.com website and hosted them both at IP addresses he controlled,” Deryeghiayan wrote in 2013. In his affidavit, he went on to cite Karpeles’ Linkedin page, and to argue that Tokyo-based Karpeles was “well suited to [create] an e-commerce website such as the Silk Road underground website.”

    In the same affidavit, Deryeghiayan also cited an interview I conducted with the Dread Pirate Roberts in July of 2013. “That sounds very much like Karpeles,” Deryeghiayan wrote.

    Karpeles declined WIRED’s request for comment.

    According to Deryeghiayan, his suspicions about Karpeles began when he started to analyze bitcoin accounts in April 2012. By July of that year, he “believed he had a good target” in Karpeles.

    Supporters of Ross William Ulbricht hold signs during the jury selection for his trial outside of federal court in New York, Tuesday, Jan. 13, 2015.
    Supporters of Ross William Ulbricht hold signs during the jury selection for his trial outside of federal court in New York, Tuesday, Jan. 13, 2015. Seth Wenig/AP
    While Karpeles’ English skills didn’t match the public writings of the Dread Pirate Roberts, Deryeghiayan confirmed in response to Dratel’s questions that he suspected Karpeles’ Mt. Gox staffer Ashley Barr had served as something like Karpeles’ ghostwriter, “a person who shared some of the same viewpoints…who was working for him.”

    In an internal email to other DHS staffers at the time, Deryeghiayan acknowledged writing: “We’ve built up quite a large list of information to lead us to this.” By August 2012, Deryeghiayan believed strongly enough that Karpeles was involved in the Silk Road that he advised DHS officials not to visit any of the websites controlled by Karpeles for fear of tipping him off to his investigation. At some point he also began receiving information from a confidential informant close to Karpeles, though Deryeghiayan didn’t offer details about that source in court.

    Deryeghiayan’s pursuit of Karpeles eventually led to an internal split within the DHS’s Homeland Security Investigations team (HSI), of which he was a part. While Deryeghiayan stealthily watched Karpeles from his Chicago office, another HSI team in Baltimore seized $3 million from Karpeles’ Mt. Gox subsidiary Mutum Sigillum in May of 2013. They accused him of running an unlicensed money transfer business.

    The Baltimore HSI agents met with Karpeles’ lawyers, whom Deryeghiayan said offered to have Karpeles share information about who might be running the Silk Road. Deryeghiayan, meanwhile, said that he believed the Baltimore division had potentially blown his chance of fingering Karpeles as the owner of the Silk Road, and wrote a strongly-worded email to fellow DHS staffers protesting against the Baltimore agents’ actions.

    It’s not clear what information, if any, Karpeles shared with the DHS about the Silk Road. When the court adjourned, Dratel said he still had at least an hour’s worth of questions left for Deryeghiayan.

    By raising Karpeles as an alternative suspect, it’s not yet clear if Ulbricht’s defense is seeking to convince the jury that Karpeles was in fact Silk Road’s owner, or simply trying to raise doubts about the DHS’s investigative abilities in the jury’s mind. Dratel spent the first half of the day forcing Deryeghiayan to admit uncertainties in the prosecution’s evidence linking Ross Ulbricht to the Dread Pirate Roberts persona, such as the possibility that the PGP private key that the Silk Road’s owner used to “sign” private messages had been shared among multiple people. Dratel also cited an internal email Deryeghiayan had sent in which he posited that the author of the Dread Pirate Roberts’ writing had changed in April 2012.

    In his opening argument Tuesday, on the other hand, Dratel argued that his client Ross Ulbricht had been set up by the “real Dread Pirate Roberts,” though he didn’t name any other candidates for that role. Dratel said that Ulbricht had indeed created the Silk Road, but he had quickly handed it off to others. Those unknown figures, Dratel continued, grew it into a narcotics empire, then framed Ulbricht as “the perfect fall guy” in late 2013. Dratel said that that “real” Dread Pirate Roberts had become concerned that law enforcement knew his real name. “And that name is not Ross Ulbricht,” he added.

