Commerce kills free food for middle and high limit players, effective 3/1/15

[Dan Druff]

Reportedly, Commerce will stop giving free food to middle and high limit players, starting March 1, 2015.

Commerce has a much higher rake than its Vegas counterparts (at least at the middle and high limits), but has somewhat compensated that by making free food available.

This took place in their "top section" room, which houses 20-40 limit games and above, as well as 10-20 NL and above.

Prior to this year, Commerce had a players club card, but the benefits were laughably bad. You earned 25 cents per hour, which could only be used for food or other items from the casino. Most high limit players didn't bother, with the food being free anyway.

Starting in 2015, games from 20-40 to 60-120 will earn $1.50 per hour, and 100-200 and above will earn $2 per hour. Not sure what they are doing for the NL games, but probably something similar. However, there will be no more free food starting March 1, so overall this deal is bad for the players.

Yet another reason to hate Commerce.

As if the corrupt staff, angle-shooting, and perpetually angry regulars weren't enough...

[Dan Druff]

On Twitter, Mike "Schneids" Schneider brought up an interesting point.

He said that the waiters and waitresses will be making a lot less in tips, as most high limit players "auto tipped $5 because the food was free", which was true.

However, I don't feel too bad for them. I found that the Commerce servers were getting arrogant and entitled when it came to tipping, for exactly this reason.

This is because they aren't traditional "servers". They don't come around to check on you. They don't let you order appetizers and come back later to see what you want for your main course. They don't refill your drinks.

They are just order takers and delivery people. They drop your food off on your tray, and that's the last you see of them.

Therefore, they honestly shouldn't be tipped like regular servers, and in fact don't do much more work than someone working at the takeout counter of a restaurant. The only difference is that they do more walking.

I'm not saying these people shouldn't be tipped. However, when I would tip $3-$4 for a meal (again, which they bring to me all at once), I would rarely get a "thank you", and in fact would often notice them making a face like I was a cheapskate. This was because they got used to the $5/person from many others in high limit (and sometimes more), so I looked like a jerk for giving $3-$4, even though that was generous on an absolute basis.

So F them.

[lol wow]

what part of your brain is like you know what the 1 dollar i save to tip 4 instead of just giving a 5 is worth it to me

[lol wow]

like its not even a value proposition cuz you know you get shit on for doing it like where does this come from its just idiotic behavior dangiel hand the guy 5 for bringing you a free sandwich realize that hes clocking in driving to work paying rent in california and youre holding onto that extra dollar is so dumb in the grand scheme of things

[Jayjami]

If true, then I will just play limit hold'em at Hustler, Hawaiian Gardens, and maybe the Bike. I imagine many of the other mid limit players will as well. The players who play stud, PLO, ect. might be SOL, because there are not other games around town that I am aware of.

BTW, I usually tip $3 for a comped meal at Commerce. Never felt that the wait staff was anything but appreciative. Also, Commerce has always comped my wife's meal when she is watching me play.

[matos]

I think they reverse this because of the backlash from the players, or losing games to the other California cardrooms.

[Dan Druff]

like its not even a value proposition cuz you know you get shit on for doing it like where does this come from its just idiotic behavior dangiel hand the guy 5 for bringing you a free sandwich realize that hes clocking in driving to work paying rent in california and youre holding onto that extra dollar is so dumb in the grand scheme of things

I gave $5 a few times, then I thought better of it.

Why?

Not because I'm a greedy Jew, but just because I decided $5 was ridiculous. They are taking a food order and bringing it to me. The food itself is worth like $15 tops, often only $10. They are serving a ton of different people per hour, since it doesn't require to spend a lot of time with each person. In fact, often they are bringing out others' food on the same tray as mine, which is fine, but these people are making a lot here compared to other low-wage Commerce workers. Again, they aren't the same as restaurant servers who wait on me throughout the entire meal.

