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Thread: NJ Poker Player Douglas Conway (Unifro/FatalFlaws online) is a Scammer

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    Angry NJ Poker Player Douglas Conway (Unifro/FatalFlaws online) is a Scammer

    I have been putting a lot of effort into collecting a 6 month old debt from Douglas Conway. (FatalFlaws on 2p2 and Unifro/FatalFlaws on New Jersey sites) I’m making this post because I believe he freerolled a $1,000 bet without any intention of paying last April and then proceeded to waste a ridiculous amount of my time and energy.

    He seems to think he can twist the situation and convince me that he is actually trying very hard to pay the $1k and the fact that he hasn’t paid yet is my fault.

    I believe he doesn’t have the money and this whole thing is a result of his ego, I have reminded him many times that if the amount was an issue we could work out some payment plan without interest, no problem. I wouldn’t be making this post if he admitted he was broke and would start paying $40 a month or whatever. Here’s one example of his reactions when I mention him possibly not being able to afford it.

    “lol, are you really dumb enough to believe that I don't have 1k or are you just trolling? I tend to think you're trolling”


    -The bet was whether Doug Conway or George Cicak (Cicakman) would have have a higher total amount won on NJ Partypoker during an online series last April (NJCOP) for $1k. Only main events that they both played counted. Cicak made the bet and I took some the action. George won.

    -Doug lives in Cherry Hill ~60 miles from Atlantic City. Both George and I live over 120 miles from AC without a car. (when I’m not catching a ride with a friend, its usually bus out of Manhattan)


    End of April

    During the last weekend of the series, Doug offered to call off the bet. When George declined, Doug said that he could meet up that Monday at Borgata to settle the bet. George wasn’t able to make the trip that day and figured they could work something else out later.. (all of this was prior to the bet being determined)

    Doug later uses this as his first example of proof that he is not broke, or a scammer, and that George and I are the ones making things difficult.


    May-June


    Doug disappeared without notice immediately following the series for about two months. No attempts of communication, no activity on any forums or poker sites.

    About two months later (around the last week of June) he returned and provided the following explanation after I called him a scammer:

    “I have been out of the country for the past two months. Before I left, however, I offered to meet at the borgata (again, I already told you this). So, no I am not a scammer or whatever else you were implying I am.”

    July

    George handled communication with Doug while in Vegas for the WSOP. Requested the money be sent via paypal or bank transfer. It didn’t happen. Not much effort was put into either collecting or paying the debt.


    August


    Around August I became more and more involved and George was ready to write it off as a scam and be done with it.

    Doug understood I was financially interested, and after confirming this with George, began working with me to figure out a way to get either George or myself the money primarily through pms on 2p2. All of the quotes I’m going to include are directly from these pms.


    I believe he doesn’t have the money so one of the first things I told him, and also reminded him of many times after is that if the amount was an issue we could work out some payment plan no problem. I wouldn’t be making this post if he admitted he was broke and would start paying $40 a month or whatever. Here’s one example of his reactions when I mention him possibly not being able to afford it.

    “lol, are you really dumb enough to believe that I don't have 1k or are you just trolling? I tend to think you're trolling”

    After many pms Dougs it became clear he was going to be making this very difficult.

    He refused to send the money in any way- no bank deposit, no bank wire or transfer of any sort, no check by mail, no western union nothing. I suggested every option I could think of - he claims it would put him at risk to deposit or send the money to either of us since he wouldn’t know whose bank account it really was and would be responsible if we did something illegal. (wtf)

    I’ve also offered to pay any fees from the balance.

    Some of his explanations regarding not sending money:

    “Depositing money into an unknown bank account is not my idea of secure, especially considering I have no way of knowing who that account belongs to and what other things that account may be used for. There are legal implications at play that you obviously do not realize. The issue is not the reliability of the transaction or any doubt that you will receive the funds.”

    “I have had friends that have had many things go wrong with western union transactions, on top of which western union is known to be a method of sending money for people who do not want to go through usual channels for obvious reasons. I am just not comfortable using western union. I think it is reasonable for me to feel this way.”

    “I've explained to you already why i'm not comfortable making a deposit into a random bank account and western union is also shady. Getting to AC is not an issue.”

    “Actually to make a deposit you only need the account number, but that is irrelevant. If I deposit funds into an account that is later found to be used in connection with illegal activities I can be held responsible legally. This is my concern regarding depositing money into a random account. “

    (after I told him I thought he was wrong)

    “Where did you get your law degree from? I know for a fact that this is the case. Banks have this revolutionary thing that watches who comes into the bank and conducts transactions, they're called cameras. Maybe you've heard of them?”

