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Thread: What will Atlantic City look like 5 years from now? 10?

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    What will Atlantic City look like 5 years from now? 10?

    They just announced that Prince Georges County (outside of DC) got approval to open yet another casino in the area. Honestly that is like the 5th one in the DC/Baltimore that I can think of off the top of my head, they are now poised to be everywhere in this area. Obviously this looks like a trend that is going to be happening everywhere soon especially on the East Coast and close to where AC draws a TON of it's customers.

    The bankruptcies and closings are already piling up in AC, and it seems like as more time goes by the ones that are still in operation can't be doing that well. I don't know much about the PA casino race, but one would have to think that they will soon try to keep any gambling money in state with as many as possible (if they haven't already, I don't know), hurting AC more.

    I guess the question is can it survive with all the competition in the region? Will it be a slow death over the next 5-10 years with only a few surviving? The outlook can't be that positive. I mean everyone knows anywhere but a casino in AC is a complete shithole, not like they have any other thriving industries to build off of if the gambling thing goes bust.

    Gambling is now being more "accepted" as a way to make money. It just seems like it is a matter of time before no one has to make more than a 30 min drive to get to one, especially on the wealthy East Coast where people have money to blow (relatively speaking)

     
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      tyde: excellent post nbh

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    Gold LLL's Avatar
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    AC has a beach...
    "You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    AC has a beach...
    Even after this super informative breaking news, I decided to google to see if I was off base in my future negative outlook, and coincidentally I found this article written about an hour ago.
    http://www.chron.com/news/us/article...ng-5636188.php


    TLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) — Yomary Blanco cleans rooms at Trump Plaza, one of three Atlantic City casinos that could shut down by September. Her husband works the buffet at the Showboat, which is scheduled to close on Aug. 31.

    With two young daughters, a mortgage, no savings and no obvious plan B, the couple is afraid of what the future holds.

    "I'm worried; it's a really stressful situation right now," she said. "A lot of my co-workers are in shock. They can't believe this is really happening."

    The pain of a sudden spasm of casino contraction in what was once the nation's second-largest gambling market will hurt not only families like Blanco's. It will also hurt small businesses like the seafood company in neighboring Pleasantville that sells lobsters to the casinos, the pizza shop in the shadow of Revel and the beauty parlor where dealers and cocktail waitresses get their hair done.

    The housing market could suffer as homes are foreclosed on, or sold for less than they're worth. Taxes could rise and services decline in Atlantic City, where 60 percent of the budget comes from casino taxes; the city plans to cut $10 million from its budget in each of the next four years to make up for lost casino money.

    And New Jersey's programs for senior citizens and the disabled, which provide bus rides to and from the supermarket or doctor's office and help with the cost of prescription drugs, have already been cut back as casino tax collections plunge, and could shrink yet again.

    In January, the Atlantic Club closed, taken down by two rivals in a bankruptcy court auction, stripped for parts and shuttered. The Showboat will close on Aug. 31 and Trump Plaza on Sept. 16, barring some last-minute deal to save one or both of them. Revel, which was hailed as a potential savior of Atlantic City when it opened a little over two years ago, says it will close if a buyer does not emerge from a bankruptcy auction in August.

    That would put nearly 8,000 workers — about a quarter of the city's casino workforce — on the street.

    The casino industry has had a mixed legacy — it hasn't resulted in the wholesale community improvements some had projected after it opened in 1978, and Atlantic City has continued to grapple with crime. But it has indisputably made a huge difference in the city's coffers and in job opportunities, employing more than 45,000 people at the industry's peak.

    Bob McDevitt, president of Local 54 of the Unite-HERE union, plans to seek potential buyers for the three casinos and pledges "flexibility and cooperation" in contract talks. He is also rallying political and public support against the closings, vowing, "we are not taking this lying down."

    Blanco, who has cleaned rooms at Trump Plaza for 18 years, is already preparing for the possibility of her job and that of her husband disappearing within weeks. First to go will be the Catholic school her 7-year-old daughter now attends.

    "I don't know how I'm going to explain that to her," Blanco said.

