Mike Matusow given 1-round penalty for "outrageous behavior" -- but was it right?

[Dan Druff]

http://f5poker.com/poker-news/2014/6...top-pros-lend/

Interesting how usually "name pros" get treated with favortism. This is a case where people are saying that Mike SHOULD have gotten favortism because he was just being himself and wasn't hurting anyone with his enthusiasm.

I like Matusow, but here is the more pertinent question:

If John Smith the unknown player celebrated the way Matusow did, would he have gotten a penalty? Would anyone have objected if he was given one?

If it would have been okay to see John Smith the unknown get a penalty for excessive celebration, it should be okay to give one to Mike Matusow. I really hate the prevailing attitude that guys like Hellmuth are penalty-proof because they are big names.

[nunbeater]

Without reading that article or your post I am gonna say yes

[BUBBLES]

http://t.co/V3fOPA1WP8
DANIEL - POKER JOURNAL
Mike Matusow Deserves An Apology Big Time!
13 Jun 2014

I'm going to keep this short, but I feel like I need to speak up, and speak out against a decision made by a floorman at the WSOP named Dave Lamb. To make a long story short, Mikey was all in and deep in a tournament. He needed help and was being himself, a loud, sometimes childish and obnoxious guy that most people who watch TV love to see, while others may not like his antics. It's typical Mike "The Mouth" acting like he has at the WSOP for 10+ years.

He ends up winning the pot, doesn't berate anyone in the tournament, then celebrates loudly away from the table. Then, out of the blue Dave Lamb crosses the line of his duties in a big way by issuing Mike a one round penalty in the late stages of the game. This wouldn't even happen in sports, as refs are typically very careful to call tacky fouls or penalties late in the game, and Mike's "outburst" hurt no one.

For the sake of argument, let's just say that Mike was guilty of excessive celebration according to the TDA rules. How in the world can you justify such a harsh penalty without issuing a simple warning prior to that decision? A simple, "Hey Mike, you have been warned. If you do that again you will get a one round penalty for excessive celebration."

This is consistent with a major problem I have with quite a few of the TDA rules that go straight to a penalty without giving the players the benefit of the doubt, and the courtesy of a warning.

That needs to change. I don't know how to make it change, but I needed to say something. We need to stop taking ourselves so seriously. Dave Lamb thought Mike celebrated excessively. Several of the players in the tournament disagreed and showed their support for Mike via twitter. Unfortunately, that can't be reversed at this point, but I'm hoping that in the future we can all agree that a TD shouldn't have such a heavy influence on the outcome of a tournament, ESPECIALLY without first issuing a warning. I can't think of a good argument for punishing players so severely without a just, stern, and fair warning.


Too many of these automatic penalties hurt the amateur players in a big way. A couple examples:

1. Checking the nuts in position. It's typically novice players who overlook their hand, or are just lost in the moment that do this. For example, a board reads KQJT and it's checked to them and they check with the Ace without thinking. Giving him a penalty for this is absurd. ONE warning is sufficient, and if he does it again, a penalty is in order.

2. Turning your hand over before the action is done. This is ALWAYS an error by the player turning over his hand usually in a raising war where he believes that the two players are all in. Example: Player A bets 25k and Player B says raise and puts out 75k. Player A, thinking he is all in, quickly says call and turns his hand face up before the river is dealt. Not only does he suffer the penalty of having to play his cards face up for the rest of the hand due to his error, he is ALSO issued a penalty according to TDA rules? Atrocious. This happened to Alberto Tomba in San Remo, and YEARS later he is still afraid to enter an EPT event because he isn't familiar with all the rules. A novice player scared away foolishly.

Poker is supposed to be fun guys, it's not war. There is no need for a Nazi like enforcement of rules that don't accomplish what they are designed to accomplish. If you are a tournament director, you would be wise to take a chill pill, keep it friendly, issue warnings followed by penalties when necessary, and do as little as possible to effect the outcome of tournaments that you haven't risked a penny to play.

[BetCheckBet]

Pretty sure this rule came into affect because of this...



and a little bit of this

[SrslySirius]

Mike Matusow is sitting in my studio right now telling his side of the story for the podcast. It's pretty interesting so far, I recommend checking it out later.

