Main event hands

[BHS]

Hand #2

AQ on button
You have 54k
150/300/25
Folds to you.
Raise to 700.
SB folds
BB (aggro young guy) makes it 2200
You consider repopping but call and will make move on certain flops.

Flop 332 rainbow
BB bets just 2k
You make it 5k. To your dismay, he calls.
You decide to check back unless you improve.

Turn Q, rainbow board
BB checks
You consider checking back and calling river
Instead you fire 8k
He thinks for about 2 min and makes it 22k
You have about 40 behind and he has about 28 behind

??????

I don't know how light he thinks you're opening the button but avg aggro kid likely has a pretty wide 3bet range. To him you probably look more like an oldish white guy than a wsop bracelet winner but whatever..

332 is a fold that is almost always going to be bricks for everyone. He's prob leading 100% of his hands on this flop and never folding 4's through 9's for a 3k flop raise.

Q on the turn is gin here for you. His turn check raise probably has more to do with him thinking you can't really be that strong here rather than for value. I think he just wants you to fold.

Ship it in his gook face and you'll win a lot more than you lose..

Please tell the results later..

[Dan Druff]

Another hand earlier:

Blinds 100/200
I have QsTs and make it 500. One flatter in late pos, one call from SB.

Flop KhJh3s

I consider check/calling, but both players up against me aren't very aggro and I feel they won't raise me with most holdings, so I'm better off representing a hand for later trapping purposes if I hit.

I fire like 1100, late pos calls, SB folds.

I am thinking in my head, "Offsuit 9 on turn please, offsuit 9 on turn please!"

Turn: 9d



I consider check-raising but my opponent is on the passive side and I'm afraid he won't semi-bluff a flush draw. So I fire 4k into him. He calls.

River: Ah

Awful.

That card sucks for two reasons. It makes the flush, and it scares my opponent in several ways if he DOESN'T have the flush.

I consider value-betting and then folding to a raise, but I am so concerned he was calling down with a flush draw (sure looked like it) that I decided just to check and probably call if he bet.

He immediately checked and turned over KsJs for top 2. Action killer river, for sure, but should I have bet it? I still think check/calling was probably the right play there.

[Dan Druff]

Hand #2

AQ on button
You have 54k
150/300/25
Folds to you.
Raise to 700.
SB folds
BB (aggro young guy) makes it 2200
You consider repopping but call and will make move on certain flops.

Flop 332 rainbow
BB bets just 2k
You make it 5k. To your dismay, he calls.
You decide to check back unless you improve.

Turn Q, rainbow board
BB checks
You consider checking back and calling river
Instead you fire 8k
He thinks for about 2 min and makes it 22k
You have about 40 behind and he has about 28 behind

??????

I don't know how light he thinks you're opening the button but avg aggro kid likely has a pretty wide 3bet range. To him you probably look more like an oldish white guy than a wsop bracelet winner but whatever..

332 is a fold that is almost always going to be bricks for everyone. He's prob leading 100% of his hands on this flop and never folding 4's through 9's for a 3k flop raise.

Q on the turn is gin here for you. His turn check raise probably has more to do with him thinking you can't really be that strong here rather than for value. I think he just wants you to fold.

Ship it in his gook face and you'll win a lot more than you lose..

Please tell the results later..

I'm out so I can tell the results now.

I folded. I put him on KK like ThreeBet did earlier in the thread. 22 was also possible, as this was the type of guy who would totally re-pop a hand like that from the BB to what he thinks is a button steal-raise. I did consider shipping it on him but decided there were too many hands I was getting beat, and laid it down.

What's too bad is that I really almost checked back the Q turn, fearing he might check-raise me and then I'll be in a very tough spot. If I did that, I call his river bet 100% unless it's like a shove or something huge, at which point I have to think about it.

[Dan Druff]

I don't know how light he thinks you're opening the button but avg aggro kid likely has a pretty wide 3bet range. To him you probably look more like an oldish white guy than a wsop bracelet winner but whatever..

332 is a fold that is almost always going to be bricks for everyone. He's prob leading 100% of his hands on this flop and never folding 4's through 9's for a 3k flop raise.

Q on the turn is gin here for you. His turn check raise probably has more to do with him thinking you can't really be that strong here rather than for value. I think he just wants you to fold.

Ship it in his gook face and you'll win a lot more than you lose..

Please tell the results later..

I'm out so I can tell the results now.

I folded. I put him on KK like ThreeBet did earlier in the thread. 22 was also possible, as this was the type of guy who would totally re-pop a hand like that from the BB to what he thinks is a button steal-raise. I did consider shipping it on him but decided there were too many hands I was getting beat, and laid it down.