    Donald Moliver, dean of Leon Hess Business School at Monmouth University, said the casino closings will have a ripple effect on the local and regional economy as less income is injected into it. He predicted mortgage delinquencies will rise, and government tax collections will fall.

    Since 2006, right before the first Pennsylvania casino opened, the amount of taxes New Jersey has collected from casinos at an 8 percent rate has fallen from $413 million to $207 million this year.

    The contraction of the casino market could result in the shift of more of the tax burden from casinos onto Atlantic City homeowners. Mayor Don Guardian took office in January promising voters "a root canal" in dealing with the city's troubled finances. In addition to $40 million in budget cuts over the next four years, the city plans a revaluation that is expected to shift some of the tax burden from casinos, which had been overvalued, onto homes, which have been undervalued.

    Local businesses will suffer as well.

    Michael Hauke, owner of Tony Boloney's pizza & sandwich restaurant near Revel, has invested $700,000 in the business over the past five years.

    "The less casinos nearby, the less people we have walk into the store," he said. "The troubling thing for us is we have customers that are just gone. They move to Delaware or Maryland or Rhode Island to work in a casino there because it dried up here."

    Greg Goff's Casino Lobster company sells to the gambling halls; last week, he started soliciting out-of-state restaurants to make up for lost business.

    "You have three fewer casinos, that's 30 percent less, and it's 30 percent off of something that was already down," he said. "This ain't the good ol' days."
    Maybe they can start charging $50 a head to sit on the beach.

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    Caesars robbery Monday morning. AC is a great town. Seriously I do like going to AC.

    Watching the homeless bet their last $10 and people begging for money in the casino is awesome. Going into the bathrooms in groups so you don't get mugged is priceless.


    http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/n...9bb2963f4.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler View Post
    They just announced that Prince Georges County (outside of DC) got approval to open yet another casino in the area. Honestly that is like the 5th one in the DC/Baltimore that I can think of off the top of my head, they are now poised to be everywhere in this area. Obviously this looks like a trend that is going to be happening everywhere soon especially on the East Coast and close to where AC draws a TON of it's customers.

    The bankruptcies and closings are already piling up in AC, and it seems like as more time goes by the ones that are still in operation can't be doing that well. I don't know much about the PA casino race, but one would have to think that they will soon try to keep any gambling money in state with as many as possible (if they haven't already, I don't know), hurting AC more.

    I guess the question is can it survive with all the competition in the region? Will it be a slow death over the next 5-10 years with only a few surviving? The outlook can't be that positive. I mean everyone knows anywhere but a casino in AC is a complete shithole, not like they have any other thriving industries to build off of if the gambling thing goes bust.

    Gambling is now being more "accepted" as a way to make money. It just seems like it is a matter of time before no one has to make more than a 30 min drive to get to one, especially on the wealthy East Coast where people have money to blow (relatively speaking)
    Rumor is Caesars is closing Showboat to purchase Revel. Apparently they can only own 4 casinos in AC. I hope this is true b/c Revel is an awesome property.
    They have very little robberies and killings on their property.

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    Photoballer 4Dragons's Avatar
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    Just to recap, the two towns being compared are AC/DC.


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    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodpoop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler View Post
    They just announced that Prince Georges County (outside of DC) got approval to open yet another casino in the area. Honestly that is like the 5th one in the DC/Baltimore that I can think of off the top of my head, they are now poised to be everywhere in this area. Obviously this looks like a trend that is going to be happening everywhere soon especially on the East Coast and close to where AC draws a TON of it's customers.

    The bankruptcies and closings are already piling up in AC, and it seems like as more time goes by the ones that are still in operation can't be doing that well. I don't know much about the PA casino race, but one would have to think that they will soon try to keep any gambling money in state with as many as possible (if they haven't already, I don't know), hurting AC more.

    I guess the question is can it survive with all the competition in the region? Will it be a slow death over the next 5-10 years with only a few surviving? The outlook can't be that positive. I mean everyone knows anywhere but a casino in AC is a complete shithole, not like they have any other thriving industries to build off of if the gambling thing goes bust.