    After realizing he wasn’t budging on this I shifted to finding a time to meet up in AC.

    I constantly asked him work out a date on when we could both be there. This eventually became me begging him to simply tell me any day he would be there and I would work around his schedule.


    September

    Luckily George and I would be there for most of the Borgata Open in September for about 2-3 weeks. He could show up pretty much any time and one of us would be able to meet up.

    Doug thought that it would be unreasonable for him to make it any time during the series because of an online series running on PartyPoker scheduled at the same time (GSSS). He did not find playing at Borgata from a room, or the Online Players Lounge acceptable. (He also did not play every day during the online series and when he did it was mostly $2 and $5 satellites, skipping many events. How convienient.

    “After gss I will be happy to meet up to settle”

    “I will continue to try until it's paid. I can settle as soon as it's possible to meet up to settle. For me that is after gss.”

    “Sometime shortly after gss I can meet, surely you can understand that I cannot give an exact date at this moment.”

    So the day after the series ended I sent him a message and he told me...

    “GSS ended yesterday, seriously... I just spent the last 14 days playing non stop poker, and fyi I did just fine. Pls give me some time to decompress.”


    October

    I already felt like an idiot for letting things go on so long, so this is when I started threatening to go public and make this post.

    A few days later he sent me this message at noon….

    “If you do any of that I will sue you for libel. I will be at borg today if one of you two clowns wants to come and meet me. I'll be in high limit, shouldn't be too hard to find it's usually pretty dead during the week.”

    I didnt read it untill it was to late to get down there but offered to come down the next day.

    “You said give you a time and a place and I did. Yet again you or glytter can't be there. I guess I will have to try again... I won't be there tomorrow.”

    More threats about what he will do if I call him out publicly:

    “If you do that, not only will I not pay you, but I assure you by the end of it all you will be paying me a significant amount of money in damages. This is not a "silly" threat, if it's one thing I am not short of it's attorneys who like to file "silly" lawsuits. I'll let you know the next time I'm going to be in AC, that's the best I can do.”

    “You do that and you'll regret it big time, I promise you that.”

    “If you make any such post saying that I am a scammer or anything to that effect I will not pay. Otherwise I will continue to try to pay. “

    I told him all I needed was a date and 48 hours notice. Any date in the next 2 weeks, and I could be in AC.

    “48 hours in advance lmao, I don't even know where I'll be/what I'll be doing 48 hours in advance. If I don't know, how the hell am I supposed to tell you???”

    As a last effort before posting this, I told him I would be in AC from the 13-15 (earlier this week). If he could meet then, this would all be over. He told me he would let me know. He didn’t sign on again untill the following on the 14th…

    “If you're still going to be in AC on the 16th I could probably make it down there.”

    I responded, telling him I would stay an extra day to meet him. He did not log on or reply untill 7 pm on the 16th. (I believe he assumed I would of been home or on my way home by this point.)

    Entire PM: “midnight in high limit room does that work?”

    Luckily I wasn’t far and able to get there.

    I sat in the empty high limit room from 11:59 pm to 12:30 am like an idiot. Knowing the whole time he wouldn’t show. Sent him a bunch of pissed off pms. Then at 8am this morning I get the following -

    “lol all this nonsense and you don't even show, hilarious...thanks for making me waste 2 hours of my life”

    “I was there, you were not. I don't know what games you're playing here man.”

    So there you have it, my nightmare of a time getting scammed by Douglas Conway, and then stupidly allowing him to waste my time. If I included full pms, it could of been a lot longer.

    I hope he responds so he can tell everyone how I’m really the one thats making it difficult for him to get me the money he owes.

    I doubt he ever was or will pay off the bet, but if he does I will update this thread.

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    Platinum duped_samaritan's Avatar
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    Note - I am assuming Unifro/FatalFlaws is Douglas Conway because he emailed George from an address with that name as the sender. Also, his pocketfives profile lists him as Doug Conway from Cherry Hill, NJ - and I did some research and found a 29 year old Douglas Conway living in Cherry Hill.

    However, he has refused to confirm his name, age or anything else about him. He wouldn't give me a phone number either.

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    Cubic Zirconia
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    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    Note - I am assuming Unifro/FatalFlaws is Douglas Conway because he emailed George from an address with that name as the sender. Also, his pocketfives profile lists him as Doug Conway from Cherry Hill, NJ - and I did some research and found a 29 year old Douglas Conway living in Cherry Hill.

    However, he has refused to confirm his name, age or anything else about him. He wouldn't give me a phone number either.

