Let's discuss the alleged "salary gender gap" issue in the US

[Dan Druff]

I've read about this for years, but I always felt the issue was being twisted and exaggerated by the media.

The claim is that women make 78% of what men make for the same job.

I felt that this statistic was already highly misleading, because it simply takes a median salary of all full-time female salaries and all full-time male salaries. It does not compare jobs, years of experience, or anything other factors which could shed some important light upon this disparity.

For example, men might simply be gravitating toward the higher paying careers, while women perhaps prefer the lower-paying but more rewarding ones, such as teaching. When it comes time to make the career decision, I can see women choosing based upon what they find appealing, while men choosing based upon their earning potential and ability to support a future family. Indeed, while women frequently have the option to "marry up" to a richer man while still enjoying their lower-paying career, men rarely can manage the same.

Dedication to the job may be another factor. Moving up the corporate ladder often requires throwing yourself into the job and becoming a workaholic. Women with children are hesitant to do this, for obvious reasons (and in fact, their choice not to do this is correct.) Furthermore, women with children might take some years off their careers, placing them behind men of the same age.

I can't link to it, but I saw a study that childless women actually out earn men on average. I think that pretty much kills the gender gap argument right there, but sadly I don't remember where I saw it.

Finally, I don't understand how reasonable people believe that there is some sort of chauvinistic conspiracy to depress women's salaries. It's as if they believe that companies enjoy paying every penny they can to men, but tighten their wallets when it comes to women. That's not how it works. Companies exist to make a profit. Every dollar they pay to employees is a dollar they don't make. In general, companies want to get away with paying the least they can to ALL employees. Now, there's a tradeoff. If they pay too little, the employees will leave and go elsewhere. So basically each company figures out the least they can pay while still keeping employees happy enough with their salary not to look for greener pastures. It doesn't matter if the employees are male or female. They just want to keep as much money in the company coffers as possible.

So why might men make more at the same position?

I'm imagining that it also might have to do with the way men approach their salary compared to women.

I know this is anecdotal, but I've had tons of conversations with female friends which go something like this:

Her: "I work so hard over here and make so little, I really wish they would pay me more for what I do."

Me: "Then why don't you talk to your boss about giving you a raise?"

Her: "Oh, I can't do that. I would be embarrassed asking for more money. Just makes me feel really uncomfortable to talk about things like that. I'm sure they will recognize what I've been doing here and give me a raise on their own."

Me: "No, they probably won't, if it seems like you're fine with your current salary. You need to say something. You can be polite about it, but you need to have this discussion."

Her: "No, no, I can't. Never mind. Thanks for the advice, though."

I think men are more willing to walk into their boss' office and ask for a raise than women are. It seems like women just want this to automatically happen. Or they want some sort of ridiculous legislature passed which mandates people's salaries (which would be a disaster).

I have even seen calls to make everyone's salary public to everyone in the company, which is a horrible idea for so many reasons.

The bottom line is that a company will pay you more if you ask for the money and are worth it. If you are not worth it (at least in their eyes), then you won't get that money. I have a hard time believing that companies are artificially depressing women's pay out of some sexist conspiracy, when in reality they exist to make money and it would be foolish to lose a competent employee due to underpaying them, regardless of their gender.

[gut]

pretty much agree with most of that

[Dan Druff]

Of course Sarah Silverman has to chime in on this:



Sarah's entire comedy routine is, "Look, I'm a woman, and I can be vulgar!"

But sadly this isn't even a comedy routine. She honestly believes that women are owed $30 trillion by society.

[gut]

Silverman is close to the top on my list of horribly annoying and unfunny comedians, yet also close to the top of my list of people i'd want to hatefuck.

[BeerAndPoker]

Females have certain jobs that they can do that are easy as fuck that require little skill sets to make money. I know bartenders and waitresses who have bachelors degrees that don't even use them because they work 3 to 4 nights a week making like $500 each night serving drinks in average type of locations that get heavier traffic on the weekend. Now people can say men could do that too but the fact is most won't and also women are going to get tipped more then men in fields like this.

Now some jobs were designed more for men such as construction,etc... That's not to say a female can't do it or at least attempt to but this is hard work which I respect those who do stuff like this since I'm not one of them.

If we are talking about office or similar based jobs then if both genders do the job of equal standard on the same job level working for the company about the same time then they should get paid equally.