What's too bad is that I really almost checked back the Q turn, fearing he might check-raise me and then I'll be in a very tough spot. If I did that, I call his river bet 100% unless it's like a shove or something huge, at which point I have to think about it.

Oh, and what's funny is that in the LHE $5k that I bubbled in 2012, I was up against Ray Dekhargani and had a short stack near the bubble. It folded around to me on the button with QTo. I raised, SB folded, Ray Dekhargani in BB called. Flop 884. Checked to me, I bet, he called. Turn Q. He checked, I checked. River A. He checked, I checked. He showed AQ! I was very proud of how I played that hand. Funny how I had this restraint in 2012 in a LHE event but fired the Q on the turn here and then had to lay it down.

[BHS]

Earlier 2 tough hands:

I had 21k coming into the final hand before the break. 50/100 blinds. Early position makes it 250, I find AA in the BB. Folds to me, I make it 800, he calls.

Flop: AcQs3c



I bet 1100. He calls.

Turn 5d.

I want to bet here, but I'm thinking the flop call means he has either an ace or flush draw, and my a check looks like I'm waving the white flag with TT/JJ/KK. So I check.



He checks.

River Js.

I bet 4k. He thinks for a minute or two and calls. I show AA, he yells, "FUCK!!! FUCK!!"

Then he turns to his friend (who was ready to walk with him during break) and says, "I had AQ. I could've lost way more."

He then tweeted about the hand, so I'm pretty sure he wasn't lying. (He wasn't aware I was reading his Twitter.)

After the break he told me he was going to re-raise me if I bet the turn. Damn.

Would you have bet that turn or tried for a check-raise?

I'm kinda thinking now that betting would be better, as it would induce a raise from AQ/QQ/33, and he would be committed enough by that raise to call my shove at that point. But on the other hand, if he has a flush draw here and bets it, then I can get him committed in that way, and perhaps if he has a naked A.

Yes, bet the turn.

He called the flop, which is almost always an Ace or a hand that he will continue to give you action with this runout.

[Dan Druff]

That's not what I thought at all.

I thought he had KK/AA and put me on a pair like 88/99, and decided on the flop to let me hang myself. Then when I fired with the Q, he probably had to think for a second (why am I betting so strong with the overcard hitting?) and then said "Fuck it, if he has 22 or A3, I guess I'll go broke."

I think I made either the right laydown or was chopping on this one.

What I'm saying though is what value does he get out of raising there? If he knows he has you beat with the exception of a couple hands why would he raise there and not see a river with no draws out? He's losing value by raising there and it seems like he's just trying to push a better hand out. You're on the button so he's naturally going to defend preflop with any two cards if he's aggressive as you're saying he was. If he had a 3 here and knew you were willing to lead out there's no reason for him to check to raise. Check call is going to get him the most value for his hand here.

Say you call and the river is like a 6. He's going to have to check back to you to get his value because if he shoves there's no way you can call and naturally you're going to check given your hand. All he can really do is check and hope you lead out again so he can get max value. The check raise is indicating to me that he was really weak. I put him on 77-99's at best but that's giving him the benefit of the doubt.

It is possible he had 77-99 or air, and thought the Q was a scare card rather than helping me. Maybe his plan was to muck if I shoved on him. The problem was he was leaving himself with too little behind, and this guy seemed like a online kid who had a lot of tourney experience and I just couldn't imagine him checking the river if I call, and leaving himself with a short stack. I figured he's shipping the river whether he has it or not, so I might as well make the decision then and either commit myself or fold, and not hope he lets me off easy on the river.

So I was debating shipping it, calling and then calling the river (and checking behind if he checks to me), or folding. I chose to fold.

There's also a fair chance he had AQ himself, thus causing the long confusion (wondering why I am still betting strong with the Q on the board). But I saw enough of a chance he had 22/KK/AA or even the fluke QQ, and I didn't want to lose all but like 12k on that hand.

I think the correct play would have been a check behind on the turn and a river call.

[Dan Druff]

Earlier 2 tough hands:

I had 21k coming into the final hand before the break. 50/100 blinds. Early position makes it 250, I find AA in the BB. Folds to me, I make it 800, he calls.

Flop: AcQs3c



I bet 1100. He calls.

Turn 5d.

I want to bet here, but I'm thinking the flop call means he has either an ace or flush draw, and my a check looks like I'm waving the white flag with TT/JJ/KK. So I check.



He checks.

River Js.

I bet 4k. He thinks for a minute or two and calls. I show AA, he yells, "FUCK!!! FUCK!!"