    Gambling is now being more "accepted" as a way to make money. It just seems like it is a matter of time before no one has to make more than a 30 min drive to get to one, especially on the wealthy East Coast where people have money to blow (relatively speaking)
    Rumor is Caesars is closing Showboat to purchase Revel. Apparently they can only own 4 casinos in AC. I hope this is true b/c Revel is an awesome property.
    They have very little robberies and killings on their property.

    "Come to Revel: We don't have that many killings!"

    In 10 years AC will look a lot like it does now: a complete shithole of human misery with one or two nice casinos plopped down amidst the wreckage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Goodpoop View Post

    Rumor is Caesars is closing Showboat to purchase Revel. Apparently they can only own 4 casinos in AC. I hope this is true b/c Revel is an awesome property.
    They have very little robberies and killings on their property.

    "Come to Revel: We don't have that many killings!"

    In 10 years AC will look a lot like it does now: a complete shithole of human misery with one or two nice casinos plopped down amidst the wreckage.

    Yep I can see it. Revel if it is purchased. Borgata will survive has a Great poker room, casino and hotel. It's on the bayside so they can control the trash that floats the board walk.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodpoop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post


    "Come to Revel: We don't have that many killings!"

    In 10 years AC will look a lot like it does now: a complete shithole of human misery with one or two nice casinos plopped down amidst the wreckage.

    Yep I can see it. Revel if it is purchased. Borgata will survive has a Great poker room, casino and hotel. It's on the bayside so they can control the trash that floats the board walk.
    The Borgata is funny because it's like a fortress in a way. Guards at the parking structure, and the whole thing is kinda isolated on a hill -- or at least what passes for a hill in New Jersey.

    The place is really like a poor man's Bellagio, right down to the Chihuly glass sculptures.

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    The market has been supersaturated for years, and analysts have been warning of this since the mid-2000's. AC can reasonably support 5-6 casinos, so even with Showboat (Aug) and Trump Plaza (Sep) closing that still leaves 9 casinos.

    A Revel sale to Caesars is highly unlikely, and no, there is no longer a cap on # of casinos a company can own, although NJ regulators want to avoid monopolies, which was a concern when Caesars picked up the Atlantic Club in December, giving them 5 of the 12 AC casinos at the time.

    The biggest problem is Caesars current debt which has them heading towards a restructuring, so there is little chance they would be allowed to take over the already twice bankrupted Revel.

    Bigger picture, Revel is sort of like a multi-million dollar mansion that you can't sell for $100k because it's in area with insane property taxes. The amount of remodeling that needs to be done inside (the layout is atrocious and goes against everything a casino strives for) as well as the monthly nut in taxes and utilities makes it the proverbial money pit.

    The only way the Revel works is if the state decides they have already sunk too much into it and offer some kind of sweetheart deal, which is unlikely to happen as its unfair to the other casinos.

    My own solution would be to open up the rest of NJ to casinos (this is likely going to happen anyway) and amend the current casino laws so that the newly "zoned" casinos (figure 2-3 total with 1 each in North, west, and/or south NJ) pay a higher tax rate while cutting AC casinos a break to make up for the already stiff competition in-town + the new competition in other parts of the state. If that occurs than the Revel could be saved, otherwise it will likely go down as the biggest calamity in casino history.

     
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      LLL: Good post.
      
      NaturalBornHustler: excellent info
      
      SrslySirius:
      
      garrett: incredible anyone even allows you to contribute to a website when you are this clueless. You need to balance some red in your game, prom queens!
      
      Dan Druff: intelligent analysis
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

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    AC can support Borgata, Harrah's, Trop, Caesars, and Taj right now as properties...RIGHT NOW is the key phrase...if the meadowlands or NYC opens up that might need to be cut in half...AC will always be a market because of The Shore...AC will always be a seasonal market as well that runs from Memorial Day to a little after Labor Day...