Meeting gender and race balances in certain work forces where they try to balance that stuff out always meant the white male was at the bottom. I don't think this is as much of thing as a whole as far as getting the job goes but it always exist in some places.

[zealanddonk]

"Remember girls, if you want more money you just have to be assertive, but don't be too assertive or we'll call you a ball-busting bitch"

[ToasterOven]

Druff, when was the last time you had an office job?

[herbertstemple]

Men are built to work, women are built to reproduce. Its obvious.

[Dan Druff]

Druff, when was the last time you had an office job?

2003

Unless you count the one day in 2005 when I worked with Ken Scalir for one day as a joke.

But I don't see why this has to do with anything. I don't think this issue has changed at all in the past 11 years.

[adamantium]

I've read about this for years, but I always felt the issue was being twisted and exaggerated by the media.

The claim is that women make 78% of what men make for the same job.

I felt that this statistic was already highly misleading, because it simply takes a median salary of all full-time female salaries and all full-time male salaries. It does not compare jobs, years of experience, or anything other factors which could shed some important light upon this disparity.

For example, men might simply be gravitating toward the higher paying careers, while women perhaps prefer the lower-paying but more rewarding ones, such as teaching. When it comes time to make the career decision, I can see women choosing based upon what they find appealing, while men choosing based upon their earning potential and ability to support a future family. Indeed, while women frequently have the option to "marry up" to a richer man while still enjoying their lower-paying career, men rarely can manage the same.

Dedication to the job may be another factor. Moving up the corporate ladder often requires throwing yourself into the job and becoming a workaholic. Women with children are hesitant to do this, for obvious reasons (and in fact, their choice not to do this is correct.) Furthermore, women with children might take some years off their careers, placing them behind men of the same age.

I can't link to it, but I saw a study that childless women actually out earn men on average. I think that pretty much kills the gender gap argument right there, but sadly I don't remember where I saw it.

Finally, I don't understand how reasonable people believe that there is some sort of chauvinistic conspiracy to depress women's salaries. It's as if they believe that companies enjoy paying every penny they can to men, but tighten their wallets when it comes to women. That's not how it works. Companies exist to make a profit. Every dollar they pay to employees is a dollar they don't make. In general, companies want to get away with paying the least they can to ALL employees. Now, there's a tradeoff. If they pay too little, the employees will leave and go elsewhere. So basically each company figures out the least they can pay while still keeping employees happy enough with their salary not to look for greener pastures. It doesn't matter if the employees are male or female. They just want to keep as much money in the company coffers as possible.

So why might men make more at the same position?

I'm imagining that it also might have to do with the way men approach their salary compared to women.

I know this is anecdotal, but I've had tons of conversations with female friends which go something like this:

Her: "I work so hard over here and make so little, I really wish they would pay me more for what I do."

Me: "Then why don't you talk to your boss about giving you a raise?"

Her: "Oh, I can't do that. I would be embarrassed asking for more money. Just makes me feel really uncomfortable to talk about things like that. I'm sure they will recognize what I've been doing here and give me a raise on their own."

Me: "No, they probably won't, if it seems like you're fine with your current salary. You need to say something. You can be polite about it, but you need to have this discussion."

Her: "No, no, I can't. Never mind. Thanks for the advice, though."

I think men are more willing to walk into their boss' office and ask for a raise than women are. It seems like women just want this to automatically happen. Or they want some sort of ridiculous legislature passed which mandates people's salaries (which would be a disaster).

I have even seen calls to make everyone's salary public to everyone in the company, which is a horrible idea for so many reasons.

The bottom line is that a company will pay you more if you ask for the money and are worth it. If you are not worth it (at least in their eyes), then you won't get that money. I have a hard time believing that companies are artificially depressing women's pay out of some sexist conspiracy, when in reality they exist to make money and it would be foolish to lose a competent employee due to underpaying them, regardless of their gender.

If you wanna drum up content lets talk about all the so called jews killed in ww2 but still being able to feature in kike spielberg movies, now that is some sci fi shit if you ask me

[ToasterOven]

Druff, when was the last time you had an office job?

2003

Unless you count the one day in 2005 when I worked with Ken Scalir for one day as a joke.

But I don't see why this has to do with anything. I don't think this issue has changed at all in the past 11 years.

It's just that your anecdotal example seems like a scene from Mad Men, not anything I've witnessed in this century.

[ShadyJ]

I know female poker dealers that make 3x more money then guys in tips by either looking good or flirting or both.