[simpdog]

Mike Matusow is sitting in my studio right now telling his side of the story for the podcast. It's pretty interesting so far, I recommend checking it out later.

Spammer. Druff please ban.

[SrslySirius]

Mike Matusow is sitting in my studio right now telling his side of the story for the podcast. It's pretty interesting so far, I recommend checking it out later.

Spammer. Druff please ban.

lol, I really did just happen to see this thread while he was sitting here.

 

[simpdog]

Mike Matusow is sitting in my studio right now telling his side of the story for the podcast. It's pretty interesting so far, I recommend checking it out later.

Spammer. Druff please ban.

also wouldn't it be poker karma if he wins the 10k plh?

Go mikey

[TheXFactor]

Is "excessive celebration" even in the TDA rule books anymore?
I think they got rid of the rule last year.

Can tournament directors just give you a penalty for anything, even if it no longer violates the rules?

Matusow should have just told him to fuck off.

[SrslySirius]

Is "excessive celebration" even in the TDA rule books anymore?
I think they got rid of the rule last year.

Can tournament directors just give you a penalty for anything, even if it no longer violates the rules?

Matusow should have just told him to fuck off.

The excessive celebration rule was instated after Hevad Khan godded it up at the 2007 WSOP. It was abolished 2 years ago. Mike just learned today that it's no longer a rule, and is even more pissed off about it.

[JSTAT]

Here is Mike Matusow celebrating a win at the 2011 WPT Bay 101 Shooting Star. Tournament Director Matt Savage was announcing the action and no penalty was given to "The Mouth". Savage just rolled his eyes when I looked at him after I filmed the rant.

[varys]

Who gives a shit? The real crime is the story at the bottom of that page saying nic cage might play matusow in his upcoming biopic.

[SrslySirius]

Mike is FIRED UP.

[bukowski72]

Who gives a shit? The real crime is the story at the bottom of that page saying nic cage might play matusow in his upcoming biopic.

This is a pic that Guns N Roses tweeted last week. Notice Nic's t-shirt and the Diceman...

...and the leather pants/chaps

[ftpjesus]

http://f5poker.com/poker-news/2014/6...top-pros-lend/

Interesting how usually "name pros" get treated with favortism. This is a case where people are saying that Mike SHOULD have gotten favortism because he was just being himself and wasn't hurting anyone with his enthusiasm.

I like Matusow, but here is the more pertinent question:

If John Smith the unknown player celebrated the way Matusow did, would he have gotten a penalty? Would anyone have objected if he was given one?

If it would have been okay to see John Smith the unknown get a penalty for excessive celebration, it should be okay to give one to Mike Matusow. I really hate the prevailing attitude that guys like Hellmuth are penalty-proof because they are big names.

Based on reading the one story plus a few other sources and twitter it seems to me this TD was wayyyyy outta line and over zealous.. Maybe Mike's previous history had something to do with it. Or maybe the TD just felt the need to pull out his cock and pistol whip Mike.. Hell even the people at his own table disagreed with the ruling.. When pretty much everybody but the TD agrees this was a bad call its just that a bad call.. Mike wasn't even at the table when he got all excited he was away from the table according to reports.. I mean hell Mikes poker career is such a roller coaster at times who can blame the guy for being excited enough to likely be in a position to win a bracelet again.. To me the sad part is the whole penalty issue tilted Mike so badly (which given his mental stability at times isn't surprising) he bombed out of the tourney shortly there after (I doubt he lost that much of his stack to crush his stack in one rotation even with antes on each hand)..

I mean sure the rules exist for a reason and what not but for God's sake just because you can use a sledgehammer to kll a fly doesn't mean its the appropriate tool at the time.. TDs are supposed to use their fucking brains otherwise what's the point of having them.. Just like cops have the discretion not to issue a ticket or a county/state atty has the option not to prosecute or move forward with a case because its the right thing to do in the end.. We had a guy here recently killed his wife in mercy killing she was terminally ill and had made her wishes clear so he did what he thought was right and ended her suffering by shooting her.. Ok under the law that could be considered 1st degree murder which s life w/o parole or death penalty in AZ.. It was reduced to voluntary manslaughter and the guy got probation (he was in his late 80s as I recall).