    AC fucked themselves in so many ways...they thought that PA was filled with cute little casinos that wouldn't take business from them since they didn't see any dent in their business in the late 90s after foxwoods/Mohegan opened...problem is that a population of 6 million people now had gaming within 30 minutes and the casinos (Parx, valley forge, harrah's philly) aren't actually that bad if you just want to go out with the wife/GF for something to do and don't want to spend $12 on tolls and gas...

    the city itself is going to be fucked because they've been sucking off the teet of the casinos, now that cash cow is drying up and now they have to right size...

    its sad because the city probably could have staved this off, but they underestimated their opponent(s)...PA to begin with and MD now...now its way too late to do anything about it...

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    ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. – The rapid disintegration of Atlantic City's casino market might be an early indicator of what could happen in other parts of the country that have too many casinos and not enough gamblers.

    In the 36th year of casino gambling in New Jersey, which not too long ago had a monopoly on the East Coast, the casino industry is crashing with a suddenness and a fury that has caught many people here by surprise. It started the year with 12 casinos; by mid-September, it could have eight.

    The Atlantic Club shut down in January, taken down by two rivals, stripped for parts and closed in the name of reducing competition, eliminating 1,600 jobs.

    In recent weeks, the owners of the Showboat and Trump Plaza announced plans to close, and Revel, which opened two years ago, said it, too, will close if a buyer can't be found in a bankruptcy court auction next month. That would put nearly 8,000 workers — about a quarter of the city's casino workforce — on the street.

    "Most of us had expected one or two places to close this year and that would be it for a while, and it would give us a chance to catch our breath," said state Sen. James Whelan, a former Atlantic City mayor. "This is happening very quickly, and it is absolutely devastating to our region."

    David Schwartz, director of the Center for Gaming Research at the University of Nevada Las Vegas, said casino markets around the country could find themselves in a similar situation — and soon.

    Connecticut's tribal casinos have been affected by New York casinos and face an even greater challenge from new casinos going online soon in New York and Massachusetts. Mississippi, where Caesars Entertainment recently shuttered a casino in Tunica, has struggled with competition from expanded gambling in the Midwest and Florida.

    Even Pennsylvania, which overtook Atlantic City as the nation's No. 2 casino market, is seeing its own casino revenue stagnate as competition grows.

    "For the past 36 years, Atlantic City was basically a place people drove to play slots," Schwartz said. "Now, the last thing people in the Northeast need is to drive somewhere far away to play slots."

    How did this happen?

    The most immediate and powerful reason Atlantic City's casinos are struggling is because of a glut of casino sin nearby states. Since late 2006, when the first casino opened in neighboring Pennsylvania,Atlantic City's casino revenue has fallen from $5.2 billion to $2.86 billion last year. Casinos have now popped up all around New Jersey; in New York, a Manhattan casino could open before the end of the decade.

    The casinos failed for years to plan for the day when they wouldn't be the only game in town. For decades, they were content to offer gambling — and little else. It wasn't until the Borgata entered the market in 2003 that Atlantic City realized the need to diversify the experience their customers could receive. That drive to offer spas, gourmet restaurants, upscale shopping and hip nightclubs — now underway with a fierce urgency — comes at a time when most people in the region live within an hour of a casino, lessening the need to drive to Atlantic City.

    Companies took on mountains of debt to buy or expand casinos in Atlantic City. That wasn't so much of a problem when revenues kept increasing, but when competition and the Great Recession hit with a one-two punch, the debt became crippling. That led to layoffs, delayed new investments and some maintenance. Caesars Entertainment, which is closing the Showboat, has among the highest debt levels in the industry and has been trying to improve its balance sheet by closing some properties.

    Analysts also say the resort needs more air service from the rest of the country and more capacity to host conventions and meetings — both of which Atlantic City is now trying to address.

    Wall Street analysts say contraction is actually good for Atlantic City. The closings and layoffs are an economic self-correction to what had been an oversaturated market. Even Atlantic City's mayor, Don Guardian, says the market will determine how many casinos it can support. He vows to remake the city as a place with lots to do besides gambling.

    Melanie Gillespie, a beverage server at the Showboat with an 11-year-old daughter, is optimistic she and her co-workers can rally public opinion against the closings and attract new buyers for at least some of them. But she's already preparing her daughter in case that effort falls short.

