Caesar's credit rating lowered two more notches by Standard and Poor's

[Dan Druff]

http://www.casino.org/news/standard-...-credit-rating

According to a statement released by S&P credit analyst Melissa Long, even the sale of four casinos to the Caesars Growth Partners (CGP) subsidiary won’t provide relief from the $23 billion in long-term debt held by the parent company.

Long believes that Caesars may not be able to meet its $3.5 billion in debt obligations that will mature in 2015. These factors saw Caesars’ corporate credit rating drop from CCC+ to CCC-, keeping it in junk grade territory.

Cash flow has been a growing problem for Caesars in recent years. According to data from Bloomberg, Caesars burned $730.5 million in cash last year, up from $497.5 million the year before. According to the S&P analysis, Caesars is likely to spend another $1.2 billion in cash this year to meet their expenses. The company has failed to show a profit in any year since 2009.

As a frequent and active customer of Caesar's Entertainment over the past several years, none of this is a surprise. It is amazing how incompetent they are, across several fronts.

I have $2300+ in reward credits there, which are comp dollars. I wonder if I should spend them before they are rendered useless.

[Benford]

http://www.casino.org/news/standard-...-credit-rating

Cash flow has been a growing problem for Caesars in recent years. According to data from Bloomberg, Caesars burned $730.5 million in cash last year, up from $497.5 million the year before. According to the S&P analysis, Caesars is likely to spend another $1.2 billion in cash this year to meet their expenses. The company has failed to show a profit in any year since 2009.

As a frequent and active customer of Caesar's Entertainment over the past several years, none of this is a surprise. It is amazing how incompetent they are, across several fronts.

I have $2300+ in reward credits there, which are comp dollars. I wonder if I should spend them before they are rendered useless.

If CET were to declare bankruptcy would you be considered one of their creditors because of the RC's you hold? Not sure. Even if you were, though, there would be a long line of creditors ahead of you (ie. senior bondholders).

[Dan Druff]

http://www.casino.org/news/standard-...-credit-rating




As a frequent and active customer of Caesar's Entertainment over the past several years, none of this is a surprise. It is amazing how incompetent they are, across several fronts.

I have $2300+ in reward credits there, which are comp dollars. I wonder if I should spend them before they are rendered useless.

If CET were to declare bankruptcy would you be considered one of their creditors because of the RC's you hold? Not sure. Even if you were, though, there would be a long line of creditors ahead of you (ie. senior bondholders).

No, RCs are considered "promotional" and have no real value.

Caesar's could actually confiscate them at any time for any reason, and I would have no recourse.

[shortbuspoker]

I have $2300+ in reward credits there, which are comp dollars. I wonder if I should spend them before they are rendered useless.

Set up a PFA party at one of their restaurants during the WSOP and charge a cover.

[BeerAndPoker]

Even though they can take my guess is they will give people at least some notice but since your headed to the WSOP that would be a good time to use them.

[WillieMcFML]

use some of your rewards credits to get me a room for a few days in july during the main

i give you cash in envelope

[handicapme]

http://www.casino.org/news/standard-...-credit-rating

Cash flow has been a growing problem for Caesars in recent years. According to data from Bloomberg, Caesars burned $730.5 million in cash last year, up from $497.5 million the year before. According to the S&P analysis, Caesars is likely to spend another $1.2 billion in cash this year to meet their expenses. The company has failed to show a profit in any year since 2009.

As a frequent and active customer of Caesar's Entertainment over the past several years, none of this is a surprise. It is amazing how incompetent they are, across several fronts.

I have $2300+ in reward credits there, which are comp dollars. I wonder if I should spend them before they are rendered useless.

You would have a claim, however you'd be below equity holders which means you would more than likely get 0. Our research analyst believes that the reward card is one of caesar's most valuable assets so even throughout bankruptcy (which everyone is trying to avoid since they would be in bankruptcy court for years) they would honor the amount as an operating liability since they would want to retain you as a customer. Your $2300 is fine, btw you may want to check up on what they're doing with the different Opcos... some shadyyyyyyyy shit.

