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Thread: Yet another "Sexism is Keeping Women Out of Poker" article on Cardplayer

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    Yet another "Sexism is Keeping Women Out of Poker" article on Cardplayer

    http://cardplayerlifestyle.com/why-d...te-for-change/

    If you don't feel like reading the article, the cliffs are very simple: Men are sexist assholes at the poker table, and this is the main factor keeping women out of the game.

    Surprisingly, this article was not written by one of the feminists in the poker media, but rather a dude named Robbie Strazynski.

    I disagree with the basic premise of the article.

    I will concede that there is plenty of sexism in poker. There are men at the table who feel women "don't belong". There are men who don't take losing against women very well. There are men who have a hard time facing rejection when making romantic overtures to women at the table. All of this especially increases when alcohol is involved.

    Do I believe that such behavior has driven some women away from poker? Yes.

    Do I believe that, absent of such treatment, we would see a huge increase in the number of women at the table? Not at all.

    The important factor being ignored by this article is how many women have tried playing in the first place. After all, to be driven from the game, you need to have played the game at least once. I assert that a large percentage of women have never tried poker, and another big group of them tried and just didn't find it that interesting, for reasons having nothing to do with sexism.

    The bottom line is that, for the most part, women just have much less interest in poker than men. There are, of course, exceptions, but in general poker appeals far more to men.

    There are some major differences in the sexes -- some societal, some natural, which predispose our genders to different preferences in recreational activities. For example. you see almost no men in needlepoint. Even if the social stigma of men doing needlepoint were removed, you still wouldn't get many men interested in it. The activity of needlepoint is simply not something likely to appeal to men. Similarly, something like playing football will never appeal to many women. Men and women are different, and there's nothing sexist about saying and acknowledging that.

    So why is it so hard to accept that poker might just be a game that appeals more to men?

    Benjamin's mom is a good example of a woman with zero interest to play poker. She is a very smart woman, and in fact has a mathematically-oriented mind, and could probably learn to play the game well. However, she has no interest. It's just not something that appeals to her at all. She understands it enough to watch me play, but she doesn't have the desire to play a single hand of it. I have to assume that the vast majority of women feel this way. They aren't keeping away from poker because of sexism at the tables, and in fact most of them aren't even aware of such sexism, because they've never even tried to play. They just don't want to.

    Something that has annoyed me over the last 2 decades has been the politically correct notion that there is no difference between the wants, desires, and abilities in the human sexes. Anything enjoyed by a male has to be equally enjoyed by a female, and if you say otherwise, you're a sexist. Any skill possessed by males has to be equally present in females. It's just not true. The sexes are very different, and while there are outliers, it is ignoring reality to state that women are staying out of poker simply because of sexism.

    Finally, the article ignores some advantages enjoyed by women at the table, especially attractive women. Men will often soft-play women, hoping to gain their favor. It's much easier to get staked if you're a woman (provided you're under 40 and at least average looking), for the same reason. It's far easier to get sponsored if you're female, again especially if you are under 40 and at least semi-attractive. While women face some challenges from sexism at the poker table, they also can gain from their gender, as well.

     
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      GrenadaRoger: imho should blog this as well as post

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    BUMP

    Turns out the guy who wrote this doesn't even write for Cardplayer.

    He runs a BLOG called "Cardplayer Lifestyle", and people like Vanessa Selbst were misled into participating, believing he wrote for Cardplayer Magazine.

    He never told anyone he is affiliated with Cardplayer Magazine, but everyone automatically assumes it for obvious reasons.

    He's had the blog since 2009.

    He admitted on 2+2 that people sometimes get "confused" about the naming similarity of his site, and that "Cardplayer Magazine has been aware since 2011, as I have e-mails from them about it." Yeah, he has e-mails -- probably demanding he change his blog's name! I'm sure Cardplayer Magazine isn't happy about this.

    Not that I feel sorry for Cardplayer Magazine, given their scumbaggery with knowingly advertising the Lock Poker scam, but still... this really makes the guy look shady.