    "She'll ask me for something, and I have to think long and hard before we go out to a movie or the waterpark now," she said. "I'm really not sure what we'll do. I haven't given up hope yet, though."

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    Gold Shizzmoney's Avatar
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    Liberty City

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    Diamond PLOL's Avatar
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    It will keep getting worse. Casinos in upstate New York are set to open up soon, and 6-7 years from now we'll have our first real NYC casinos. That is what will really put the nail in their coffin. It'll even hurt the Philly (Parx, Sands, etc) and CT (Mohegan & Foxwoods) casinos. All these ares will be able to co-exist, but nobody will dominate the NE corridor. Nine casinos in Atlantic City is not sustainable.
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    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

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    The next play is going to be North NJ, mainly the Meadowlands and some of the horse racing tracks like Monmouth Park also getting gambling.

    They are talking about subsidizing Atlantic Cities shortfalls, with the revenues from these North NJ casinos. Christie and some other State Senators are already talking about it, with the plan of subsidizing Atlantic City with the revenues made from these places.

    Christies 5 year plan for Atlantic City is almost up, and has said all along if A.C doesn't reverse course taking the monopoly away from A.C is something he will consider. Sounds like that is beginning to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PLOL View Post
    It will keep getting worse. Casinos in upstate New York are set to open up soon, and 6-7 years from now we'll have our first real NYC casinos. That is what will really put the nail in their coffin. It'll even hurt the Philly (Parx, Sands, etc) and CT (Mohegan & Foxwoods) casinos. All these ares will be able to co-exist, but nobody will dominate the NE corridor. Nine casinos in Atlantic City is not sustainable.
    disagree with anything in ny hurting parx, VF, harrahs philly, sugarhouse (and the possible one by the stadium)...these are total locals casinos...nobody from philly is going to go to ny to gamble when all these places are in their backyard...the thing that will hurt the philly casinos is if the city grants another license and oversaturates an already full market in philly...

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    Platinum GrenadaRoger's Avatar
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    maybe NJ will reconsider Pokerstars as a casino owner now
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

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    Don't forget Maryland. They are doing about 80 million in revenue a month. $60 million just from Marylandlive. Horseshoe will be open end of August and MGM at National Harbor in 2016.

     
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      bukowski72: Maryland live is great and Natinal Harbor looks awesome and will suck up a huge pot of money

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Top 10 Las Vegas Casino Implosions




    Soon there will be a top 10 Atlantic City Implosions video. Chris Christie's political future will be the first shown.

    Steve-O's correct. There will be no saving or re-purposiing of these hulks

    There probably isn't a gambler alive who would not want to push the plunger.

     
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      garrett: "Steve-O's correct. There will be no saving or re-purposiing of these hulks", both clueless when it comes to A.C!!!
      
      Prodigal son: Doing the reverse Garrett - cool vid
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 07-23-2014 at 08:55 AM.

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    Platinum garrett's Avatar
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    Sanlmar talks out his ass. Stick to the left coast. And Steve-O just regurgitates well known facts, and tries to make them seem as if they were his own "brilliant" ideas. So many of you have no clue when you think N.J would just let that economic engine that A.C is too N.J just die. It will not ever happen. A contraction of the market yes, complete failure of the market, never. N.J is the most populated per sq. mile State in the U.S. Their is plenty of demand to supply in a perfectly contracted market.


    Read up Steve-O, then you can regurgitate it as your own, on one of the fail websites you contribute too!



    http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf...ayor_says.html


    "Atlantic City's mayor said today there are six potential buyers for the Revel Casino Hotel"

    "Under proposals being considered by state officials, the operator of a casino at the Meadowlands race track would be taxed at a much higher rate than Atlantic City casinos and a certain as-yet unspecified percentage of that extra revenue would be returned to Atlantic City to help it deal with the in-state competition.

    Sweeney said that whatever the percentage ultimately is, the money would be Constitutionally dedicated to help Atlantic City and could not be diverted to the state's general fund."

     
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      Hockey Guy: & you wonder why people think you're an asshole.

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