    Anyone who knows me, knows that I am not a scammer and that 1k is chump change for me. I have no idea where he got the idea that I was broke. In fact, in response to his previous accusations that I was broke, I sat down with $1k at a 5/10 limit stud game that he and I were playing heads up at online. Not to mention the fact that he has seen me cash multiple tournaments for over $1k. I think he saw me playing some freerolls a couple of times and then just assumed that I needed the money or something. Guess what man, sometimes I just play freerolls for laughs or to blow off some steam. The amount of pm's this guy has sent me regarding this borders on harassment. Oh, and not to mention the fact that THIS ISN"T EVEN HIS BET!!! I was there last night at borg around midnight in the high limit room. I even have a friend that I came with that can vouch that I was there. Oh oh and I almost forgot, I have offered to meet up to pay a total of five times including yesterday to pay. And now he says I didn't show and that I'm a scammer. Even if this were true, I would be a welcher not a scammer. A scammer is someone who gets money from someone and then doesn't fulfill an obligation that was promised for that money. Anyone with legal knowledge would understand what I am talking about when I say that depositing money into an unknown bank account is not exactly safe as if the account is later found to have connections to illegal activity, persons depositing money into that account can be held criminally liable. I don't know what this guy's deal is, but I am more than happy to resolve this with the person that I actually made the bet with.

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    Yeah this whole thing is me just fucking with you and not showing up to collect the money for lolz

    The guy that has owed the money for almost 6 months is the victim here obv

    I have so much more interesting stuff to share but gotta run for now.

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    Platinum nunbeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFlaws View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    Note - I am assuming Unifro/FatalFlaws is Douglas Conway because he emailed George from an address with that name as the sender. Also, his pocketfives profile lists him as Doug Conway from Cherry Hill, NJ - and I did some research and found a 29 year old Douglas Conway living in Cherry Hill.

    However, he has refused to confirm his name, age or anything else about him. He wouldn't give me a phone number either.

    Anyone who knows me, knows that I am not a scammer and that 1k is chump change for me. I have no idea where he got the idea that I was broke. In fact, in response to his previous accusations that I was broke, I sat down with $1k at a 5/10 limit stud game that he and I were playing heads up at online. Not to mention the fact that he has seen me cash multiple tournaments for over $1k. I think he saw me playing some freerolls a couple of times and then just assumed that I needed the money or something. Guess what man, sometimes I just play freerolls for laughs or to blow off some steam. The amount of pm's this guy has sent me regarding this borders on harassment. Oh, and not to mention the fact that THIS ISN"T EVEN HIS BET!!! I was there last night at borg around midnight in the high limit room. I even have a friend that I came with that can vouch that I was there. Oh oh and I almost forgot, I have offered to meet up to pay a total of five times including yesterday to pay. And now he says I didn't show and that I'm a scammer. Even if this were true, I would be a welcher not a scammer. A scammer is someone who gets money from someone and then doesn't fulfill an obligation that was promised for that money. Anyone with legal knowledge would understand what I am talking about when I say that depositing money into an unknown bank account is not exactly safe as if the account is later found to have connections to illegal activity, persons depositing money into that account can be held criminally liable. I don't know what this guy's deal is, but I am more than happy to resolve this with the person that I actually made the bet with.
    I don't have a dog in this fight but how in the fuck are you going to be held criminally liable by depositing money in someone's bank account? That just sounds like a bullshit copout

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    Funny-haha

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    (refuses to send a dime in any way when he owes the money)

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Fatal Flaws aka Doug:

    I am the owner of this site. My name is Todd Witteles. I have been in poker for 14 years, and have never once been accused of scamming or any other form of mishandling of bets or money.

    I would like to volunteer to be an intermediary to accept the money. I'm pretty sure both duped_samaritan and George would be willing to state publicly that they are okay with this.

    I have several major bank accounts, Paypal, and will even be happy to receive a check or money order in the mail from you.

    How about you arrange to send ME the $1000, and I will make sure it gets to the right person.

    This is not a joke. If you are serious about settling the matter, please strongly consider doing this (or just find a way to immediately pay these guys directly).

    Furthermore, you can also deposit cash into a bank account without giving your identification. Just walk into a bank, say, "I want to deposit this cash into this account number for this person's name", and they will take it without question or identification. I know this for certain because I have a friend who does this for me frequently, when he needs to pay back loans I've made to him.

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    Thanks Todd I appreciate it, hopefully he will agree to deal with you and clear his name. I think you guys actually have a little in common (huge nits in life)

    I will be 100% transparent, offer access to my 2p2 account, to confirm all pms I'm posting are not fabricated.