    Shortly after the defense raised the issue of Deryeghiayan’s affidavit, prosecutor Serrin Turner objected to the line of questioning as “hearsay,” leading to the jury eventually being removed from the courtroom so that judge Katherine Forrest and both teams of lawyers could debate the issue. “The defense is trying to argue this other target is the real Dread Pirate Roberts,” Turner protested.

    But judge Forrest responded that the defense was merely trying to present “certain facts” to allow the jury to “draw inferences.”

    “The defense has been [trying to show] that Karpeles was at least arguably ‘a’ Dread Pirate Roberts,” she said. “They’re trying to raise reasonable doubts.”

     
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      Sanlmar: Great bedtime story
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    I can dig it

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Karpeles was bright but undisciplined, naive & inexperienced. The Bitcoin cafe fiasco while Rome was burning is evidence he could never muster the sophistication needed to mastermind Silk Road.

    The boob couldn't startup a coffee shop. C'mon.

    There was nothing in his past to demonstrate the worldliness required to play in the illicit drug arena. He woulda been owned fairly quickly.

    This is heartwarming affirmation of the ineptitude of the hack civil servants in DHS.

    But a fucking wonderful yarn nonetheless.

    Loved it.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Im far less convinced he lacked the aptitude to run a shitty drug bbs. I mean seriously, look at the other Silk Road admins that got exposed. Lex Luther they were not.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Gold abrown83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Im far less convinced he lacked the aptitude to run a shitty drug bbs. I mean seriously, look at the other Silk Road admins that got exposed. Lex Luther they were not.
    Not that it means a whole lot but he came out on Twitter and denied it.

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    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Karpeles was bright but undisciplined, naive & inexperienced. The Bitcoin cafe fiasco while Rome was burning is evidence he could never muster the sophistication needed to mastermind Silk Road.

    The boob couldn't startup a coffee shop. C'mon.

    There was nothing in his past to demonstrate the worldliness required to play in the illicit drug arena. He woulda been owned fairly quickly.

    This is heartwarming affirmation of the ineptitude of the hack civil servants in DHS.

    But a fucking wonderful yarn nonetheless.

    Loved it.
    Just finished watching Frontline's To Catch a Trader and The United States of Secrets.

    Both proved that people are capable of just about anything and both are reminders

    that you should trust no one.

    Ok, your own Mother should get the benefit of the doubt.

    Encrypt y'all.

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    super hero & alter ego.

    Dread Pirate Roberts & Karpales

    Superman & Clark Kent.

    Heroic myths have entertained us since the dawn of time.

    But I get it.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I don't know if any of this is true, but there are some pretty convincing stories that Karpeles was engaging in insider trading at Gox, and manipulated the market to run BTC up to 1200.

    If he's competent enough to pull that off, he's competent enough to do other shady things.

    I still think he and his associates have a lot of those missing bitcoin stashed away somewhere.

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I don't know if any of this is true, but there are some pretty convincing stories that Karpeles was engaging in insider trading at Gox, and manipulated the market to run BTC up to 1200.

    If he's competent enough to pull that off, he's competent enough to do other shady things.

    I still think he and his associates have a lot of those missing bitcoin stashed away somewhere.
    How clever do you have to be to rob the account given his understanding of the architecture?

    Wether the bitcoins were stolen by Karpeles or other theives it is poetic that it is these same bitcoins that are now being sold and crushing the market. Gypsies, tramps, bearwhales & theives.

    Wether BTC is $200 or $2 you should still be able to transfer funds. You are just gonna have to ask SaltyAus to dust off his old rig to process the transaction.

    Manipulating the market is still alive & well. OKCoin & those other rogues in China are doing their best with fee free exchanges. They are just doing the lords work.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    super hero & alter ego.

    Dread Pirate Roberts & Karpales

    Superman & Clark Kent.

    Heroic myths have entertained us since the dawn of time.

    But I get it.

    When a DHS agent says under oath that he had a wealth of hard evidence connecting Karpales & Silk Road, thats a lot more than smoke.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    super hero & alter ego.

    Dread Pirate Roberts & Karpales

    Superman & Clark Kent.

    Heroic myths have entertained us since the dawn of time.

    But I get it.

