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Thread: Ivey Being sued by Borgata

  1. #61
    ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) — Poker pro Phil Ivey and a companion must return more than $10 million they won from an Atlantic City casino while playing cards that were arranged in a certain way to give the players an edge.

    A federal judge had previously ruled Ivey and companion player Cheng Yin Sun didn't meet their obligation to follow gambling regulations on four occasions in 2012 by having a dealer at the Borgata arrange Baccarat cards so they could tell what kind of card was coming next.

    Last week the judge ordered the pair to return $10.1 million to the casino. The order by U.S. District Court Judge Noel Hillman essentially returned both sides to where they were before Ivey and Sun began gambling at the Borgata.

    The sum includes money that Ivey won playing craps with some of the money he won at the card table.

    "This case involves the whims of Lady Luck, who casts uncertainty on every hand, despite the house odds," Hillman wrote in his opinion. "Indeed, Lady Luck is like nectar to gamblers, because no one would otherwise play a game he knows he will always lose."
    .

    https://apnews.com/f9c4879674f04ca79...-in-cards-case
    http://www.miraclecovers.com

    "Donk down, that’s what you say to someone after they have lost 28K straight?" - Phil Hellmuth, online

  2. #62
    What happens if Phil Ivey can't and won't repay $10.1 million?

    Notice that Ivey hasn't been to a MGM resorts property for a long time.

    How soon before he's banned for life from going to "Ivey's Room" at Aria?

    The judge rejected a request by the Borgata that Ivey repay nearly $250,000 in comps — listed only as "goods and services" — the casino extended him while playing there.
    What comps did he receive besides free room, free food and free private plane?

    In 2010, Phil Ivey had a net worth of $50 million?



    Playing in Ivey's League
    http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfe...w/id/15470/p/3

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by TheXFactor View Post
    What happens if Phil Ivey can't and won't repay $10.1 million?

    Notice that Ivey hasn't been to a MGM resorts property for a long time.

    How soon before he's banned for life from going to "Ivey's Room" at Aria?

    The judge rejected a request by the Borgata that Ivey repay nearly $250,000 in comps — listed only as "goods and services" — the casino extended him while playing there.
    What comps did he receive besides free room, free food and free private plane?

    In 2010, Phil Ivey had a net worth of $50 million?



    Playing in Ivey's League
    http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfe...w/id/15470/p/3
    "Ivey's Room" is probably going to go away, and I say it will probably be either "PH's Room" (Phil Hellmuth, who is sponsored by Aria) or "Bellande's Room" (he's the ambassador for the big games there) within the next 2-3 years.

    Ivey's net worth in 2010 was probably around $50m......but that was before Full Tilt went donkdown. Once he lost that poker welfare, I think things changed and I can imagine it being hard for Phil (who was betting big on everything from poker to sports to craps) to keep up that volume like he did pre-Black Friday.

    I am sure if and when he has to payout that $10m, he'll declare bankruptcy or some type of Trump-style deleveraging legal vehicle to either get a haircut on the debt or get out all together, especially if he decides to appeal to higher courts.

    Ivey's not *broke* per se because he's a player who probably can get unlimited credit for poker whenever he wants.....but is he as liquid as in 2010? No way, IMO.
    http://www.miraclecovers.com

    "Donk down, that’s what you say to someone after they have lost 28K straight?" - Phil Hellmuth, online

  4. #64
    remember watching the aria super high roller cash game, whenever that was ('14 or '15?)...phil was in an all-in pot and he ran it 2 times...I don't think in the full tilt heyday he ever ran pots twice...that was pretty telling to me...pretty sure even for the GOAT ivey that when the full tilt teet stopped crapping out cash it stung...

  5. #65
    "What this ruling says is a player is prohibited from combining his skill and intellect and visual acuity to beat the casino at its own game," he said, adding Ivey will appeal the ruling soon. "The casino agreed to every single accommodation requested by Phil Ivey in his four visits because they were eager to try to win his money."
    Did Phil Ivey sell the casino marked cards?
    No, they fucked up by not checking if they were marked.

    Why would a high-roller play at the Borgata after this now?

    If the casino screws up and you win, they get to take all your winnings back.