    Also ftr, before Doug claims this is a setup or something - I've never met Todd, and I've only spoke to him once on his show over the phone and had a few private messages, none of which were related to this issue. I have listened to most of his podcasts and think he has always dealt with this kind of thing very fairly.

    This should paint a little more accurate picture of how things happened last night at borgata.

    Almost two weeks ago I told him I was planning on making this whole thing public. I also told him that I was planning on being in AC from October 13-15.

    His reply on 10/8

    "I'm not sure what I'm doing on 13-15 yet, it's possible that could work for me. I'll let you know."

    Here's every pm sent between October 8th and this morning when he claimed that I was the one who didn't show up...not him. I would be happy to give Todd access to my 2p2 account to verify anything. He may be able to check as well that I posted OP from Harrahs AC this morning (across the street from borgata) Anything in [brackets] is added commentary.

     

    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-14 20:34
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "I'm not sure what I'm doing on 13-15 yet, it's possible that could work for me. I'll let you know."

    Thanks for letting me know!
    [me being sarcastic (it's the 14th)]




    To : stoopmonkey
    Date : 2014-10-14 22:49
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I wasn't giving you permission, I was merely letting you know what would happen if you did. I will be at the taj on nov. 11 if you want to meet me then. If you're still going to be in AC on the 16th I could probably make it down there.




    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-15 11:06
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I can make tomorrow work was thinking about staying another night anyway. Just let me know what time and exactly where and IL be there. Let's get this done with and move on.


    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-16 02:26
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Would be great if you could let me know so I can decide what I'm doing...


    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-16 09:37
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "If you're still going to be in AC on the 16th I could probably make it down there."

    Well it's the 16th... I'm here...waiting for you to let me know when and where to meet. I see you logged on last night, would of been nice to confirm something at that point. Or any point.


    [after nearly 48 hours without a response, and logging in to find out I would plan on staying one more day, he pms me at 8pm offering to meet at midnight! I am convinced his plan was to wait till he was certain I had gone home before setting a time – so he could add another “I tried to pay you but you weren't available” to his list...but I was still there]

    To : stoopmonkey
    Date : 2014-10-16 19:44
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    midnight in high limit room does that work?



    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-16 21:05
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes. How will I find you exactly.



    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-16 21:06
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm assuming you mean borgata.



    To : stoopmonkey
    Date : 2014-10-16 21:11
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    i'll find you
    [last I heard from him till the next morning]


    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-16 21:11
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I might be wrong, and I hope I am, butGotta point out-

    seems pretty likely you just waited untill i was most likely on my way home to offer to meet up - but I'm actually still here. So if that were your plan, your next step would be coming up with excuse to not meet where yo offered to an hour ago.


    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-16 21:13
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ok, I will be there, Borgata High Limit Room.

    I'll be wearing grey hat red sweatshirt.


    ================================================== ==============================
    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-16 21:59
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Let me know if you're there any earlier and I'll head over, otherwise please confirm midnight, high stakes area of borgata poker room.

    [He logged into 2p2 at 10:22 for the last time that night]


    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-16 23:38
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    About to jump in a cab to borgata, really hoping you dont make me look like a sucker.


    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-16 23:38
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'll sit at an empty table.


    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-16 23:58
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm here no games running in high limit room sitting at empty table at entrance.


    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-17 00:11
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Really ****ed up if you're no show, refuse to give phone #, refuse to send money etc.


    To : FatalFlaws
    Date : 2014-10-17 00:33
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well been sitting here for 30 minutes.

    Really don't understand why you would pull all. T hi s bull **** wasting my time and motivating me to make sure everyone knows the way you behave.

    I'll be playing cash or back at Harrahs for the rest of the night, you have till 6 am to send me a pm and make this right by telling me the truth.

    Do not waste another second of my time.




    [Next morning, and he tries to play the victim once again. WTF How can he possibly imagine this would end? I just don't get it – could it be possible that he finds a way to believe his own lies instantly or something? Multiple personalities or something maybe? ]


    To : stoopmonkey
    Date : 2014-10-17 08:49
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    lol all this nonsense and you don't even show, hilarious...thanks for making me waste 2 hours of my life

    ================================================== ==============================

    To : stoopmonkey
    Date : 2014-10-17 08:50
    Title : Re: NJCOP Bet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I was there, you were not. I don't know what games you're playing here man


    Later after i sent him link to this thread:

    bull**** you were there, it may have been a few minutes early or late, i don't know that it was exactly midnight. it was around 1145 when i pulled into the garage at borg. but you were obviously not there. i thought you said you were waiting at a table at the entrance? now all of a sudden you were waiting in the high limit room?




