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Thread: Ivey Being sued by Borgata

  1. #41
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    banks can "choose to prosecute you" for an error that they made??? I find this a little hard to belive...u cannot be criminally prosecuted for being immoral, unfortunately...But I highly doubt if a bank fucks up ,and you choose not to mention said error you can be prosecuted...but im no lawyer.


    Quote Originally Posted by nunbeater View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    To play devil's advocate:

    If you go into a bank and the teller accidentally gives you $10,000 instead of $10 do you keep it?

    If you notice an ATM machine is malfunctioning and spitting out money do you get to keep it?

    Theoretically, in both cases it should be up to the bank and ATM machine owner to make sure things are working properly.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some of the charges seem applicable: "breach of contract, fraud, conversion, unjust enrichment, civil conspiracy and racketeering" It's not as if he was playing and recognized the flaw. this was premeditated, evidenced by the woman and his growing history.

    A similar edge sorting case was won by the casino btw.

    It's a very interesting case that I don't find clear-cut at all
    Your examples don't really apply since if you withdraw and keep money that the bank accidentally credits to your account you can and will get in some deep shit. Banks can choose to prosecute you if you don't pay up and you will probably get a fine on top of it.

  2. #42
    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    Here's the Full Complaint that was filed against Phil Ivey.

     

    View on scribd here: https://www.scribd.com/doc/218570101/  




  3. #43
    Diamond shortbuspoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stankmouth View Post
    banks can "choose to prosecute you" for an error that they made??? I find this a little hard to belive...u cannot be criminally prosecuted for being immoral, unfortunately...But I highly doubt if a bank fucks up ,and you choose not to mention said error you can be prosecuted...but im no lawyer.
    Yes they can. For example, let's say you go to the atm to withdraw $20 and you know there should be $30 in the account but the machine says that you balance is $30,000 so you go into the bank and empty the account. You are guilty of felony Theft(or larceny I can't remember). This has been well established in the U.S. and it common practice for the banks to not press charges if the funds are returned in a timely manner.

    For the record, I disagree with it but I don't make the laws.

  4. #44
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    I'm not clear here. Were the cards supplied by the Casino or did Mr Ivey bring the cards in and say "Hey let's use these..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by alleyrivo View Post
    I'm not clear here. Were the cards supplied by the Casino or did Mr Ivey bring the cards in and say "Hey let's use these..."
    I realize you're new here but read the fucking thread. Obviously "Mr Ivey" did not bring in the cards.
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    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

  6. #46
    Diamond shortbuspoker's Avatar
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    I'm starting to think that Phil hired on of Dan Bilzerian's lawyers.

    http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowla...-fraud-claims/

    POINT I: The First Ten Counts of [Borgata's] Amended Complaint Alleging Statutory Causes of Action are Barred by New Jersey Law.

    “Without citing any legal authority, [Borgat] argues that the myriad of cases rejecting private lawsuits premised upon alleged violations of the Casino Control Act are inapplicable to suits brought by a casino. The attempt to salvage its Complaint rests upon the erroneous conclusion that since the Act regulates only [word underlined] licensed casinos, such licensees are the exception…. The precise contrary is true… For Plaintiff to prevail, the Court would have to find that the New Jersey Legislature intended, yet simply forgot to include any provision allowing a private damage remedy to gaming losers.”

    “If, as Plaintiff alleges, Defendants Ivey and Sun committed multiple acts of swindling, fraud and cheating, Plaintiff was duty bound to let the ][Division of Gaming Enforcement] decide whether the Act was violated, and if so, to initiate and prosecute criminal charges on Plaintiff’s behalf… It was Plaintiff who decided not to exhaust or even attempt administrative remedies and proceeded instead by filing this frivolous lawsuit.”

    POINT II: The Six Month Statute of Limitation for a Proper Claim of Restitution under NJSA 2A: 40-5 Has Long Expired.

    Ivey’s attorneys say Borgata “is not shy about contradicting itself or misrepresenting its own pleadings” to claim the statute doesn’t apply, citing language that says the games in question were or were not “illegal.”

    Assertions by Borgata about whether the games did or did not violate the Casino Control Act are described here as “schizophrenic.”

    “Plaintiff cannot have it both ways: either the game was illegal and the six-month statute of limitations has expired, of the game was lawful and Defendants won.”
    POINT III: Illegal Conduct Occurred During These Mini-Baccarat Games.

    It’s noted that Borgata selected, bought and dealt the cards in question as well as the automatic shuffler, and that the casino could have declined Ivey’s request to orient the cards in a certain way.

    Finally, there’s a nod to Ivey’s more famous card game of choice.

    “[T]he suggestion that Defendants were under some sort of legal compulsion to ‘reveal their hand’ to Plaintiff while gambling, borderlines on ridiculous. That is akin to saying that one poker player bluffing another commits an illegal act.”

    Then comes the haymaker:

    “The essential mission of Borgata’s casino operation is to encourage patrons to lose money by orchestrating a plethora of deceptive practices such as loud noises and flashing lights on slot machines, hiding the clocks, making exit signs almost impossible to find, having cocktail waitresses wear revealing clothing, and comping copious amounts of alcohol to ‘loosen up’ their patrons.”

    And the kicker – the final line:

    “Plaintiff’s only valid complaint is that it lost.”
    - See more at: http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowla....N8WOZYeJ.dpuf

  7. #47
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    Another edge-sorting lawsuit.

