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Thread: Card counter illegally detained at Maryland Live Casino, forced to give up ID

  1. #1
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Card counter illegally detained at Maryland Live Casino, forced to give up ID

    Here is a video (with sound) of the card counter in the "back room", being pressured by Maryland cops to give his ID to the casino, under threat of taking him to the police station and force-IDing him through fingerprints if he refuses:





    Here is a short, no-sound video of the same card counter being forcefully backroomed:




    The cops are full of shit. Nowhere in the US (including Maryland) is it required that you have ID while at a casino. The casino does have a right to kick you out for any reason (including failing to show ID), but they cannot force you to present ID, nor can the police do it on their behalf.

    The only exception is if the police are placing you under arrest and need to identify you, but in this case they were not arresting him or charging him with anything, as he hadn't done anything illegal.

    In case some of you are wondering why he didn't just show ID and be done with it, be aware that casinos share information on card counters, so you really don't want your name in the system that way.

    I was once asked to show ID after being caught counting in a Vegas casino. They asked why I wouldn't show them my ID, and I answered, "Because it's my right not to." To their credit, they accepted that answer, though they did ban me from the property. It is possible to ban someone without having their name, simply doing it by picture.

    The casino is also NOT supposed to forcefully backroom customers unless they are suspected of cheating, and card counting does not fall under the "cheating" heading here.

    I hope this guy sues the casino and the police for this and wins a lot from them.

  2. #2
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    Another article:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...r-civil-right/

    I was just at this casino a few months ago for a couple of days although I stuck to poker exclusively. I heard they have pretty high table minimums.

    I also read somewhere this guy was down $2800 when the pulled him off the tables. They had no reason to get his ID to identify him because the casino sent a limo to his house to pick him up. They already knew who he was.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bukowski72 View Post
    Another article:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...r-civil-right/

    I was just at this casino a few months ago for a couple of days although I stuck to poker exclusively. I heard they have pretty high table minimums.

    I also read somewhere this guy was down $2800 when the pulled him off the tables. They had no reason to get his ID to identify him because the casino sent a limo to his house to pick him up. They already knew who he was.
    You'd think he would have mentioned that to the cops when they were demanding his ID. It's possible they sent him the limo without knowing his name, though.

    It is very possible he was down $2800. Many of the card counter ejections occur when the counter is down, yet not tilting. Casinos will often tolerate counters, waiting to see if they tilt (play -EV strategy) when losing. However, if the casino witnesses you losing, keeping calm, and starting to make a comeback, they will eject you. They will also eject you if you sit down and immediately start winning, provided they realize you're winning through counting.

    Also, counters are more willing to leave the table quickly if they jump out to a quick win, making it less likely they will be ejected in those sessions.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Here is a video (with sound) of the card counter in the "back room", being pressured by Maryland cops to give his ID to the casino, under threat of taking him to the police station and force-IDing him through fingerprints if he refuses:

    It is interesting to note the victim likely activated his smartphone voice recorder and synchronized the audio with the surveillance video for his YouTube video. One can hear the movement of the victim's recording device at times during the interrogation.
    Sharing my love of card counting and casinos without charge. https://twitter.com/Casino_Examiner

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSTAT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Here is a video (with sound) of the card counter in the "back room", being pressured by Maryland cops to give his ID to the casino, under threat of taking him to the police station and force-IDing him through fingerprints if he refuses:

    It is interesting to note the victim likely activated his smartphone voice recorder and synchronized the audio with the surveillance video for his YouTube video. One can hear the movement of the victim's recording device at times during the interrogation.
    I was wondering how the sound was so clear. You're probably right. Interesting.

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