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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Furthermore, you can also deposit cash into a bank account without giving your identification. Just walk into a bank, say, "I want to deposit this cash into this account number for this person's name", and they will take it without question or identification. I know this for certain because I have a friend who does this for me frequently, when he needs to pay back loans I've made to him.
    Also, I already explained this to him. His response:

    Where did you get your law degree from? I know for a fact that this is the case. Banks have this revolutionary thing that watches who comes into the bank and conducts transactions, they're called cameras. Maybe you've heard of them?

  11. #11
    Cubic Zirconia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Fatal Flaws aka Doug:

    I am the owner of this site. My name is Todd Witteles. I have been in poker for 14 years, and have never once been accused of scamming or any other form of mishandling of bets or money.

    I would like to volunteer to be an intermediary to accept the money. I'm pretty sure both duped_samaritan and George would be willing to state publicly that they are okay with this.

    I have several major bank accounts, Paypal, and will even be happy to receive a check or money order in the mail from you.

    How about you arrange to send ME the $1000, and I will make sure it gets to the right person.

    This is not a joke. If you are serious about settling the matter, please strongly consider doing this (or just find a way to immediately pay these guys directly).

    Furthermore, you can also deposit cash into a bank account without giving your identification. Just walk into a bank, say, "I want to deposit this cash into this account number for this person's name", and they will take it without question or identification. I know this for certain because I have a friend who does this for me frequently, when he needs to pay back loans I've made to him.
    Hello Todd,

    No offense, but I don't know you. I would not be comfortable handing over $1k to a complete stranger. As for depositing cash into a bank account, I have already outlined why I am not comfortable doing this above. Whether you show ID or not, the bank will have a record on camera of who deposited the money into the account. Then, as I explained above, if that same account is found to be used in connection with illegal activity, persons found to have deposited money into that account can be held criminally liable. This is a legal fact, I am not just making this up. Me and Finally agreed to meet last night at borg, I was there, he was not. I have no further interest in settling a debt with anyone other than the person that I made this bet with initially, in whatever way that we can both agree to. Also, I understand that this is your site, but I am only responding to this thread in response to finally posting on here that I am a scammer. I don't see how this is any of your business personally other than two people posting on your forums.

     
    Comments
      
      1marley1: def a scammer
      
      nunbeater: pay or gtfo bitch
      
      JimAfternoon: lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFlaws View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Fatal Flaws aka Doug:

    I am the owner of this site. My name is Todd Witteles. I have been in poker for 14 years, and have never once been accused of scamming or any other form of mishandling of bets or money.

    I would like to volunteer to be an intermediary to accept the money. I'm pretty sure both duped_samaritan and George would be willing to state publicly that they are okay with this.

    I have several major bank accounts, Paypal, and will even be happy to receive a check or money order in the mail from you.

    How about you arrange to send ME the $1000, and I will make sure it gets to the right person.

    This is not a joke. If you are serious about settling the matter, please strongly consider doing this (or just find a way to immediately pay these guys directly).

    Furthermore, you can also deposit cash into a bank account without giving your identification. Just walk into a bank, say, "I want to deposit this cash into this account number for this person's name", and they will take it without question or identification. I know this for certain because I have a friend who does this for me frequently, when he needs to pay back loans I've made to him.
    Hello Todd,

    No offense, but I don't know you. I would not be comfortable handing over $1k to a complete stranger. As for depositing cash into a bank account, I have already outlined why I am not comfortable doing this above. Whether you show ID or not, the bank will have a record on camera of who deposited the money into the account. Then, as I explained above, if that same account is found to be used in connection with illegal activity, persons found to have deposited money into that account can be held criminally liable. This is a legal fact, I am not just making this up. Me and Finally agreed to meet last night at borg, I was there, he was not. I have no further interest in settling a debt with anyone other than the person that I made this bet with initially, in whatever way that we can both agree to. Also, I understand that this is your site, but I am only responding to this thread in response to finally posting on here that I am a scammer. I don't see how this is any of your business personally other than two people posting on your forums.

    FTR my screen name in NJ is "finally", thats who he's referring to.

    Is it possible he believes what he's saying?

    FatalFlaws wtf is wrong with you.

    You seriously think after not showing up to pay last night and handling the situation the way you did, the best move is to just tell me you were there and I wasn't?

    Go with car trouble or something next time idiot.

    There's a lot more to Douglas Conway than I know, but I am definitely find out wtf his deal is. Not because of the 1k as much as all this bullshit.