[Shizzmoney]

I have $2300+ in reward credits there, which are comp dollars. I wonder if I should spend them before they are rendered useless.

I would immediately.......they could gaffe them, PokerStars FPP style.

Caesar's is *so* levered up in debt, around $20 billion or so, thank to MIT grad Gary Loveman's excellent decision to buy up land left and right during the RS boom in a play to become a monopoly (and get in bed potentially with the Russian mob in the process, costing them the Boston bid), as well as have financial instruments like commercial real estate derivatives tied to that debt. They've de-leveraged around 3-5% of it over the last 3 years, but they are still in super huge debt and sitting these properties that have problems drawing patron volume, never mind patron gambling participation.

But Gary has no problem going on CNBC and advocating to cut social security because the "country is too much in debt".

When Foxwoods was found to be in their debt hole, they cut everything: worker wages, buses, comps, etc. Foxwoods, IMO, will be completely bought out by MGM in 10-12 years. Caesar's at least can liquidate if it every got to Foxwoods' levels.

Caesar's may take a similar route, especially with the income situation as it is for young people (in debt) and the male demographic (a working male 30 years ago makes more after you factor in inflation), dragging down consumer spending (the majority of the consumer "spending" in April was from "services" like NetFlix, Obamacare, Utility bills, and not retail sales).

[Dan Druff]

I have $2300+ in reward credits there, which are comp dollars. I wonder if I should spend them before they are rendered useless.

I would immediately.......they could gaffe them, PokerStars FPP style.

Caesar's is *so* levered up in debt, around $20 billion or so, thank to MIT grad Gary Loveman's excellent decision to buy up land left and right during the RS boom in a play to become a monopoly (and get in bed potentially with the Russian mob in the process, costing them the Boston bid), as well as have financial instruments like commercial real estate derivatives tied to that debt. They've de-leveraged around 3-5% of it over the last 3 years, but they are still in super huge debt and sitting these properties that have problems drawing patron volume, never mind patron gambling participation.

But Gary has no problem going on CNBC and advocating to cut social security because the "country is too much in debt".

When Foxwoods was found to be in their debt hole, they cut everything: worker wages, buses, comps, etc. Foxwoods, IMO, will be completely bought out by MGM in 10-12 years. Caesar's at least can liquidate if it every got to Foxwoods' levels.

Caesar's may take a similar route, especially with the income situation as it is for young people (in debt) and the male demographic (a working male 30 years ago makes more after you factor in inflation), dragging down consumer spending (the majority of the consumer "spending" in April was from "services" like NetFlix, Obamacare, Utility bills, and not retail sales).

I'm interested in the Foxwoods story.

You say they "cut worker wages, buses, comps", but did they actually take away anyone's banked comps? Or do they not have a banked-comp system like Caesar's does?

Basically I can spend my $2300 in RCs in these ways:

- Food (I do this, but I don't want to needlessly waste them on food I don't really want or need)

- Hotel rooms (I get free rooms as a Seven Stars member, though there are a few occasions I might need them for second rooms). I REALLY hate using these for hotel rooms, though. I feel like I'm wasting it.

- Gift shop (total waste)

- Starwood property stays (but I don't really have a need to go to any Starwood properties any time soon)

- Freeplay at $4 per $5 in RCs redeemed (that is, I lose 20% value right off the bat). Also, freeplay doesn't have full value, as you have to play -EV games to turn it into cash.

- Shows. I get some of the Caesar's shows for free, and the others I have some interest in seeing, but only when Ben's mom is with me and we have someone in Vegas to watch Ben (which is rare).


So if I'm going to blow my RCs, I'll probably just go the freeplay route, though I still feel it's a bit of a waste.

[Shizzmoney]

I'm interested in the Foxwoods story.

You say they "cut worker wages, buses, comps", but did they actually take away anyone's banked comps? Or do they not have a banked-comp system like Caesar's does?

They didn't cut anyone's current banked comps, they just changed the system where they aren't as generous anymore towards future ones. I also know that they cut the time from when the comps are available to you (I think you have a year or so to spend them).