Then he turns to his friend (who was ready to walk with him during break) and says, "I had AQ. I could've lost way more."

He then tweeted about the hand, so I'm pretty sure he wasn't lying. (He wasn't aware I was reading his Twitter.)

After the break he told me he was going to re-raise me if I bet the turn. Damn.

Would you have bet that turn or tried for a check-raise?

I'm kinda thinking now that betting would be better, as it would induce a raise from AQ/QQ/33, and he would be committed enough by that raise to call my shove at that point. But on the other hand, if he has a flush draw here and bets it, then I can get him committed in that way, and perhaps if he has a naked A.

Yes, bet the turn.

He called the flop, which is almost always an Ace or a hand that he will continue to give you action with this runout.

That's actually why I checked the turn. I thought he would bet it, thinking I wouldn't be checking there otherwise.

Interestingly, he thought he was trapping ME -- being afraid to bet and having me fold a non-ace.

The J likely scared him into thinking I lucked into JJJ and he obv couldn't raise me, and seemed to be considering folding.

[Dan Druff]

But I will say that I would bet turn if I had to do it all over again, independent of the results.

Unfortunately that was the limit player in me checking the turn, to where the player auto-bets and I get a check-raise and river call out of it.

We were too deep at that point to commit him with a weak ace here, so really the only upside to checking the turn is if he fires with a flush draw and I commit him, or if he fires something like that AQ and I commit him anyway.

[chinamaniac]

Yes, bet the turn.

He called the flop, which is almost always an Ace or a hand that he will continue to give you action with this runout.

That's actually why I checked the turn. I thought he would bet it, thinking I wouldn't be checking there otherwise.

Interestingly, he thought he was trapping ME -- being afraid to bet and having me fold a non-ace.

The J likely scared him into thinking I lucked into JJJ and he obv couldn't raise me, and seemed to be considering folding.

He may have felt you were trapping him too

[Dan Druff]

What do you guys think of that Qs8s hand?

Was that an automatic call or ship on turn?

Don't Monday morning quarterback. Try to ignore what he had and answer what you would do in that spot. Also keep in mind this is the Main Event, where the structure is slow, so folding and keeping 25k leaves you a lot of room to still play. (However, it doesn't leave you any room for tight laydowns anymore, which is why I busted AT top two to that old guy's 555.)

[Dan Druff]

Honestly I was a bit worried that the guy firing the Td flush card turn after I raised the flop was him having some small or medium flush, and was worried that I would check behind and get a cheap 4th diamond. So I was thinking I would control the pot and not just spaz out with my final 32k into a flush. But I think given that this guy was willing to ship in with AK top pair on an AQ3 board earlier, I shouldn't have given him so much credit. 100% he would have called if I shipped on him, and I would have won.

But that aside, do you call his river ship or preserve that 25k?

[ThreeBet]

What do you guys think of that Qs8s hand?

Ship turn all day, every day

[Dan Druff]

That's actually why I checked the turn. I thought he would bet it, thinking I wouldn't be checking there otherwise.

Interestingly, he thought he was trapping ME -- being afraid to bet and having me fold a non-ace.

The J likely scared him into thinking I lucked into JJJ and he obv couldn't raise me, and seemed to be considering folding.

He may have felt you were trapping him too

Possible it was a combo of thinking he was either way ahead or way behind, and didn't want to either run me off or run into a disaster hand.

One interesting tidbit is that he tweeted that I flatted his raise pre, which I didn't. I 3-bet him from the BB. So that apparently wasn't on his mind, and he must have wrongly remembered me flatting. He also wrongly remembered that I bet flop (he thought he bet, and I called.) Which means he might not have been as worried about AA or QQ, but maybe was worried about a low set.

[ThreeBet]

That's not what I thought at all.

I thought he had KK/AA and put me on a pair like 88/99, and decided on the flop to let me hang myself. Then when I fired with the Q, he probably had to think for a second (why am I betting so strong with the overcard hitting?) and then said "Fuck it, if he has 22 or A3, I guess I'll go broke."

I think I made either the right laydown or was chopping on this one.

What I'm saying though is what value does he get out of raising there? If he knows he has you beat with the exception of a couple hands why would he raise there and not see a river with no draws out? He's losing value by raising there and it seems like he's just trying to push a better hand out. You're on the button so he's naturally going to defend preflop with any two cards if he's aggressive as you're saying he was. If he had a 3 here and knew you were willing to lead out there's no reason for him to check to raise. Check call is going to get him the most value for his hand here.