  13. #13
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFlaws View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Fatal Flaws aka Doug:

    I am the owner of this site. My name is Todd Witteles. I have been in poker for 14 years, and have never once been accused of scamming or any other form of mishandling of bets or money.

    I would like to volunteer to be an intermediary to accept the money. I'm pretty sure both duped_samaritan and George would be willing to state publicly that they are okay with this.

    I have several major bank accounts, Paypal, and will even be happy to receive a check or money order in the mail from you.

    How about you arrange to send ME the $1000, and I will make sure it gets to the right person.

    This is not a joke. If you are serious about settling the matter, please strongly consider doing this (or just find a way to immediately pay these guys directly).

    Furthermore, you can also deposit cash into a bank account without giving your identification. Just walk into a bank, say, "I want to deposit this cash into this account number for this person's name", and they will take it without question or identification. I know this for certain because I have a friend who does this for me frequently, when he needs to pay back loans I've made to him.
    Hello Todd,

    No offense, but I don't know you. I would not be comfortable handing over $1k to a complete stranger. As for depositing cash into a bank account, I have already outlined why I am not comfortable doing this above. Whether you show ID or not, the bank will have a record on camera of who deposited the money into the account. Then, as I explained above, if that same account is found to be used in connection with illegal activity, persons found to have deposited money into that account can be held criminally liable. This is a legal fact, I am not just making this up. Me and Finally agreed to meet last night at borg, I was there, he was not. I have no further interest in settling a debt with anyone other than the person that I made this bet with initially, in whatever way that we can both agree to. Also, I understand that this is your site, but I am only responding to this thread in response to finally posting on here that I am a scammer. I don't see how this is any of your business personally other than two people posting on your forums.
    You are incorrect.

    You can only be held criminally liable if they can link your deposit with an intent to fund criminal activity.

    For example, let's say I e-mailed you, "Hey, I want to rob a bank next week, but can't afford a gun. Can you put $600 in my account so I can buy one?" If you agreed and then put $600 in my account, and later the police found our messages back and forth discussing what I would do with the $600, then you would be criminally liable.

    But let's say you just decided to be nice and put $600 in my account because you like my radio show and wanted to show your appreciation. And then I go take out the $600 and buy a gun to rob a bank with it. You could NOT be held liable, as you were not knowingly funding criminal activity. It is absurd to say that you bear responsibility for what someone does with money after you gave it to them, if you originally gave the money for innocent purposes.

    In this case, there is a long electronic trail of you owing the $1000 for a friendly wager related to poker, so there's no way you could ever be held responsible for what is done with that cash. Even if George subsequently shipped the money to ISIS to fund the next beheading, you would have a reasonable answer in that you owed this money as a result of a bet, and could prove it.

    This is a ridiculous excuse on your part. If you feel I'm wrong, link me to a law on the books which supports your point.

    Regardless, it is painfully obvious to me and everyone that you are dodging this debt. Your excuses are absurd, and this has dragged for months. There are many legal ways to transfer money which put you at ZERO risk, and you refuse. Instead, you keep demanding that the person meet you at a casino during a narrow window of time, and then when they agree, you don't show up.

    Only a complete idiot would believe you are anything but a welcher here.

    Rather than make idiotic excuses, why not just agree to a payment plan and be done with it?

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Also why not just mail the guy a money order for the $1000? Are you afraid that is somehow illegal, too?

    If you were really so paranoid about making payment after losing, to where this was going to be a huge several-months-long production for the other side to get their money, you should have disclosed this before the bet. In my 14 years in poker, I've never once heard anyone use the excuse, "It's illegal to pay you" as a way to stall paying a debt.

    Stop being a welching scumbag and pay up.

     
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      1marley1: druff but fair

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFlaws View Post

    Hello Todd,

    No offense, but I don't know you. I would not be comfortable handing over $1k to a complete stranger. As for depositing cash into a bank account, I have already outlined why I am not comfortable doing this above. Whether you show ID or not, the bank will have a record on camera of who deposited the money into the account. Then, as I explained above, if that same account is found to be used in connection with illegal activity, persons found to have deposited money into that account can be held criminally liable. This is a legal fact, I am not just making this up. Me and Finally agreed to meet last night at borg, I was there, he was not. I have no further interest in settling a debt with anyone other than the person that I made this bet with initially, in whatever way that we can both agree to. Also, I understand that this is your site, but I am only responding to this thread in response to finally posting on here that I am a scammer. I don't see how this is any of your business personally other than two people posting on your forums.
    You are incorrect.

    You can only be held criminally liable if they can link your deposit with an intent to fund criminal activity.