This is from an article written about Foxwoods and the vice president of the casino:

Revenues have continued to fall at Foxwoods, as they have for the last half-dozen years. But lately, the casino’s profits have been increasing. “We changed our focus to profitability,” Butera said, which sounds a little like something out of a story in The Onion. (The previous focus was on unprofitability?). But what he meant was that Foxwoods had stopped chasing unproductive customers — table-game players whose perks added up to more than their losses — just to increase traffic.

"Next we need to look at skill level versus patron profitability. The reality is that some customers are very highly skilled Black Jack, Craps or Roulette players and or they are excellent money managers and understand all of the advantages to their benefit. Please don’t misunderstand me. As long as the customer is not cheating, I really don’t have a problem or issues with letting someone play in our casino. Obviously we have protective measures to counteract card counting but otherwise skill level is another issue that needs to be addressed separately."

"This is a huge problem in casinos today. Controlling comps is not easy. Controlling comps issued to highly skilled, non-profitable customers is critical. To accomplish this at Foxwoods, we formed a Comp Review Committee that meets on a regular basis to review such problems and patrons. We utilize internal reports to generate what we call our Red Flag Report. This report consists of a list of players whose play and profitability fall outside of pre-determined criteria or variances."

In a nutshell, they're saying players who are smart enough break even consistantly should be considered winners because the casino comps them. So they
have a committee that ferrets them out and punishes them. Can you believe this crap? Casinos are always saying 'We LOVE winners, we don't care when players
win!' When the truth is, not only do they HATE winners, they don't even tolerate people who play outside the comp variance. Its just as I've always said, casinos want every dime you have, they feel entitled to it. This is how casinos really think.

[Sanlmar]

I have been amused by Druff's complaints about Caesar's poor service.

I usually just dismissed my response as jealously toward a fellow who has so many options given his location and moved on.

Shizz's post is excellent, of course, and got me fired up.

Foxwoods, largest casino in North America, had a virtual monopoly and the need for customer service and any spirit of competition was completely unnecessary and non-existent. Druff probably cannot fathom that this isn't just hyperbole. But arrogance and indifference were what you accepted if you wanted to sit in a 100 table poker room.

Foxwoods' financial catastrophe is complex but most mark the construction of the massive MGM tower whose doors opened just as the housing market cratered and Lehman Brothers failed as the moment Foxwoods went into free fall.

In 2010 Foxwoods hired their 7th Chief Executive since 2007, Scott Butera from the Tropicana. Allegedly a turnaround artist.

I remember shortly thereafter a cash for rewards card points program.. It was a while ago. I remember getting about a $1000 for my points. They were banked comps. Never expired.

The climate is so miserable there that I had long since sworn off Foxwoods for Mohegan. As I get older I actually do like to have a good time when gambling it up, be it poker or pits. It ain't all business anymore. I never followed up on the comp program and ensuing changes. Fuck em. I have zero interest.

So I stopped by - grabbed my cash and really never looked back.

Edit: maybe China can clarify what that program was about & what you might hope for

[Sanlmar]

Caesars Entertainmant CZR announces earnings after hours Weds, May 7th

A tender offer for certain debt securities was announced after hours Tues.

CZR will be twerking around tomorrow on this news and anticipation of earnings and conference call. May be an opportunity here. I actually feel this could have some good juice. We will see.

There have never been any underage traders reported scalping CZR.

Edit: there was some after market action +$1 ..... Most of the action will be at the open - maybe a gap up then some selling into that.

Be sure to get your lazy ass outta bed DJ.

[handicapme]

Todd if it makes you feel any better CZR sold a 5% stake to a private company stripping the guarantee on their debt. They also issued a $1.5bn term loan to pay off 2015 obligations. Essentially what they did was make sure they survive atleast until mid 2016 and tell their debt holders for 2016+ if you don't work with me when the time comes we're going to fuck you. Don't pay attention to earnings or anything, you're 100% safe until Jan 5th 2016 (I BELIEVE that's their first coupon payment of the year, but I have to double check). Either way you have a good 18 months before you even have to start worrying about this.