I don't see the food as "free". I see it as Commerce itself (NOT the server) giving it to me as part of the exorbitant rake I'm paying. Just because I'm not paying for the food directly doesn't mean that it's actually "free".

So after giving $5 a few times, I thought about it and said, "You know what? $3 is very generous for what's being done here, and I'll make it $4 when I order a few things at once, but that's where I stop."

Why? Because I'm already tipping more than enough, and you have to draw the line somewhere.

And if you feel guilty that these people need the money, save the extra $1 and hand it to the janitors/porters you see around the place, as they make a LOT less, and work harder than most servers.

[Dan Druff]

I think they reverse this because of the backlash from the players, or losing games to the other California cardrooms.

You would think that, but I bet they don't.

Poker rooms tend to be clueless like this. They get set in their ways, and often will shoot themselves in the foot, refusing to believe that any of their policies or actions could be self-defeating. In fact, this sort of thinking is what destroyed the once-thriving Hollywood Park room, and allowed Commerce to rise up and basically take their place at the top of the LA-area poker heap.

Commerce has been losing business for awhile now (they're still #1, though), and they are not modifying anything to get that business back. They still delude themselves into believing it's 2006, and that people will keep playing regardless of what they do.

Here is an anecdote I like to tell regarding the cluelessness and inflexibility of poker rooms.

The Hustler, also in the LA area, tried to get a 50-100 game going some years back. At the time I lived in Vegas, but Hustler was closer to where I would stay when I would come to CA, so I preferred the place over Commerce. It's also nicer and lower-key than Commerce. However, they didn't run anything above 25-50, so I didn't go there often. I was thrilled to hear they were trying out 50-100.

However, the game was quickly dying because they were making 50-100 a rake game instead of a time charge. I tried to explain to them that the comparable game at Commerce -- 60-120 -- had a time charge. I tried to explain that shorthanded games are FAR more expensive for the player if it's a rake, but they didn't care. I kept repeating, "Nobody is going to break the habit of playing 60-120 at Commerce if you're going to charge far more rake over here for your new game."

I was dismissed like I didn't know what I was talking about. Most of the other players expressed the same concern. They were also ignored.

Within a few weeks, there was no more 50-100 game, due to "lack of players".

Hmmm... wonder why that happened.

[Dan Druff]

What's also funny is that Commerce went from one extreme to the other on this.

They've always been extremely liberal when it comes to giving free food in the top section. Basically, if you're in the room, you get free food.

If you're the friend/wife/girlfriend of a seated player, you get free food.

If you're waiting for a game, you get free food.

If you're just hanging around in the room and look like you belong, you get free food.

This wasn't the official policy, but that's how it operated since that second room opened in 2002.

I used to encourage Ken Scalir to clean up a bit and go there for the free food (saying he's "waiting"), but it was too far from where he lived to make it worth it. But they totally would have given him free food on a regular basis without question.

So I would totally understand if they clamped down and only gave the free food to seated players, but this is an extreme change the other way. Now players who show up for 5-hour sessions will get a whopping $7.50 to spend on food, which honestly isn't enough. It won't really affect me much, as I tend to show up infrequently and play a long time, so I will probably "earn" more than I'll spend.

[Daly]

The Florida comp situation isn't great either. Palm Beach Kennel Club you get ZERO. Hard Rock Hollywood (an hour away) you can get a $1/hr. The Isle is the best as with a select card (semi easy to get) you get $1.44/hr.....

That being said last week I stumbled across a guy while playing 20/40 HOSE. He had a deal with the poker manager where if you played 20/40 for 5 hours plus and then loosely agreed to make sure you play in the game from time to time he would get you upgraded to a platinum card.... and at platinum you get $4 an hour! I guess he is school buddies with the GM of the property and he wants to try and build a 20/40 HOSE clientele.

Took me 3 months to get $90 in comps at the Isle. In the past two weeks I earned another $72.

[duped_samaritan]

Someones gotta kill it...even if it's a plant.