    For example, let's say I e-mailed you, "Hey, I want to rob a bank next week, but can't afford a gun. Can you put $600 in my account so I can buy one?" If you agreed and then put $600 in my account, and later the police found our messages back and forth discussing what I would do with the $600, then you would be criminally liable.

    But let's say you just decided to be nice and put $600 in my account because you like my radio show and wanted to show your appreciation. And then I go take out the $600 and buy a gun to rob a bank with it. You could NOT be held liable, as you were not knowingly funding criminal activity. It is absurd to say that you bear responsibility for what someone does with money after you gave it to them, if you originally gave the money for innocent purposes.

    In this case, there is a long electronic trail of you owing the $1000 for a friendly wager related to poker, so there's no way you could ever be held responsible for what is done with that cash. Even if George subsequently shipped the money to ISIS to fund the next beheading, you would have a reasonable answer in that you owed this money as a result of a bet, and could prove it.

    This is a ridiculous excuse on your part. If you feel I'm wrong, link me to a law on the books which supports your point.

    Regardless, it is painfully obvious to me and everyone that you are dodging this debt. Your excuses are absurd, and this has dragged for months. There are many legal ways to transfer money which put you at ZERO risk, and you refuse. Instead, you keep demanding that the person meet you at a casino during a narrow window of time, and then when they agree, you don't show up.

    Only a complete idiot would believe you are anything but a welcher here.

    Rather than make idiotic excuses, why not just agree to a payment plan and be done with it?
    Regarding the depositing money into unknown accounts, you are not entirely correct. I do not have the time to dig up specific case law to show you, nor do I have the desire. I would simply point out that someone unfamiliar with specific legalities or someone without a bankruptcy law degree is unlikely to have any idea what I am talking about. You are certainly entitled to you opinion that I am dodging, but I can assure I was at the borg last night. As I said, I went down with someone who can also vouch that I was there. The narrow window of time was only for this one instance. I offered at least 4 times before this one to meet up in person, often giving several days advance notice. Regardless, I don't see what interest you personally have in this other than we are posting on your forums.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFlaws View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    You are incorrect.

    You can only be held criminally liable if they can link your deposit with an intent to fund criminal activity.

    For example, let's say I e-mailed you, "Hey, I want to rob a bank next week, but can't afford a gun. Can you put $600 in my account so I can buy one?" If you agreed and then put $600 in my account, and later the police found our messages back and forth discussing what I would do with the $600, then you would be criminally liable.

    But let's say you just decided to be nice and put $600 in my account because you like my radio show and wanted to show your appreciation. And then I go take out the $600 and buy a gun to rob a bank with it. You could NOT be held liable, as you were not knowingly funding criminal activity. It is absurd to say that you bear responsibility for what someone does with money after you gave it to them, if you originally gave the money for innocent purposes.

    In this case, there is a long electronic trail of you owing the $1000 for a friendly wager related to poker, so there's no way you could ever be held responsible for what is done with that cash. Even if George subsequently shipped the money to ISIS to fund the next beheading, you would have a reasonable answer in that you owed this money as a result of a bet, and could prove it.

    This is a ridiculous excuse on your part. If you feel I'm wrong, link me to a law on the books which supports your point.

    Regardless, it is painfully obvious to me and everyone that you are dodging this debt. Your excuses are absurd, and this has dragged for months. There are many legal ways to transfer money which put you at ZERO risk, and you refuse. Instead, you keep demanding that the person meet you at a casino during a narrow window of time, and then when they agree, you don't show up.

    Only a complete idiot would believe you are anything but a welcher here.

    Rather than make idiotic excuses, why not just agree to a payment plan and be done with it?
    Regarding the depositing money into unknown accounts, you are not entirely correct. I do not have the time to dig up specific case law to show you, nor do I have the desire. I would simply point out that someone unfamiliar with specific legalities or someone without a bankruptcy law degree is unlikely to have any idea what I am talking about. You are certainly entitled to you opinion that I am dodging, but I can assure I was at the borg last night. As I said, I went down with someone who can also vouch that I was there. The narrow window of time was only for this one instance. I offered at least 4 times before this one to meet up in person, often giving several days advance notice. Regardless, I don't see what interest you personally have in this other than we are posting on your forums.
    My personal interest is nothing other than the fact that the discussion is taking place in public.

    However, I will admit I am kind of irritated with what definitely appears to be a rationalization for extreme slowpaying.

    Were you at the Borgata last night? Maybe, maybe not. But even if you were, I doubt you made a real effort to find duped samaritan. Maybe you and your friend went there for a different reason, and that gave you the right to technically claim you were there.