[chinamaniac]

Looks like that guy fucked him over hard as Excessive Celebration is no longer a violation according to Mike.

[limitles]

http://t.co/V3fOPA1WP8
DANIEL - POKER JOURNAL
Mike Matusow Deserves An Apology Big Time!
13 Jun 2014

I'm going to keep this short, but I feel like I need to speak up, and speak out against a decision made by a floorman at the WSOP named Dave Lamb. To make a long story short, Mikey was all in and deep in a tournament. He needed help and was being himself, a loud, sometimes childish and obnoxious guy that most people who watch TV love to see, while others may not like his antics. It's typical Mike "The Mouth" acting like he has at the WSOP for 10+ years.

He ends up winning the pot, doesn't berate anyone in the tournament, then celebrates loudly away from the table. Then, out of the blue Dave Lamb crosses the line of his duties in a big way by issuing Mike a one round penalty in the late stages of the game. This wouldn't even happen in sports, as refs are typically very careful to call tacky fouls or penalties late in the game, and Mike's "outburst" hurt no one.



Poker is supposed to be fun guys, it's not war. There is no need for a Nazi like enforcement of rules that don't accomplish what they are designed to accomplish. If you are a tournament director, you would be wise to take a chill pill, keep it friendly, issue warnings followed by penalties when necessary, and do as little as possible to effect the outcome of tournaments that you haven't risked a penny to play.

I like the Mouth and Negraneau although I can't remember how to spell his last name.

Hard to to say about this penalty, not seeing it. But it sounds like a border guard power trip.
It's all part of this politically correct world.

My nephew got an excessive celebration penalty after scoring what looked like the game winning goal with less than two minutes to play in a tournament and he's the exact opposite of Mike Matusow. Needless to say the other team scored on that poweplay and won in overtime.

And the Nazi's can catch a break either it seems. Talk about your reputation preceding you.

[Brittney Griner's Clit]

He sprinted away and made a ruckus running around other tables that he deserves this (winning the tourney for about 45 seconds. That was all well and good, then he comes back to the table and gives it five hard slaps and started to rand another 30 seconds.

[NaturalBornHustler]

Apparently he cussed out the floorman, and had been warned before about his (seemingly meth/adderall induced) antics and ignored him.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-blog...61819-wsop-the

There has been so much inaccurate discussion regarding the penalty issued to Mike Matusow by Dave Lamb that I feel the need to add some facts. But first, I want to say a bit about my past.

Having been a criminal defense attorney for almost 30 years, the nature of my profession included constantly being embroiled in conflict. After many long years of constant conflict with judges, prosecutors, biased cops, lying witnesses or sometimes even unruly clients, I retired. Although I dearly miss being in court, one of the really nice benefits of retirement is not having a constant knot in my stomach because the game is never played completely fairly.

Retirement is peaceful and my poker hobby is fun and invigorating.

All that being said, I am going to be the lone voice supporting the WSOP’s decision to give Mike Matusow a penalty. And let it be known that I have NO desire whatsoever to be involved in this or any other controversy.

When the $2500 OE tournament got down to 24 people, there was a redraw. I was moved to a table with Mike Matusow. From the moment we were seated, the players were subject to Mike’s constant stream of profanities. Whatever subject he was discussing included expletives such as Mike saying he had the worst F***ING* luck or some other F***ER did this or some ASSHOLE did this F***ING BULLSHIT. It was as if the table was his personal stage. His loud, fast-talking, ill-mannered, vulgar barrage was almost frantic like someone who had WAY too much coffee.

After listening to about 10 minutes of non- stop swearing, I started looking around for a floorman, to see if someone would tell Mike that his constant stream of vulgarities lacked civility and he needed to ramp it down. That never happened nor did the dealer say anything. At the time, I thought this was a mistake on behalf of the WSOP because if Mike had been put in his place, perhaps things would not have escalated. Recently I learned some additional facts I will address later.

On the hand in question, Mike was involved in a 3-way stud pot. Mike raised on 4th street, and while waiting for one of the players to act, Mike was staring at the player and mumbling something to him. The player was to my right and asked me what Mike was saying and if Mike was taunting him. Eventually that player folded.

