Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Live MTT Tourney Strategy

  1. #1
    Cubic Zirconia
    Reputation
    10
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    18
    Load Metric
    65701787

    Live MTT Tourney Strategy

    Druff,

    I remember listening to some podcasts where you talked about playing WSOP events and you gave out a lot of solid advice. Even though NL tourneys are not your main game, you seemed to like playing WSOP events due to all the terrible players. Was thinking of going to the WSOP for a week to play a few tourneys and cash games, but want to make sure I have a solid understanding of MTT Live Tourney strategy.

    Could you do a post sometime on just the basic theories of NL Tourneys and the best way to play them.

    I understand how stack size/BBs left effect how you play but could you go into detail on the basic strategy in them. For example, its the 1st level of the main event, you are dealt AA and another player is dealt KK. He shows you the KK and he has you covered. Your around an 81% favorite. Do you risk your entire tourney life at this stage in the tourney? Obv cash game you take this all day, but in a tourney like the main, I'm not so sure.

    Another example, played a tourney where I called a raise knowing the player must likey had a big hand pre-flop. I flop top 2 pair and we get it all in on the flop and villain shows pocket kings I had about a 75% edge when the money went in. But of course the board pairs and he wins the all in. I put my tourney life at stake but it seemed like the right play since I'm a huge favorite. I know in cash games you will take this play every time as in the long run your going win 75% of the time. But with tourneys how do you deal with things like this since its do or die?

    With tourneys and the blinds increasing so quick you just can't wait for 100% lock hands.

    I think I read somewhere that you just got to keep making positive expectation plays in tourneys and eventually they will add up. But unlike cash where you know all those positive EV plays are going eventually add up to profits in the long term. In a tourney, if you go all in with a 75%, 60%, 80%, etc edge a bunch of times, you are bound to lose one or a few of them and get donked out of the tourney.

    Any insight into how to properly play Live MTTs would be great!

  2. #2
    Gold tommyt's Avatar
    Reputation
    154
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,139
    Load Metric
    65701787
    if you fold AA anytime in a tournament to a pre-flop all in your crazy. your such a huge favorite. even if he does have kings and you know it your going to fold? he's drawing to 3 outs (unless straight and flushs come)

  3. #3
    Diamond PLOL's Avatar
    Reputation
    1069
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,095
    Load Metric
    65701787
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyt View Post
    if you fold AA anytime in a tournament to a pre-flop all in your crazy. your such a huge favorite. even if he does have kings and you know it your going to fold? he's drawing to 3 outs (unless straight and flushs come)
    I fold Aces all the time in a tournament, and on occasion in a cash game (mostly for image building purposes). But it's a pretty advanced play, and I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to amateurs.
    TRUMP 2024!

    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

  4. #4
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,627
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65701787
    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Druff,

    I remember listening to some podcasts where you talked about playing WSOP events and you gave out a lot of solid advice. Even though NL tourneys are not your main game, you seemed to like playing WSOP events due to all the terrible players. Was thinking of going to the WSOP for a week to play a few tourneys and cash games, but want to make sure I have a solid understanding of MTT Live Tourney strategy.

    Could you do a post sometime on just the basic theories of NL Tourneys and the best way to play them.

    I understand how stack size/BBs left effect how you play but could you go into detail on the basic strategy in them. For example, its the 1st level of the main event, you are dealt AA and another player is dealt KK. He shows you the KK and he has you covered. Your around an 81% favorite. Do you risk your entire tourney life at this stage in the tourney? Obv cash game you take this all day, but in a tourney like the main, I'm not so sure.

    Another example, played a tourney where I called a raise knowing the player must likey had a big hand pre-flop. I flop top 2 pair and we get it all in on the flop and villain shows pocket kings I had about a 75% edge when the money went in. But of course the board pairs and he wins the all in. I put my tourney life at stake but it seemed like the right play since I'm a huge favorite. I know in cash games you will take this play every time as in the long run your going win 75% of the time. But with tourneys how do you deal with things like this since its do or die?

    With tourneys and the blinds increasing so quick you just can't wait for 100% lock hands.