    Can't you see how tilting this is for the guys you owe? This has dragged for months. It's just $1000. There are so many ways you can pay someone $1000 in this day and age. Send a check. Send a money order. Do a bank transfer. Give the money to a trusted third party. Send it Western Union.

    You have an excuse for each one of these, and are making unreasonable "meet in person" demands. Even worse, when they do attempt to meet you in person, something "goes wrong" and you two conveniently miss each other.

    It is outrageous that you think it's reasonable to only make payment in person. You didn't disclose that as a term when you made the bet, so why is that a term now?

    You aren't fooling anyone here. Just stop already.

    It's clear you either don't want to pay or can't pay.

    Do the right thing and get this settled now. And by "settled", I don't mean that you demand they make another long trip to the Borgata just to receive another excuse that you couldn't find them.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFlaws View Post

    Regarding the depositing money into unknown accounts, you are not entirely correct. I do not have the time to dig up specific case law to show you, nor do I have the desire. I would simply point out that someone unfamiliar with specific legalities or someone without a bankruptcy law degree is unlikely to have any idea what I am talking about. You are certainly entitled to you opinion that I am dodging, but I can assure I was at the borg last night. As I said, I went down with someone who can also vouch that I was there. The narrow window of time was only for this one instance. I offered at least 4 times before this one to meet up in person, often giving several days advance notice. Regardless, I don't see what interest you personally have in this other than we are posting on your forums.
    My personal interest is nothing other than the fact that the discussion is taking place in public.

    However, I will admit I am kind of irritated with what definitely appears to be a rationalization for extreme slowpaying.

    Were you at the Borgata last night? Maybe, maybe not. But even if you were, I doubt you made a real effort to find duped samaritan. Maybe you and your friend went there for a different reason, and that gave you the right to technically claim you were there.

    Can't you see how tilting this is for the guys you owe? This has dragged for months. It's just $1000. There are so many ways you can pay someone $1000 in this day and age. Send a check. Send a money order. Do a bank transfer. Give the money to a trusted third party. Send it Western Union.

    You have an excuse for each one of these, and are making unreasonable "meet in person" demands. Even worse, when they do attempt to meet you in person, something "goes wrong" and you two conveniently miss each other.

    It is outrageous that you think it's reasonable to only make payment in person. You didn't disclose that as a term when you made the bet, so why is that a term now?

    You aren't fooling anyone here. Just stop already.

    It's clear you either don't want to pay or can't pay.

    Do the right thing and get this settled now. And by "settled", I don't mean that you demand they make another long trip to the Borgata just to receive another excuse that you couldn't find them.
    As I said before I am more than happy to resolve this with the actual person that I made the bet with, not finally (samaritan). I am done dealing with anyone else in this matter. They have my contact info. I can prove I was at borg last night via my comp card. What do you care whether a prop bet is paid or not? I fail to see the connection. Regardless, this will be the last post I make here.

     
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      1marley1: scambag
      
      nunbeater: cunt
      
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  18. #18
    Bronze pavoe's Avatar
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    Pretty ridiculous to say that you even feel uncomfortable transfering to Druff. If you only have the slightest connections to people who are in the poker world for longer than maybe 5 years just ask them about him. They will maybe say that they dislike him but nobody will say that you can not trust him. He is in the top 1% when it comes to trustworthy people in poker!

    And you ask what his motivation is? - what do you care about that? He offers an easy way to settle the bet. No time/money wasted!

    But it is obvious you do not want or can not pay. The way and the tone you respond in (in this thread and before to duped's messages) is extremly tilting. Feels like you believe your absurd justifications for not paying and that you feel you are smarter than everyone else...just FYI, you are not!
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinWright View Post
    Not that I believe your story but who the fuck ever gave you permission to use charitable funds for the good of your cock.

  19. #19
    Platinum duped_samaritan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFlaws View Post
    As I said before I am more than happy to resolve this with the actual person that I made the bet with, not finally (samaritan). I am done dealing with anyone else in this matter. They have my contact info. I can prove I was at borg last night via my comp card. What do you care whether a prop bet is paid or not? I fail to see the connection. Regardless, this will be the last post I make here.
    WTF does more than happy mean to you? Do you see now how ridiculous you're acting?

    Saying you can prove you were there with your comp card, and that there is someone vouche for you doesn't mean anything when you don't actually provide anything.

    Where's this person, who is he?

    How could you possibly prove you were there with your Borgata card? Even if you could prove your card was there (doubtful).

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    Ridiculous that he won't send a money order. No payment of payment safe= no intent on paying.

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