After Mike won the pot, he started screaming he was the greatest F***ING player in the world, no one F***ING deserved this like he did, etc. He pounded on the table making the chips shake and then started running around the room whooping, hollering, yelling, jumping and swearing.

A number of players at the table who were obviously fed up with Mike’s shenanigans eventually called the floorman and asked about Mike’s excessive celebration.

IT WAS THE PLAYERS WHO COMPLAINED. Now why would the good folks at the table do that? Clearly Mike had been out of line since the redraw. So after he won the pot and continued his loud, foul-mouthed unruly behavior, some players finally had enough and complained.

Dave Lamb came over to the table to see what the commotion was about. He did not walk over and issue a penalty. He came over and asked what had happened. Immediately Mike got up into Dave’s face. Dave calmly asked Mike to step away from the table to discuss what had happened. Mike started going nuts.

Dave calmly, quietly but firmly asked Mike a number of times to step away from the table. Not only did Mike refuse to move from the table, he was up in Dave’s face yelling and cursing with his normal diatribe of vulgarities bellowing something like you can’t F***ING give me a BULLSHIT F***ING penalty; that would be the worst F***ING ruling in the history of poker. (with emphasis on the word F***ING.) It was only at that point that Dave Lamb quietly said NOW I am giving you a one round penalty.

Hurray! FINALLY someone said enough is enough.

I’m pretty sure the penalty was NOT for excessive celebration, but rather for getting into the face of a floorman and loudly swearing at him when the floorman was simply gathering the facts and accessing the situation. At least that was the moment when the penalty was finally issued.

I recently learned (from an interview Mike gave) that hours earlier, Mike DID receive a warning from Dave Lamb for his foul language. Although he received a warning, he ignored it and continued his constant stream of expletives.

What was also not reported was that during the one round penalty, Mike came back to the table STILL swearing, threatening and saying it was the worst F***ING BULLSHIT penalty in the history of the WSOP.

I said to Mike that he probably didn’t realize that every other word out of his mouth was the F Bomb. He replied that the rule changed and he was ALLOWED to swear as much as he wanted as long as it was not directed at a specific person.

Therein lies the entire problem. Even after the warning, Mike still believed it was okay to be vulgar as long as it was not directed at a specific person.

Rule 39B of the 2014 Official tournament Rules states that players are entitled to civility. Now that must mean something. More on point, Rule 45 states:

“Rio prohibits the use of obscene or foul language in any public area of the casino at any time. Any participant who uses such language or makes a foul, profane, obscene or vulgar statement, or speaks abusively or in an intimidating manner to another participant, a dealer or a Tournament staff member, will be penalized.”

I have read that Mike is on some kind of meds from which he is having a bad reaction and for that, I feel for the guy. However, I paid the same amount of money to enter the tournament and worked as hard to get that far. I’m trying to win another bracelet just like he is. It’s not the Mike Matusow show where he can vomit his vulgarities all over the room. He was loud, insolent, out of control and completely ill-mannered.

Another point that hasn’t been mentioned was that Mike only missed 6 stud hands. When we switched to Omaha, it was Mike’s big blind and even though he should have missed two more hands, Mike sat down, telling the dealer that the round was over. I am 100 percent positive that 8 hands had not been dealt because when Mike got the penalty it was the second stud hand and I counted, thinking that Mike would go nuts when we switched to Omaha and he had to sit out during his blinds. Instead he kept coming to the table, arguing and talking and swearing and complaining. It was classic Mike. I don’t think anyone wanted to have to deal with him anymore so the dealer just dealt him in. It was stressful for the entire table but no one said anything.

So when folks criticize Dave Lamb, at least know the facts: A player was loud, vulgar, yelling, swearing and up in the face of a mild mannered floorman who thereafter issued a penalty after previously having issued a warning.

Had the facts simply been that Mike was engaged in excessive celebration, I wholeheartedly agree that a penalty would have been totally outrageous!

Let me also add that the Shulmans have been friends and supporters of both Mike and Dave. I hope they are each successful in their endeavors. But in this instance, Mike was completely out of control and deserved exactly what he got. Sorry Mike.

[rum dick]

Matusow is a whiny cunt who cant handle his adderall.

Also, he couldn't seal the deal with kathy griffin and that chick is a slut.

So.

Fuck him right in his gook face.