    I think I read somewhere that you just got to keep making positive expectation plays in tourneys and eventually they will add up. But unlike cash where you know all those positive EV plays are going eventually add up to profits in the long term. In a tourney, if you go all in with a 75%, 60%, 80%, etc edge a bunch of times, you are bound to lose one or a few of them and get donked out of the tourney.

    Any insight into how to properly play Live MTTs would be great!
    You shouldn't be playing with scared money in tournaments, especially ones that aren't slow-structured.

    You should always be happy to be all-in with AA pre-flop, except in the super-satellite situation where you have enough chips to just blind off and win.

    As you already mentioned, you don't have the time (even in deep structured tourneys) to sit around and wait for the perfect spot where your opponent is both drawing dead and willing to put all of his money in.

    When people talk about "saving your chips for a better spot", it more applies to hands like AK. If you have AK in an MTT, and you're facing an all-in, there's a good chance you're in a coin-flip situation. If it's either a fast-structure event or you're late in the tournament, you usually have to take your chances with AK and call. If it's earlier and you're deep-stacked, you don't want to. However, there's a huge difference between AK and AA, and you should always be happy to get all the money in with a big (even if not insurmountable) edge.

    Simply put, in deep-stack tournaments, it's smart to be conservative and only stick to very good spots in the beginning, but you're always forced to do some gambling at the end. The people refusing to do any gambling are the ones who either make it through 70% of the field and don't cash, or fold their way to a min-cash.

  5. #5
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,627
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65701787
    I actually had this decision with QQ in the WSOP Main Event in 2010.

    There were around 90 people left, and I picked up QQ. I had about 1.3 million chips, average stack was about 2.1 million.

    I was UTG. Blinds were 20k/40k and I forget the ante, but it was something typical for 20k/40k like 5k.

    I opened to 100k. A loose-aggressive kid made it 300k about 3 spots to my left. Got to a Euro kid on the button who looked like Swedish Allen Cunningham, and he looked VERY unhappy. This guy was an internet player and was a huge tellbox. He definitely wasn't acting. He had a hand that was too good to easily fold, but not good enough to be happy about putting his tournament life on the line. His stack was 1.1 million, while the loose-aggro guy who 3-bet had both of us covered.

    Swedish Cunnigham finally went all-in and looked unhappy about it.

    I knew for sure he didn't have AA or KK, which meant either I was coin-flipping (against AK) or crushing him (if he had TT or JJ). I still had to worry about the other guy 3-betting, but he was fairly loose and I was willing to take my chances against him (I decided to shove on him before it even got to Swedish Cunningham).

    I called. The loose-aggro kid folded and said he had AT. I was hoping to see Swedish Cunnigham with JJ, but he turned over AK suited.

    Ace on flop. I was cripped. Lost 3 hands later, in 88th place.

    I still think I made the right move because I knew I wasn't up against AA or KK (at least with Swedish Cunningham), the loose-aggro kid probably didn't have me beat (due to his willingness to 3-bet light), and winning the hand would put me well over 2.5 million, and I'd have an above-average stack in the WSOP Main Event with 88 people left.

    If I folded, I would have been back in the spot of semi-shortstacking, paying 100k per round.

  6. #6
    Diamond shortbuspoker's Avatar
    Reputation
    863
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,047
    Load Metric
    65701787
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyt View Post
    if you fold AA anytime in a tournament to a pre-flop all in your crazy. your such a huge favorite. even if he does have kings and you know it your going to fold? he's drawing to 3 outs (unless straight and flushs come)
    not to nit pick but if you have aces and he has kings he's drawing to 2 outs

  7. #7
    Bronze John Stamos's Avatar
    Reputation
    57
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    287
    Load Metric
    65701787
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually had this decision with QQ in the WSOP Main Event in 2010.

    There were around 90 people left, and I picked up QQ. I had about 1.3 million chips, average stack was about 2.1 million.

    I was UTG. Blinds were 20k/40k and I forget the ante, but it was something typical for 20k/40k like 5k.

    I opened to 100k. A loose-aggressive kid made it 300k about 3 spots to my left. Got to a Euro kid on the button who looked like Swedish Allen Cunningham, and he looked VERY unhappy. This guy was an internet player and was a huge tellbox. He definitely wasn't acting. He had a hand that was too good to easily fold, but not good enough to be happy about putting his tournament life on the line. His stack was 1.1 million, while the loose-aggro guy who 3-bet had both of us covered.