    He responded with a long diatribe on 2+2 (his article wasn't well received at all), making excuses for everything.

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    It would be interesting to hear Vicky Coren's thoughts on this.

    Her landmark double EPT win in San Remo last night has made mainstream news headlines here in the UK where she's a well known media personality for non-poker reasons. Vickys success is a shot in the arm for UK poker in general, especially for womens poker.

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    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryQQQ View Post
    It would be interesting to hear Vicky Coren's thoughts on this.

    Her landmark double EPT win in San Remo last night has made mainstream news headlines here in the UK where she's a well known media personality for non-poker reasons. Vickys success is a shot in the arm for UK poker in general, especially for womens poker.
    Vicky's got 2 things going for her and not just her huge tits.

    1) She's a sponsored poker player. PokerStars wanted to expand their presence in England, so since she is a poker writer, they gave her free entries into EPT events. After she won EPT London, PokerStars officially sponsored her.

    2) Since she's British, she doesn't have to pay taxes on gambling winnings.

    Because she won, it might encourage more women to play poker but you real won't see much of an increase at big buy-in events. $10,000 is still a lot of money to enter a poker tourney.

    Vicky did get very lucky at the final table, especially considering she was the short stack.
    But she has adapted her game very well to play against these overly aggressive Euro donks.

    What happened to the prize money?
    When Liv Boeree won EPT San Remo several years ago, she won $1.6 million dollars.
    Vicky won only $657K for her San Remo win?



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    When you look at all the big MTT wins by females they seem to come outside of the USA. This is good of course for Europe,etc. but since their have been several winners it's not really that uncommon anymore.

    A couple years ago when the two girls at the WSOP finished 10th and 11th in the main event that could have been huge if one went deep at the final table or hell even just made it with the time in between. The WSOP is the biggest time of the year and until more women are playing open events, winning a few a year, or one makes the final table at the WSOP in the current age in poker then it's going to be tough to get them interested.

    It sucks you have to rely on tournaments for making a name in poker in most cases (not everyone is Tom Dwan) instead cash but lets face it that is the way it's always been for making a name in the game, getting sponsorships,etc...

    As for female players I have no problem playing against them but I'm not going to be that guy who takes a girl to a poker game and bankrolls her which inevitably is burning money.

    If anything the girls in poker should be pushing more for their non-poker friends to try it out and give them some basic beginner advice which could bring more into the game.

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    Platinum nunbeater's Avatar
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    I love seeing women at the poker table and playing against them because usually, they are fucking terrible.

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    Gold Corrigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunbeater View Post
    I love seeing women at the poker table and playing against them because usually, they are fucking terrible.

    To be fair, most of the men at the poker table are terrible also
    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83
    I'm going to come across as a bit of a douche but I really know more about this then anyone on this board by miles.

    ...if Trump is nominee he wins Presidency easily. Angry Blue Collar Whites will have record turnout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheXFactor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GaryQQQ View Post
    It would be interesting to hear Vicky Coren's thoughts on this.

    Her landmark double EPT win in San Remo last night has made mainstream news headlines here in the UK where she's a well known media personality for non-poker reasons. Vickys success is a shot in the arm for UK poker in general, especially for womens poker.
    Vicky's got 2 things going for her and not just her huge tits.

    1) She's a sponsored poker player. PokerStars wanted to expand their presence in England, so since she is a poker writer, they gave her free entries into EPT events. After she won EPT London, PokerStars officially sponsored her.

    2) Since she's British, she doesn't have to pay taxes on gambling winnings.

    Because she won, it might encourage more women to play poker but you real won't see much of an increase at big buy-in events. $10,000 is still a lot of money to enter a poker tourney.

    Vicky did get very lucky at the final table, especially considering she was the short stack.
    But she has adapted her game very well to play against these overly aggressive Euro donks.