[FRANKRIZZO]

lol

[Jayjami]

lol

Typical Commerce angle shot. No way the guy is folding on the turn to the all-in bet given the pot and stack sizes. This is on the dealer however. She should have confirmed the call before the river card was exposed.

[FRANKRIZZO]

lol

Typical Commerce angle shot. No way the guy is folding on the turn to the all-in bet given the pot and stack sizes. This is on the dealer however. She should have confirmed the call before the river card was exposed.

All the betting was in on the turn and guy flipped over his cards on the river which makes it so lol. That was why guy was saying guy still has cards why didn't he muck them on turn. Floor and dealer were clueless as could be.

[Crowe Diddly]

speaking of card rooms and food...

[thesparten]

Who is John Gault?

[Jayjami]

Went to Commerce last night. It is official. No more free food, at least in the 20/40 and 40/80 sections. Had to use my players card, which has $20 of credit. They are even charging for bottled water!

I let the floor know I was not happy and that I would be playing more often at Hustler and Hawaiian Gardens. He told me that all the card rooms will be charging in the near future. I doubt that is true. The room was pretty quiet. Only 2 20/40 and 3 40/80 limit Hold'em games going.

[Sanlmar]

Went to Commerce last night. It is official. No more free food, at least in the 20/40 and 40/80 sections. Had to use my players card, which has $20 of credit. They are even charging for bottled water!

I let the floor know I was not happy and that I would be playing more often at Hustler and Hawaiian Gardens. He told me that all the card rooms will be charging in the near future. I doubt that is true. The room was pretty quiet. Only 2 20/40 and 3 40/80 limit Hold'em games going.

BNP posted a "Live at the Bike" video featuring StickyRice.

Couple of things stuck with me after skimming it.

One of the announcers was talking about the Commerce being a ghost town now.

Another was paying a monthly $9.95 fee to watch a $3/5 NL game with a bunch of locals. Was that the best game spread - dear jesus? It did have StickyRice and he clowned it up a bit but WTF has poker become?

Just as online poker had a lot of wretched excess that has disappeared - you are witnessing the end of the fun comps in brick and mortar.

The big casino companies are pretty fucked up right now. As stupid as they were with over building etc - some will swing too far the other way (like charging for water).

If playing at Walmart is their model, just let us game online.

[snake_in_the_ass]

You can still get free food playing $1000+/hand paigow poker. Todd - next time you are at the commerce, I will get you a free plate.

[thesparten]

like its not even a value proposition cuz you know you get shit on for doing it like where does this come from its just idiotic behavior dangiel hand the guy 5 for bringing you a free sandwich realize that hes clocking in driving to work paying rent in california and youre holding onto that extra dollar is so dumb in the grand scheme of things

I gave $5 a few times, then I thought better of it.

Why?

Not because I'm a greedy Jew, but just because I decided $5 was ridiculous. They are taking a food order and bringing it to me. The food itself is worth like $15 tops, often only $10. They are serving a ton of different people per hour, since it doesn't require to spend a lot of time with each person. In fact, often they are bringing out others' food on the same tray as mine, which is fine, but these people are making a lot here compared to other low-wage Commerce workers. Again, they aren't the same as restaurant servers who wait on me throughout the entire meal.

I don't see the food as "free". I see it as Commerce itself (NOT the server) giving it to me as part of the exorbitant rake I'm paying. Just because I'm not paying for the food directly doesn't mean that it's actually "free".

So after giving $5 a few times, I thought about it and said, "You know what? $3 is very generous for what's being done here, and I'll make it $4 when I order a few things at once, but that's where I stop."

Why? Because I'm already tipping more than enough, and you have to draw the line somewhere.

And if you feel guilty that these people need the money, save the extra $1 and hand it to the janitors/porters you see around the place, as they make a LOT less, and work harder than most servers.

When the food is free all you have to do is tip 20percent of the value of the food......