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Thread: Card counter sues Planet Hollywood over detention, confiscated casino chips

  1. #1

    Card counter sues Planet Hollywood over detention, confiscated casino chips

    Card counter sues Planet Hollywood over detention, confiscated casino chips
    http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/la...d-casino-chips

    A professional gambler from New Jersey claims employees at Planet Hollywood Resort illegally detained him and stole nearly $5,000 in casino chips after they noticed him counting cards in June 2013.

    The gambler, Ross Miller, filed a lawsuit against the Las Vegas resort in Clark County District Court on Monday, the same day he filed a case against the resort’s owner, Caesars Entertainment Corp., in New Jersey Superior Court.

    In the New Jersey case, Miller also claims he was illegally detained at three Caesars properties in Atlantic City in 2013.

    “The casinos in general have this negative stigma,” Miller said in a telephone interview Thursday. “They dislike professional advantage players.”

    Miller, 28, said card counters and other advantage players are not cheaters, but casinos often treat them as such. Card counting is simply a “playing strategy,” he said.

    Caesars spokesman Gary Thompson said the company does not comment on pending litigation.

    Las Vegas attorney Robert Nersesian is representing Miller in the Nevada case, but the plaintiff is representing himself in the New Jersey case.

    Miller first was detained on May 24, 2013, at Caesars Atlantic City, and he was acquitted of disorderly conduct a year later, the New Jersey complaint says. Miller believes that details of that incident, including his identity, were shared throughout the company.

    The Nevada lawsuit indicates that Miller was card counting at blackjack on June 20, 2013, when he saw that he was being watched and decided to leave. He approached the Planet Hollywood casino cage to cash his $4,975 in chips.

    According to the lawsuit, cage personnel took the chips and requested Miller’s identification. Miller refused.

    When the personnel wouldn’t cash Miller’s chips, he tried to contact the Nevada Gaming Control board, but he lacked cell service at that location.

    The lawsuit claims Planet Hollywood employees had a duty at that point to contact the board themselves. Instead, a security officer demanded Miller’s identification, and Miller again refused to provide it.

    According to the lawsuit, the officer then told Miller to leave or face charges for trespassing. As Miller began to depart, he stopped to take a picture of his chips.

    Miller then “was grabbed and handcuffed by Planet Hollywood personnel,” the lawsuit alleges.

    Casino employees summoned Las Vegas police, who then initiated a criminal case against Miller, according to the lawsuit. The criminal case ended in Miller’s favor, the document states, but he has yet to get his money back.

    The lawsuit’s claims include theft, false imprisonment, defamation, battery and malicious prosecution. Miller suffered cuts and bruises when he was detained, according to the document.


    According to the New Jersey lawsuit, Miller also was assaulted and detained in July 2013 at Harrah’s Atlantic City and in November 2013 at the Showboat in Atlantic City. Both times, Miller was charged with disorderly conduct, but the charges later were withdrawn.

    “In these particular cases, the stuff they did, it really hurt me,” Miller told the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

    Miller, who lives in Howell, N.J., said he spent thousands of dollars defending himself against the criminal charges.
    Has Dan Druff counted cards at Planet Hollywood in Las Vegas lately?

    New Rules for Card Counters at Caesars properties...we'll give you the chips...but we cut off your arm.


    Maybe Caesars Entertainment doesn't have the money to pay him?

    Good luck getting any money after Caesars declares Bankruptcy.



  2. #2
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I am wondering if there's more to this story.

    If it's as Miller said, it looks terrible for PH.

    However, it's very standard for casinos (especially big ones) to let you cash out after being backed off for counting, and in fact it's required by law.

    I am wondering if his refusal to give ID complicated the situation, and some idiot security guards took it too far. They might have demanded the ID with the claim that they need to know whether he's already barred from the property.

    You are not required to show ID when booted for card counting. However, since Miller is only 28, they could have hid behind the "concern" that he was under 21. Otherwise they cannot force him.

    Many years ago, I was surrounded by security guards right after I cashed out of a medium-sized casino (not a CET property). They asked for my ID. I refused. They asked why, and I said, "Because it's my right not to, but I will leave right now if you want."

    They then read me the "trespass act" and escorted me off property. They did allow me to go get the other people who came with me (non-counters), who were still at the tables, which they didn't have to do.

    I do wonder what they would have done if I hadn't cashed out, and refused the ID.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I just noticed that he claims THREE Caesars properties in New Jersey detained him in 2013.

    This sounds fishy.

    In New Jersey, it is illegal for them to eject counters. So his stories are especially surprising. I have personally experienced the "reaction" to being caught counting in New Jersey, and that was simply to change the game to cutting off 3 of the 6 decks, making it unbeatable. They also "1-handed" me, saying I couldn't bet more than one hand at the time. But that was it. No backing off (they can't), no ID requests, no hassle.

    Seems to me like this kid might be picking fights at casinos and then suing them.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I do wonder what they would have done if I hadn't cashed out, and refused the ID.

    Druff: I cannot speak for the casino you were kicked out of, but I have a good friend who was kicked out of a CET property in Vegas in early 2014. Blackjack counting and another advantage angle. They read this person the Trespass warning riot act, and asked this person to cash out the chips in his/her possession before leaving. No ID shown. No fuss, no muss, all done.

    I think the general rule is that casino chips are technically the property of the casino, just as players' cards are. I'm not 100% solid on the chips & player cards being casino property rule, but I've seen and know several verified cases where this unwritten rule was used as a pretense for trained casino security to do various undesirable things towards the player being ejected. (Nothing strictly illegal, but rather to trick more critical information from the player before ejection from the casino.)
    Last edited by Benford; 01-11-2015 at 01:10 PM.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benford View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I do wonder what they would have done if I hadn't cashed out, and refused the ID.

    Druff: I cannot speak for the casino you were kicked out of, but I have a good friend who was kicked out of a CET property in Vegas in early 2014. Blackjack counting and another advantage angle. They read this person the Trespass warning riot act, and asked this person to cash out the chips in his/her possession before leaving. No ID shown. No fuss, no muss, all done.

    I think the general rule is that casino chips are technically the property of the casino, just as players' cards are. I'm not 100% solid on the chips & player cards being casino property rule, but I've seen and know several verified cases where this unwritten rule was used as a pretense for trained casino security to do various undesirable things towards the player being ejected. (Nothing strictly illegal, but rather to trick more critical information from the player before ejection from the casino.)
    So maybe they asked him for ID in order to cash out, hiding behind the "we're not sure you're 21" thing, and he refused. And then an argument broke out, and they arrested him for disorderly conduct.

    I bet it's something like that.

    I haven't been ejected from any CET properties for counting (I don't do it there), but other properties have always let me cash out.

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