    What happened to the prize money?
    When Liv Boeree won EPT San Remo several years ago, she won $1.6 million dollars.
    Vicky won only $657K for her San Remo win?


    Pics or GTFO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooh View Post



    Pics or GTFO
    She has a high variance ..
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    Robbie Strazynski is living the american dream. one story at a time.

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    Platinum nunbeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrigan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nunbeater View Post
    I love seeing women at the poker table and playing against them because usually, they are fucking terrible.

    To be fair, most of the men at the poker table are terrible also
    You know what, just everybody is fucking terrible at poker.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I have to give a thumbs up to Vicky Coren.

    When I showed up to the 2012 Main Event a few minutes late, I found my assigned table was empty and there was absolutely no indication as to where it had been moved. The entire section was empty.

    I asked a few floormen and dealers, and nobody had a clue. I walked around asking everyone I could find, and finally 10 minutes later, after I made a big deal about it, they found someone to direct me to another room.

    It turned out they made a single announcement at 12pm sharp, so if you were even a minute late, you had no clue where to go.

    When I finally got to my seat, I demanded they refund me the chips I had been blinded off (not from others' stacks, but just top up my stack back to starting). The supervising floorman was obnoxious and treated me like I was crazy and that they had done nothing wrong. "Get here on time next time," was his answer.

    Moments after the floorman walked away and I sat down frustrated, Vicky Coren walked in. She was also angry. She had just experienced the exact same thing I did. I told her that I was also a victim of the same Caesar's fail, and she said, "They should really give us our chips back." I told her I already tried and failed, and she expressed dismay and sat down. For some reason it made me feel like less of a nitty Jew to see that Vicky Coren experienced the same thing and felt the exact same way I did.

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    Why aren't more women in poker? It isn't sexist treatment. They deal with that their whole lives. IMO it is because there are a lot of rude assholes who play poker (if you don't believe me, just go to the Commerce and sit down at any table). Women tend to be more social than men. The confrontational aspect is a turnoff.

    I tried to get my wife to play. She was literally the tightest player you have ever seen. She hated losing. I remember being at the Mirage about 15 years ago. I put her in a 3/6 limit hold'em game. Her KK ran into AA and she lost her stack. Even the old Vegas grinder that won the hand felt sorry for her! She was devastated about losing $60. I was sitting behind a mountain of chips in the 20/40 game. I was running good and wasn't about to leave. I grabbed a stack off the table (in those days it wasn't a big deal) and told her to get back in the game. No way, she was done! I wish could get her to play. Even if she was a loser, it would be a lot cheaper than her trips to the malls when we go to Vegas.

    Some women just have the right temperament. My favorite is Barbra Enright. In 2002 we chopped up a limit hold'em tournament at the Golden Nugget like 8 ways. It was still early, so we all went over to Binions and got in a friendly 4/8 Omaha H/L game. Barbara comes off as a bit dour and sarcastic, but she has a quick wit and is very funny. She could dish it out as well as she could take it. No man was going to intimidate her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    Why aren't more women in poker? It isn't sexist treatment. They deal with that their whole lives. IMO it is because there are a lot of rude assholes who play poker (if you don't believe me, just go to the Commerce and sit down at any table). Women tend to be more social than men. The confrontational aspect is a turnoff.

    I tried to get my wife to play. She was literally the tightest player you have ever seen. She hated losing. I remember being at the Mirage about 15 years ago. I put her in a 3/6 limit hold'em game. Her KK ran into AA and she lost her stack. Even the old Vegas grinder that won the hand felt sorry for her! She was devastated about losing $60. I was sitting behind a mountain of chips in the 20/40 game. I was running good and wasn't about to leave. I grabbed a stack off the table (in those days it wasn't a big deal) and told her to get back in the game. No way, she was done! I wish could get her to play. Even if she was a loser, it would be a lot cheaper than her trips to the malls when we go to Vegas.