[Sanlmar]

Caesars Entertainmant CZR announces earnings after hours Weds, May 7th

A tender offer for certain debt securities was announced after hours Tues.

CZR will be twerking around tomorrow on this news and anticipation of earnings and conference call. May be an opportunity here. I actually feel this could have some good juice. We will see.

There have never been any underage traders reported scalping CZR.

Edit: there was some after market action +$1 ..... Most of the action will be at the open - maybe a gap up then some selling into that.

Be sure to get your lazy ass outta bed DJ.

The action was pretty much as predicted.

Spike up early and then people sold into that to avoid earnings tonight.



I caught $21.77 down to 21.30 here for +.47 Looks like it's done until later this afternoon before close.

May have formed an Island Bottom on the daily. Good volume either side.

[uthglitch]

Hey Todd,

Why not spend some of your rc's on users during the WSOP?
Kinda of a rhetorical question. Being that you're a cheap fuc*ING jew. I know it would KILL you to spend a couple hundred on users that fuel your forum. After all you did acquire these rc's illegally.

[simpdog]

Hey Todd,

Why not spend some of your rc's on users during the WSOP?
Kinda of a rhetorical question. Being that you're a cheap fuc*ING jew. I know it would KILL you to spend a couple hundred on users that fuel your forum. After all you did acquire these rc's illegally.

Todd a cheap f'n jew. Yes we all agree.

Acquiring points illegally? Please expand.

[uthglitch]

Hey Todd,

Why not spend some of your rc's on users during the WSOP?
Kinda of a rhetorical question. Being that you're a cheap fuc*ING jew. I know it would KILL you to spend a couple hundred on users that fuel your forum. After all you did acquire these rc's illegally.

Todd a cheap f'n jew. Yes we all agree.

Acquiring points illegally? Please expand.

simp.

I phrased the post incorrectly. Illegally was the wrong word. Unethical is better. For a man like Todd who claims to be the "people's champion" he scammed Caesars for thousands and is so smug about it. I know that the forum licks, sucks and fondles Todd's nutsack. Hence nobody will refute this claim. But getting back to the original point. Throwing a party with rc's that he NEVER earned would never cross the mind of that self absorbed and narcissistic ass hole owner of this site.

[Dan Druff]

Hey Todd,

Why not spend some of your rc's on users during the WSOP?
Kinda of a rhetorical question. Being that you're a cheap fuc*ING jew. I know it would KILL you to spend a couple hundred on users that fuel your forum. After all you did acquire these rc's illegally.

I didn't acquire these RCs illegally.

You are again spouting off foolishness.

BTW, I lose money on this forum every month. Notice there are no sponsors. That Amazon banner literally makes me a few dollars per month.

I spend way more than "a couple hundred" on this forum every year, and that's not including all the time I put into it.

The users here know that I appreciate them, and in fact listen to all constructive criticism regarding the site and the radio show with an open mid.

[Dan Druff]

Todd a cheap f'n jew. Yes we all agree.

Acquiring points illegally? Please expand.

simp.

I phrased the post incorrectly. Illegally was the wrong word. Unethical is better. For a man like Todd who claims to be the "people's champion" he scammed Caesars for thousands and is so smug about it. I know that the forum licks, sucks and fondles Todd's nutsack. Hence nobody will refute this claim. But getting back to the original point. Throwing a party with rc's that he NEVER earned would never cross the mind of that self absorbed and narcissistic ass hole owner of this site.

This is also untrue. I did not acquire RCs unethically or illegally. You seem to be under the impression that I pulled some trick on Caesar's, but in reality that is false. I did not scam them in any way, either ethically or legally.

[Dan Druff]

And before you say, "You have no sponsors because nobody wants to sponsor this place", think again.

I could be making plenty of money through shady casino ads, shady sportsbook ads, and various online poker affiliate programs.

I accepted none of these, because I want to protect the integrity of this site, and that is more important to me than making money.