    When a DHS agent says under oath that he had a wealth of hard evidence connecting Karpales & Silk Road, thats a lot more than smoke.
    Karpeles, Mutum Sigillum & Dwolla were moving the money. This is the BIG DEAL to DHS. That's what DHS cares about. That's the association.

    These are not America's best & brightest.

    As an aside but equally entertaining.

    DHS are the same folks ACR needs to send Christmas & birthday cards to.

    Unlike our pal Micon, ACR is converting Bitcoin to DHS's precious US treasury notes. Oops. Now I guarantee there is a processor.... well I don't have to spell it out.


    Edit: I am writing assuming everyone knows DHS is all about the money laundering.
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 01-15-2015 at 11:06 PM.

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I don't know if any of this is true, but there are some pretty convincing stories that Karpeles was engaging in insider trading at Gox, and manipulated the market to run BTC up to 1200.
    A delayed LOL.

    Karpeles may have sprayed a little ether in the carburetor to get the motor started. But that's it. He didn't have to do more.

    reddit libertarians,Macau gamblers, Chinese speculators and everyone else were game to pile in to the "sure thing". I did my small part.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    I wouldnt be so fast to close the book on insider market manipulation on the scale suggested. Not by a damned site.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Ok, Sonatine, request detente

    You delete last & I will too.

    We will stay on topic. You first.

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    Platinum DirtyB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    When a DHS agent says under oath that he had a wealth of hard evidence connecting Karpales & Silk Road, thats a lot more than smoke.
    That article is pretty misleading. The DHS agent did suspect Karpales for a while. Then in September of 2013, the IRS told him they suspected Ulbricht, and they all quickly realized that Ulbricht was the guy.

    Despite their reputation, these people are not dumb. They took over the account of a Silk Road forum mod and started a chat with site manager "dread". When they arrested Ulbricht, that chat window was on his screen.

    http://www.wired.com/2015/01/silk-ro...ross-ulbricht/

     
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      Sanlmar: Beats looking myself

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Ok, Sonatine, request detente

    You delete last & I will too.

    We will stay on topic. You first.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    When a DHS agent says under oath that he had a wealth of hard evidence connecting Karpales & Silk Road, thats a lot more than smoke.
    That article is pretty misleading. The DHS agent did suspect Karpales for a while. Then in September of 2013, the IRS told him they suspected Ulbricht, and they all quickly realized that Ulbricht was the guy.

    Despite their reputation, these people are not dumb. They took over the account of a Silk Road forum mod and started a chat with site manager "dread". When they arrested Ulbricht, that chat window was on his screen.

    http://www.wired.com/2015/01/silk-ro...ross-ulbricht/

    I guess my question is; was Karpales involved before Ulbricht..
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Because seriously, real talkasaurus rex, even having the faintest link between Karpales and fucking Silk Road is simply staggering and totally blowing my mind.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Platinum DirtyB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyB View Post

    That article is pretty misleading. The DHS agent did suspect Karpales for a while. Then in September of 2013, the IRS told him they suspected Ulbricht, and they all quickly realized that Ulbricht was the guy.

    Despite their reputation, these people are not dumb. They took over the account of a Silk Road forum mod and started a chat with site manager "dread". When they arrested Ulbricht, that chat window was on his screen.

    http://www.wired.com/2015/01/silk-ro...ross-ulbricht/

    I guess my question is; was Karpales involved before Ulbricht..
    Ulbricht's lawyer's opening statement acknowledged that he created the site. Unless he's lying about that, which would be very odd, nobody was involved before Ulbricht.

    I don't know much about Karpales but if he was making millions from Mt. Gox, why would he risk it for a couple million more? The brilliant thing about stealing bitcoins is that there aren't a lot of laws against it, particularly in Japan. There are tons and tons of laws against conspiring to sell drugs, and a massive amount of resources available to enforce those laws.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    - Not implying Kapares was necessarily DPR
    - The DHS testimony is non-ambiguous
    - Why would he be involved? Greed, balls, hubris. Dude look at the volume of money in this equation. Its not dynasty money, its holy shit I'm a country now money.
    - There are billions of dollars in the wind. What is so odd about Ulbricht taking the fall in exchange for say, a hundred million dollars and the commitment that their Russian launderers wont have him burnt alive in his cell?
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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