Wasn't the event 5k before this year? Wouldn't that mean this years 10k is less dead money more pro money?
Wasn't the event 5k before this year? Wouldn't that mean this years 10k is less dead money more pro money?
I didn't HAVE TO sell 90 % of my action but I did to take a smaller cut. Had I won the 300k I would have seen like 40k before taxes and I was fine with that. But if you ask all of the good broke tourney players this question. I'm sure if they could do it over they would play for less than always put up their full buyins themselves.Originally Posted by lewfather
I play LHE , I sold action , I wanted to play cause this is the game I play every day. I know there is a ton of variance in tournaments. I took on a smaller cut to play for less. Tourney buyins of most all kinds are pitfalls because of the variance especially for bigger buyins. I am a cash game player I always will be.
If I was in the money right now I guarantee anyone being critical now would be clicking refresh
depends , every event is different , a lot of things factor in like what tourneys are running against it as well
No, it's actually the opposite.
The limit holdem pros these days are nits on a budget. They sit there and grind 40-80 day in, day out, and aren't going to stuff 10k into this with a much better chance of bricking than cashing.
With 5k, they are more willing to take a shot. I personally know a few good LHE players who wanted to play this 10k event but couldn't, and even asked me if I knew anyone who would back them. These are people who aren't broke by any means, but just didn't want to risk $10k.
So basically this $10k attracts both the deep-rolled pros (mainly high stakes cash and tourney guys) and the rich amateurs who wipe their ass with $10k (like the doctor at my table).
Ah so that's why china sold 90%No, it's actually the opposite.
The limit holdem pros these days are nits on a budget.
just curious though, if china can sell 90% on pfa what stops these other solid nit pros from doing something similar?
My replies are in bold. These are just opinions of mine which I cannot speak from experience on this event but I am just going off my following of the WSOP regularly for 12 years now.If 20% of the entrants are mediocre or bad, they are basically dead money.
20% are not mediocre or bad. They might make a few mistakes here and there but I highly doubt 20% of this field is that bad/mediocre. I would lean the number to probably like 5-7% if I had to guess. You really think 20% are bad? If that was the case then you would be right but I don't think their are that many hopeless donks in this field.
You have almost no fish ever cashing in this event. That's the one thing with limit holdem tournaments. It's very difficult to cash if you suck at it, whereas in NL you can still cash if you hit a few huge all-in cooler hands over your opponents.
True, but again I don't think 20% are bad/mediocre like you are saying.
At the same time, the difference in skill between good NL players is bigger than the skill difference of good limit players. So the end of LHE tournaments becomes more of a card-catching contest, but getting to that point is more skill-based.
Of course it is luck and NL can be the same though you have more skills to use in your arsenal but in the end you likely will have to win some flips for your tournament life in NL so you have to not only run good but avoid bad luck just the same as you need to have hands hold/get there enough in a limit tournament in order to go deep.
Anyway, from personal experience, and from speaking to others, there are definitely a fair number of entrants in the $10k LHE tournament who are dead money. That's where the value comes in.
Perhaps but then again you have a lot of diluted people in poker who feel they are much better then they really are and they will always say this because they refuse to see reality.
There is actually MORE value in this tournament than there was in previous years. This is because more good players were willing to plunk down $5-10k to enter when the money flowed freely online. Now that making $10k takes a long time at most limit hold 'em games that spread, a lot of the good cash regulars don't want to bother with it.
More value now? If them online pros were binking so much in whatever cash games online prior to Black Friday it wouldn't matter to some to just play a $10k limit event if it wasn't there game so I'm not sure how you feel more value is in the tournament now then in the past. You will always have a few rich businessmen who enjoy the game who aren't any good but people will be more conservative imo of the bigger buy-in events they are playing especially in a game that is on life support in most places throughout the country.
So you end up with 125-180 people, some of whom are LHE experts, some of whom are NL players taking a shot, and some of whom are well-bankrolled amateurs with no shot.
I'm sure some shot takers are in it who might sell off a majority of themselves or those rich businessmen but I just don't see the number being 20% like what you put out there.