Say you call and the river is like a 6. He's going to have to check back to you to get his value because if he shoves there's no way you can call and naturally you're going to check given your hand. All he can really do is check and hope you lead out again so he can get max value. The check raise is indicating to me that he was really weak. I put him on 77-99's at best but that's giving him the benefit of the doubt.

My God this is such horrible analysis

[Dan Druff]

What do you guys think of that Qs8s hand?

Ship turn all day, every day

Yup, I thought that, too right after I did it.

Another reason to ship turn is that I still have 7 outs if he has anything but TT. I don't know what was wrong with me on that hand. I talked myself out of doing the right thing. I was just thinking to myself, "Is he really this stupid to lead into the flush card after I raised him on the flop?" I guess the answer was yes.

[BHS]

Another hand earlier:

Blinds 100/200
I have QsTs and make it 500. One flatter in late pos, one call from SB.

Flop KhJh3s

I consider check/calling, but both players up against me aren't very aggro and I feel they won't raise me with most holdings, so I'm better off representing a hand for later trapping purposes if I hit.

I fire like 1100, late pos calls, SB folds.

I am thinking in my head, "Offsuit 9 on turn please, offsuit 9 on turn please!"

Turn: 9d



I consider check-raising but my opponent is on the passive side and I'm afraid he won't semi-bluff a flush draw. So I fire 4k into him. He calls.

River: Ah

Awful.

That card sucks for two reasons. It makes the flush, and it scares my opponent in several ways if he DOESN'T have the flush.

I consider value-betting and then folding to a raise, but I am so concerned he was calling down with a flush draw (sure looked like it) that I decided just to check and probably call if he bet.

He immediately checked and turned over KsJs for top 2. Action killer river, for sure, but should I have bet it? I still think check/calling was probably the right play there.

I think the river is a bet/fold too. Did you think he was calling down with FD because he would have raised his made hands, seems like it would be the other way around?? A hand like this plays different in NL than in limit, where call downs are more frequent. Also, why does he have to have an FD? Can't this mutt have like K10 a lot?

Regardless, I think you bet to get value out of all his non fd hands (there's a lot more combos of them than FD's) and fold pretty safely to reraise, as 99% of the time this player isn't doing that without a good flush.

[SpewArtist]

What do you guys think of that Qs8s hand?

Was that an automatic call or ship on turn?

Don't Monday morning quarterback. Try to ignore what he had and answer what you would do in that spot. Also keep in mind this is the Main Event, where the structure is slow, so folding and keeping 25k leaves you a lot of room to still play. (However, it doesn't leave you any room for tight laydowns anymore, which is why I busted AT top two to that old guy's 555.)

It's a super tough spot on the river and honestly I would probably find a fold as well. Like it looks like he just has a flush, I mean what hands is he bluffing with? I can't think of one. (His call on the flop is terrible IMO so I wouldn't expect him to have the bare Ad ever), but props to him for at least turning it into a bluff like he did. You have Qs8s so you obviously don't block any diamonds. I don't like shipping turn because its a way ahead, way behind spot. You're almost never getting called by worse (AA w/Ad or KK w/Kd maybe the only hands), but I forgot what the action was pre so maybe he can't even have those. It sucks though because you're like at the tippy-top of your range and this is almost the best hand you can have given the action but it's just so hard to give the guy a bluff in this spot.

[Dan Druff]

I was really out of sync today. Every single one of those tough hands, when I had a decision, I made the one that either cost me money or lost me the pot. I was 0-for-5 in decision making, and 0-for-6 if you count the bustout AT vs 55 hand, but it's hard to count that one given my stack. That was more of a cooler, even though I strongly suspected the old guy had flopped a set.

This was opposed to 2010, when I went 6 days without making a "wrong" decision in a major pot. Even the hand that crippled me was the correct analysis where I just lost a race.

This was opposed to 2011, where I actually laid down a set on the turn while semi-short to an all-in, and indeed was shown a straight (someone else called behind me) and would have busted.

This was opposed to 2012, where I went 3 days before playing AA stupidly to bust against a flopped full house.

This was opposed to 2013, where I dodged SO many situations which would have busted or crippled me (I was either shown the hands, told what I believe to be sincerely what the guy had, or overheard them telling friends), only to decide to finally go aggro with AKo preflop and ran into an AA that had flatted before me.

But today I could have made some different decisions that I would have made on a different day when I was "seeing the ball better", and either still been in or sitting with a nice stack. Really depressing.

[Dan Druff]

What do you guys think of that Qs8s hand?

Was that an automatic call or ship on turn?