    Some women just have the right temperament. My favorite is Barbra Enright. In 2002 we chopped up a limit hold'em tournament at the Golden Nugget like 8 ways. It was still early, so we all went over to Binions and got in a friendly 4/8 Omaha H/L game. Barbara comes off as a bit dour and sarcastic, but she has a quick wit and is very funny. She could dish it out as well as she could take it. No man was going to intimidate her.

    If I were to actually entertain this debate, i'd have to come at it from the angle that women are more emotional and don't hide their tells very well. This says nothing of online play, where it's not remotely as obvious. Poker is also slow and boring, women inhabit that area of the casino with all the bright screens with 10,000 things flying across the screen with crazy music and sound effects. Not many men there (5%?). I think the other thing is that most women don't degen it up the way guys like to. I have no reasoning for the last point, but women just seem more pragmatic with money, despite shoe shopping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    Why aren't more women in poker? It isn't sexist treatment. They deal with that their whole lives. IMO it is because there are a lot of rude assholes who play poker (if you don't believe me, just go to the Commerce and sit down at any table). Women tend to be more social than men. The confrontational aspect is a turnoff.

    I tried to get my wife to play. She was literally the tightest player you have ever seen. She hated losing. I remember being at the Mirage about 15 years ago. I put her in a 3/6 limit hold'em game. Her KK ran into AA and she lost her stack. Even the old Vegas grinder that won the hand felt sorry for her! She was devastated about losing $60. I was sitting behind a mountain of chips in the 20/40 game. I was running good and wasn't about to leave. I grabbed a stack off the table (in those days it wasn't a big deal) and told her to get back in the game. No way, she was done! I wish could get her to play. Even if she was a loser, it would be a lot cheaper than her trips to the malls when we go to Vegas.

    Some women just have the right temperament. My favorite is Barbra Enright. In 2002 we chopped up a limit hold'em tournament at the Golden Nugget like 8 ways. It was still early, so we all went over to Binions and got in a friendly 4/8 Omaha H/L game. Barbara comes off as a bit dour and sarcastic, but she has a quick wit and is very funny. She could dish it out as well as she could take it. No man was going to intimidate her.
    I don't think women are staying away (for the most part) because there are rude assholes playing, but because of the other reasons you mentioned.

    Most don't like the confrontational/aggressive aspect of the game. I think it bothers them to have to beat other players out of the money, rather than beating the casino. As 4Dragons mentioned, women really like slot machines, and many also like pit games. I don't think they like beating other players out of money.

    It has been noted many times that the women's event at the WSOP has a very different atmosphere, as there is little bluffing, they are constantly showing cards after everyone folds, and generally everyone is sweet and friendly.

    Oddly enough, women are notoriously competitive and bitchy with each other in the workplace, but at the poker table it's totally different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I have to give a thumbs up to Vicky Coren.

    When I showed up to the 2012 Main Event a few minutes late, I found my assigned table was empty and there was absolutely no indication as to where it had been moved. The entire section was empty.

    I asked a few floormen and dealers, and nobody had a clue. I walked around asking everyone I could find, and finally 10 minutes later, after I made a big deal about it, they found someone to direct me to another room.

    It turned out they made a single announcement at 12pm sharp, so if you were even a minute late, you had no clue where to go.

    When I finally got to my seat, I demanded they refund me the chips I had been blinded off (not from others' stacks, but just top up my stack back to starting). The supervising floorman was obnoxious and treated me like I was crazy and that they had done nothing wrong. "Get here on time next time," was his answer.

    Moments after the floorman walked away and I sat down frustrated, Vicky Coren walked in. She was also angry. She had just experienced the exact same thing I did. I told her that I was also a victim of the same Caesar's fail, and she said, "They should really give us our chips back." I told her I already tried and failed, and she expressed dismay and sat down. For some reason it made me feel like less of a nitty Jew to see that Vicky Coren experienced the same thing and felt the exact same way I did.
    This isn't that nitty or jewy of you. You should have had her throw some of that tit weight of hers around for t200 in chips

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