    To be clear, noticing a flaw in the cards and exploting it is legal.
    It is illegal if you create that advantage yourself.

    All these table games are designed for one thing, which is for you to lose.



  6. #66
    Poker player loses court battle over £7.7m winnings from London casino
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017...-london-casino

    American Phil Ivey sued over baccarat game after owners of Crockfords Club claimed ‘edge-sorting’ technique was illegitimate


    The decision in the case brought by Phil Ivey was described as one of the most significant in criminal law for a generation.

    The poker player Phil Ivey has lost his court bid to recover £7.7m of winnings from a London casino.

    The 40-year-old American has been fighting to recover the sum since successfully playing a version of baccarat known as Punto Banco at Crockfords Club in Mayfair in 2012.

    The hearing at the supreme court considered whether dishonesty was a necessary element of the offence of cheating.

    Ivey had challenged a 2016 majority decision in the court of appeal dismissing his case against Genting Casinos UK, which owns Crockfords. Genting said a technique he used, called edge-sorting, was not a legitimate strategy, while Ivey maintained that he won fairly.

    Five justices unanimously upheld the majority decision of the court of appeal, which dismissed his case on the basis that dishonesty was not a necessary element of “cheating”.

    After the game in question, Ivey was told the money would be wired to him in Las Vegas, but it never arrived, although his stake of £1m was returned.

    Genting said the technique of edge-sorting used by Ivey, which involves identifying small differences in the pattern on the reverse of playing cards and exploiting that information to increase the chances of winning, was not a legitimate strategy.

    Ivey did not personally touch any cards, but persuaded the croupier to rotate the most valuable cards by intimating that he was superstitious.

    In the court of appeal, Lady Justice Arden said the Gambling Act 2005 provided that someone may cheat “without dishonesty or intention to deceive: depending on the circumstances it may be enough that he simply interferes with the process of the game”.

    There was no doubt, she added, that the actions of Ivey and another gambler, Cheung Yin Sun, interfered with the process by which Crockfords played the game of Punto Banco with Ivey.

    Stephen Parkinson, head of criminal litigation at Kingsley Napley, the law firm that represented Crockfords, said: “This is one of the most significant decisions in criminal law in a generation. The concept of dishonesty is central to a whole range of offences, including fraud.

    “For 35 years, juries have been told that defendants will only be guilty if the conduct complained of was dishonest by the standards of ordinary, reasonable and honest people, and also that they must have realised that ordinary, honest people would regard their behaviour as dishonest.

    “The supreme court has now said that this second limb of the test does not represent the law and that directions based upon it ought no longer to be given by the courts.”

    Now that he has lost the Crocksfords case, I'm certain he will also lose the Borgata case.

    Phil Ivey has been living off "scraps" from Billionaire bookie, bet fixer and Chinese triad member Paul Phua which is probably tens of millions of dollars a year.

    I doubt that Phil Ivey will be seen in Las Vegas any time soon.

  7. #67
    Gold ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Proof positive the Casino ALWAYS wins in the end.. Of course having financial resources to bribe the court system works wonders as well. If anybody is naïve enough to believe the Casino and the courts didn't conspire when the former was facing a huge loss due to their own stupidity I got a bridge to sell you over the mile wide river in Arizona.. In the end once again he who holds the gold makes the rules..

     
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  8. #68
    LOL

    Card maker in Phil Ivey-Borgata flap liable for $27

    http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...207213079.html


    A federal judge has dealt an Atlantic City, New Jersey, casino a bad hand in its lawsuit over asymmetrical playing cards that helped pro poker champ Phil Ivey and a companion win nearly $10 million.

    U.S. District Court Judge Noel Hillman ruled Monday that playing card manufacturer Gemaco's flawed cards were only part of the reason they were able to win so much playing baccarat.

    The Borgata claimed Ivey and Cheng Yin Sun exploited a flaw in the cards' back-side pattern, enabling them to sort and arrange good cards.

    The casino won a $10.1 million judgment against the pair and sought similar damages from Kansas City, Missouri-based Gemaco. But the judge ruled the most the casino could win from Gemaco is the value of the defective cards: less than $27.
    http://www.miraclecovers.com

    "Donk down, that’s what you say to someone after they have lost 28K straight?" - Phil Hellmuth, online

  9. #69
    Finally a judge with reason.