I'm not at every table, so I can't say for sure, but all I can say is that EVERY YEAR for the last 4 years at least, I've had at least one megafish and two more semidonks at the table. I'm talking about guys who literally have almost zero shot of cashing. So either I'm getting insanely good table draws, or there are a lot more bad players in this field than you think.
China mentioned that there were 2 limpdonks at his table, too.
I think you guys are underestimating the number of casual rich players in a small field event like this.
yes more or less, If I plopped 10k down it wouldn't make sense for me bankroll wiseAh so that's why china sold 90%
just curious though, if china can sell 90% on pfa what stops these other solid nit pros from doing something similar?
Here is the thing, a lot of times to get staked for a $10k or staked period you have to have to prove your a historic winner or people have to have some trust in you from prior stakes
For me , I have 10 years of posting on the web, I have made people 10s of thousands of dollars through staking arrangements in limit hold em and have 2 near final tables and cashed in the top 15 in 2 wsop limit hold em tournaments and have had the chiplead in another I bubbled in the 6 max field and bubbled 2 others. So I have experience in these. So by investing in me you know I have run deep in these before and you know I have a sense of whats going on. I am a long term winning cash player to this day and one could simply check all of my staking rails to see proof of wins and payments going out.
I also have a lot of contacts online because I am active in the poker community. A lot of live players don't have this, and a lot of winning online players keep to themselves and some wouldnt even know how to start a thread on it.
If what you're saying is absolutely true then aren't you really saying it's insanely hard to run this event deep? Because the rich casual guys have 0% chance of cashing so you're left with the absolute top top even near the bubble?
Perhaps you have had great table draws or just people who don't understand tournament strategy so they rather limp their 76o hoping it wont get bloated up and early on they can get a chance to win a big multi way pot. In may not be right but that might be what they are doing.
I think your overestimating the number of these casual rich players in today's poker climate but I guess we will agree to disagree on it.
Yes I had 2 HORRID players at my table this year. And not surprisingly 7 players from my starting table are now in the top 15 as a result of battering these guys and getting a lot of chips to play with.
Also I was told a couple years back the 6 max was going to be filled with all of the online superstars of 6 max . I ran like god on day 1 and was 1st or second in chips but if I remember correctly my starting table was unreal as in good and even if I ran average I would have had a lot of chips. Even on day 2 when I was eliminated around 40th near the bubble the play was better but there was still some value but the play is certainly tighter
There is def less money in poker now but that goes for the pros too so there are less of them tooPerhaps you have had great table draws or just people who don't understand tournament strategy so they rather limp their 76o hoping it wont get bloated up and early on they can get a chance to win a big multi way pot. In may not be right but that might be what they are doing.
I think your overestimating the number of these casual rich players in today's poker climate but I guess we will agree to disagree on it.
If Chen and Bonomo are the weak spots I kind of don't wanna play.
I don't blame you for not wanting to play vs Bonomo or Chen but they weren't the weak spots at my table but they certainly weren't forces either.
Also as far as having average or tough players at your table that is fine as long as you have some weaker players to balance it off usually
Also both of those dudes are very smart guys and have a few bracelets between them. But I am fairly confident right now both would probably be losing players at mid stakes limit hold em online. Maybe they would figure it out over time (most likely) but right now I don't think they could win. I would also suspect a lot of players people think are "tough" would have the toughest of times breaking even let alone winning and showing a profit
It's official, 4 of 12 players from my starting table made the final table.
Sam Golbuff a good friend of mine (and member of this forum) from the limit community is 3rd in chips. I met up with him for a couple beers the other night (he also had 20% or so of me) and he wasn't going to play this event. He was going to wait and play the $3k PLOHL today but a guy we were with had such a good feeling he was going to win this event he offered to plunk down some of the buyin so he would play it. Well that guy made a good call I guess. At the time the guy was boozing it up and just ran $1500 to $25,000 in blackjack and when we showed up to meet him he was very certain about this feeling of Sam winning. He also tried to buy a big piece of me but I was sold out
Hey op, don't you think this was an overly optimistic thread
*giggling*
after much debate I bet david baker my 525 to his 375 on the final table, he got his 2 buddies the chipleaders who had 39 % of chips going into final table and I got the field. Field won
the hate is strong in this thread
I can feel the butthurt floooowing through them.
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