Don't Monday morning quarterback. Try to ignore what he had and answer what you would do in that spot. Also keep in mind this is the Main Event, where the structure is slow, so folding and keeping 25k leaves you a lot of room to still play. (However, it doesn't leave you any room for tight laydowns anymore, which is why I busted AT top two to that old guy's 555.)

It's a super tough spot on the river and honestly I would probably find a fold as well. Like it looks like he just has a flush, I mean what hands is he bluffing with? I can't think of one. (His call on the flop is terrible IMO so I wouldn't expect him to have the bare Ad ever), but props to him for at least turning it into a bluff like he did. You have Qs8s so you obviously don't block any diamonds. I don't like shipping turn because its a way ahead, way behind spot. You're almost never getting called by worse (AA w/Ad or KK w/Kd maybe the only hands), but I forgot what the action was pre so maybe he can't even have those. It sucks though because you're like at the tippy-top of your range and this is almost the best hand you can have given the action but it's just so hard to give the guy a bluff in this spot.

Well that makes me feel a bit better, but the problem is that the guy I was up against had just played like an idiot in a prior hand, and believe me, that was on my mind.

I see this shit in limit holdem all the time. Someone picks up a draw on the turn (often an NL player who doesn't understand LHE), and they fire out at me. And I raise them every time because I know they are full of shit, even in a tournament. Now, I realize this is NL, but I just saw this guy as the type who is going to fire with AA or AT with Ad, and I so badly wanted to ship on him, because I know 100% he's calling. This is NOT the type of player who will fold out of fear of drawing dead/thin.

At the same time, I'm just thinking, shit, what if he had A8 or a small flush and doesn't want me checking back, so he wants to make sure I pay for whatever I have that's behind but might catch up with a diamond.

But I still should have shipped the turn, given I was likely to have 7 outs or be ahead. If I shipped and got busted by the 4th diamond, I feel crappy but walk away knowing I did the right thing.

Calling the all-in on the river was tougher, but I still think I should have. But maybe I'd be sitting here feeling like a dumbass if he showed Jd9d or A8 and I busted with my Q8.

[Dan Druff]

Another hand earlier:

Blinds 100/200
I have QsTs and make it 500. One flatter in late pos, one call from SB.

Flop KhJh3s

I consider check/calling, but both players up against me aren't very aggro and I feel they won't raise me with most holdings, so I'm better off representing a hand for later trapping purposes if I hit.

I fire like 1100, late pos calls, SB folds.

I am thinking in my head, "Offsuit 9 on turn please, offsuit 9 on turn please!"

Turn: 9d



I consider check-raising but my opponent is on the passive side and I'm afraid he won't semi-bluff a flush draw. So I fire 4k into him. He calls.

River: Ah

Awful.

That card sucks for two reasons. It makes the flush, and it scares my opponent in several ways if he DOESN'T have the flush.

I consider value-betting and then folding to a raise, but I am so concerned he was calling down with a flush draw (sure looked like it) that I decided just to check and probably call if he bet.

He immediately checked and turned over KsJs for top 2. Action killer river, for sure, but should I have bet it? I still think check/calling was probably the right play there.

I think the river is a bet/fold too. Did you think he was calling down with FD because he would have raised his made hands, seems like it would be the other way around?? A hand like this plays different in NL than in limit, where call downs are more frequent. Also, why does he have to have an FD? Can't this mutt have like K10 a lot?

Regardless, I think you bet to get value out of all his non fd hands (there's a lot more combos of them than FD's) and fold pretty safely to reraise, as 99% of the time this player isn't doing that without a good flush.

It was the ace that irritated me here. Like, I know he doesn't have AK or he would have reraised pre, and I don't see this guy calling with turn with AJ. So the A makes him feel like he's going to get shown something that crushes him, unless it made his flush. Now he probably would have called with the KJ but that was like the only hand he's just calling and not beating me.

And frankly I don't think he has KJ because he's not raising the flop, and he's just quickly flatting everything I'm betting, which seemed weird for KJ there, given that the 9 couldn't have scared him that much on the turn, and honestly you're just asking for it if you are slowplaying top 2 on a KJx two spade board against 2 opponents. I don't even know what he thought he was doing. Like was he afraid he was behind with the KJ on the flop? When did he think he was behind, and why (other than the river)?

I don't feel too bad about this one because I'm only getting a little value out of him. His stack wasn't big and he's not calling a big bet on the scare river, so if I could see his cards, maybe I bet 6k and get that out of him, but that's about the max.

If it's a low heart, I still bet and fold to the raise, because at least I think he's calling a lot of hands like KQ/KT/KJ/K9, etc.