  10. #70

  11. #71
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Yeah, he's pretty screwed.

    Almost every decision has gone against him.

    I do wonder what tangible assets he has. Can they find assets they can immediately put claims against? Or will Ivey hide all of his money, rent everything, and claim to be broke/backed?

    I do feel bad for Ivey here because he got screwed. He was not cheating, but rather engaging in advantage play. The casino was also freerolling him. Had he lost, they wouldn't have refunded the money.

    His argument that losing the $10 million will cause "irreparable damage" to his poker career is stupid, though. That was $10 million he wouldn't have had in the first place if he hadn't played there, so is he arguing that he'd be broke now, if not for that one Borgata session? I doubt that's true.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Yeah, he's pretty screwed.

    Almost every decision has gone against him.

    I do wonder what tangible assets he has. Can they find assets they can immediately put claims against? Or will Ivey hide all of his money, rent everything, and claim to be broke/backed?

    I do feel bad for Ivey here because he got screwed. He was not cheating, but rather engaging in advantage play. The casino was also freerolling him. Had he lost, they wouldn't have refunded the money.

    His argument that losing the $10 million will cause "irreparable damage" to his poker career is stupid, though. That was $10 million he wouldn't have had in the first place if he hadn't played there, so is he arguing that he'd be broke now, if not for that one Borgata session? I doubt that's true.
    Druff do you think Ivey paid taxes on the $10 million?

  13. #73
    Gold duped_samaritan's Avatar
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    The most fucked up thing about this whole thing is that included in that $10 million judgment is the money he won from a craps session after Baccarat. You know if he went and dumped $5 million at craps table they would still sue him for entire Baccarat win.

    I wonder how all this would have played out if Ivey just said "I wasn't edge sorting" instead of admitting everything.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Yeah, he's pretty screwed.

    Almost every decision has gone against him.

    I do wonder what tangible assets he has. Can they find assets they can immediately put claims against? Or will Ivey hide all of his money, rent everything, and claim to be broke/backed?

    I do feel bad for Ivey here because he got screwed. He was not cheating, but rather engaging in advantage play. The casino was also freerolling him. Had he lost, they wouldn't have refunded the money.

    His argument that losing the $10 million will cause "irreparable damage" to his poker career is stupid, though. That was $10 million he wouldn't have had in the first place if he hadn't played there, so is he arguing that he'd be broke now, if not for that one Borgata session? I doubt that's true.

    Don't feel bad for either the casino or Ivey. They both are losers here. Ivey must have plenty of money squirreled away from Full Tilt so who cares . Scumbag on Scumbag case.

    Never cared for Ivey all that much . If he was willing to edge sort in baccarat what makes people think he didn't have some sort of card marking system for poker ?

  15. #75
    If you were Phil Ivey and you had $20 million in cash.

    Would you pay a fucking casino over $10 million or hide out in a foreign country?

    I hope MGM resorts never gets their money.



  16. #76
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowtracks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Yeah, he's pretty screwed.

    Almost every decision has gone against him.

    I do wonder what tangible assets he has. Can they find assets they can immediately put claims against? Or will Ivey hide all of his money, rent everything, and claim to be broke/backed?

    I do feel bad for Ivey here because he got screwed. He was not cheating, but rather engaging in advantage play. The casino was also freerolling him. Had he lost, they wouldn't have refunded the money.

    His argument that losing the $10 million will cause "irreparable damage" to his poker career is stupid, though. That was $10 million he wouldn't have had in the first place if he hadn't played there, so is he arguing that he'd be broke now, if not for that one Borgata session? I doubt that's true.
    Druff do you think Ivey paid taxes on the $10 million?
    Good question.

    If he could show the IRS an overall gambling "loss" for that calendar year, he wouldn't have had to pay taxes on it.

    If he did pay taxes, I don't think he could get them back. He could only use this loss against his 2018 income -- and only if he actually pays Borgata.

    This is because the winnings occurred in 2012, and the 2012 tax return cannot be amended at this point.

  17. #77
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Borgata trying to find Ivey's assets in order to grab the $10 million.

    https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...-for-Phil-Ivey

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