    Swedish Cunnigham finally went all-in and looked unhappy about it.

    I knew for sure he didn't have AA or KK, which meant either I was coin-flipping (against AK) or crushing him (if he had TT or JJ). I still had to worry about the other guy 3-betting, but he was fairly loose and I was willing to take my chances against him (I decided to shove on him before it even got to Swedish Cunningham).

    I called. The loose-aggro kid folded and said he had AT. I was hoping to see Swedish Cunnigham with JJ, but he turned over AK suited.

    Ace on flop. I was cripped. Lost 3 hands later, in 88th place.

    I still think I made the right move because I knew I wasn't up against AA or KK (at least with Swedish Cunningham), the loose-aggro kid probably didn't have me beat (due to his willingness to 3-bet light), and winning the hand would put me well over 2.5 million, and I'd have an above-average stack in the WSOP Main Event with 88 people left.

    If I folded, I would have been back in the spot of semi-shortstacking, paying 100k per round.
    Being the main event it's easy to second guess and also sucks that you lost the hand but this hand seems pretty standard according to your reads on the table. In that exact situation I am getting it all in there every time.

  8. #8
    Gold tommyt's Avatar
    Reputation
    154
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,139
    Load Metric
    65701787
    Quote Originally Posted by shortbuspoker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyt View Post
    if you fold AA anytime in a tournament to a pre-flop all in your crazy. your such a huge favorite. even if he does have kings and you know it your going to fold? he's drawing to 3 outs (unless straight and flushs come)
    not to nit pick but if you have aces and he has kings he's drawing to 2 outs
    i just noticed that must have been a mis-type. i promise im not that dumb

  9. #9
    Gold Shizzmoney's Avatar
    Reputation
    457
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,451
    Blog Entries
    1
    Load Metric
    65701787
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually had this decision with QQ in the WSOP Main Event in 2010.

    There were around 90 people left, and I picked up QQ. I had about 1.3 million chips, average stack was about 2.1 million.

    I was UTG. Blinds were 20k/40k and I forget the ante, but it was something typical for 20k/40k like 5k.

    I opened to 100k. A loose-aggressive kid made it 300k about 3 spots to my left. Got to a Euro kid on the button who looked like Swedish Allen Cunningham, and he looked VERY unhappy. This guy was an internet player and was a huge tellbox. He definitely wasn't acting. He had a hand that was too good to easily fold, but not good enough to be happy about putting his tournament life on the line. His stack was 1.1 million, while the loose-aggro guy who 3-bet had both of us covered.

    Swedish Cunnigham finally went all-in and looked unhappy about it.

    I knew for sure he didn't have AA or KK, which meant either I was coin-flipping (against AK) or crushing him (if he had TT or JJ). I still had to worry about the other guy 3-betting, but he was fairly loose and I was willing to take my chances against him (I decided to shove on him before it even got to Swedish Cunningham).

    I called. The loose-aggro kid folded and said he had AT. I was hoping to see Swedish Cunnigham with JJ, but he turned over AK suited.

    Ace on flop. I was cripped. Lost 3 hands later, in 88th place.

    I still think I made the right move because I knew I wasn't up against AA or KK (at least with Swedish Cunningham), the loose-aggro kid probably didn't have me beat (due to his willingness to 3-bet light), and winning the hand would put me well over 2.5 million, and I'd have an above-average stack in the WSOP Main Event with 88 people left.

    If I folded, I would have been back in the spot of semi-shortstacking, paying 100k per round.
    Standard

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. General Strategy Tips- WSOP Circuit Turbo NL Hold Em
    By Chuck Person in forum Poker Community Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-03-2012, 08:42 AM
  2. 2nd place in druff tourney - did i win anything
    By ownmatusow in forum Poker Community Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-26-2012, 03:05 AM
  3. WSOP circuit tourney fee Rip Off
    By Matt The Rat in forum Scams, Scandals, and Shadiness
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-20-2012, 04:24 PM
  4. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-30-2012, 02:11 AM
  5. ??? Anyone not available to buy into the HU tourney ???
    By TheTemplar in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-20-2012, 04:13 AM