    Cheung Yin Sun, Ivey's companion at Borg and Crockfords, has filed suit against Foxwoods in connection with a similar edge-sorting incident in late 2011.

    http://www.flushdraw.net/?p=5082

  8. #48
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    Another edge-sorting lawsuit.

    Cheung Yin Sun, Ivey's companion at Borg and Crockfords, has filed suit against Foxwoods in connection with a similar edge-sorting incident in late 2011.

    http://www.flushdraw.net/?p=5082
    Interesting.

    How valid do you believe the "freeroll" claim is?

    For those who didn't read the Flushdraw article, Sun is alleging that casinos knew exactly what she was doing, but let her do it, planning to deny any winnings but keep any losses.

    The lawsuit also claims that a state trooper conspired with Foxwoods to hold Sun and her two companions in the past (not involving Ivey), trying to falsify charges to hold them while they could be further investigated.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    Another edge-sorting lawsuit.

    Cheung Yin Sun, Ivey's companion at Borg and Crockfords, has filed suit against Foxwoods in connection with a similar edge-sorting incident in late 2011.

    http://www.flushdraw.net/?p=5082
    Interesting.

    How valid do you believe the "freeroll" claim is?

    For those who didn't read the Flushdraw article, Sun is alleging that casinos knew exactly what she was doing, but let her do it, planning to deny any winnings but keep any losses.

    The lawsuit also claims that a state trooper conspired with Foxwoods to hold Sun and her two companions in the past (not involving Ivey), trying to falsify charges to hold them while they could be further investigated.
    Very valid, and it predates all the Ivey stuff, hence its impact there. It will be interesting to see how the casino responds, though that's going to be difficult. Since the plaintiffs have included First Amendment violations in an effort to drag the tribe into federal court, the judge has sealed the case's records. I'm still trying to decipher if someone requested it, and then write it up over at FD.

  10. #50
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    The Crockfords casino edge sorting lawsuit is expected to have a result this week.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29476942

    Hopefully they...


  11. #51
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    Judgement against Phil Ivey by Genting Casinos.

    Case against Phil Ivey by Borgata not yet settled.

     

    View on scribd here: https://www.scribd.com/doc/245625168/  


  12. #52
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    Bogata allegedly destroys decks of cards in Phil Ivey edge sorting case; Ivey countersues

    shady as fuck

    "Plaintiff Borgata had a duty of care at all times relevant hereto due and owing to the defendants, to maintain, sequester and preserve the precise playing cards utilized by the plaintiff in each of the casino games patronized by the defendants from April through July of 2012," the countersuit states. "Plaintiff Borgata knew that those playing cards were critically material to Ivey and Sun's defense, and knew further that destruction of those playing cards would render the defendants irrevocably prejudice in defending against plaintiff's claims and in securing judgment against the plaintiff."
    http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/...carat-winnings

     
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      MumblesBadly: Legal eagle eye rep

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    To play devil's advocate:

    If you go into a bank and the teller accidentally gives you $10,000 instead of $10 do you keep it?

    If you notice an ATM machine is malfunctioning and spitting out money do you get to keep it?

    Theoretically, in both cases it should be up to the bank and ATM machine owner to make sure things are working properly.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some of the charges seem applicable: "breach of contract, fraud, conversion, unjust enrichment, civil conspiracy and racketeering" It's not as if he was playing and recognized the flaw. this was premeditated, evidenced by the woman and his growing history.

    A similar edge sorting case was won by the casino btw.

    It's a very interesting case that I don't find clear-cut at all
    Whether an activity is premeditated or spur-off-the-moment only affects the *severity* of the underlying crime, not whether the activity is criminal. Case in point is premeditated murder (1st degree) versus a crime-of-passion murder (2nd degree). Similarly, if I spent months studying and planning to count cards at a casino versus picking it up on the fly while playing wouldn't make counting cards illegal in the first case but legal in the second if there is no law against counting cards.
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    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    To play devil's advocate:

    If you go into a bank and the teller accidentally gives you $10,000 instead of $10 do you keep it?

    If you notice an ATM machine is malfunctioning and spitting out money do you get to keep it?

    Theoretically, in both cases it should be up to the bank and ATM machine owner to make sure things are working properly.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some of the charges seem applicable: "breach of contract, fraud, conversion, unjust enrichment, civil conspiracy and racketeering" It's not as if he was playing and recognized the flaw. this was premeditated, evidenced by the woman and his growing history.

    A similar edge sorting case was won by the casino btw.

    It's a very interesting case that I don't find clear-cut at all
    These seem like terms that are made to inflate the severity of what Ivey did. Why couldn't they simply claim that the contract was null-and-void because the two parties did not have a "meeting of the minds" about the game they were playing? Meaning, the casino thought it was playing as the "house" in punto banco, while in fact they were playing the "house" in "Edge-sorting punto banco", which has very different theoretical odds than the game they *thought* they were playing. On that basis, the casino would be in the right to have denied Ivey his winnings.

    Of course, this wouldn't have the emotional appeal of calling Ivey a "cheater", which then allows all of the elements of inflating the claims against him to make him out to be a fraudster. Why do I say this? Because people making business deals can lie about the intent of why they want to enter into a contract. But because Ivey got them to voluntarily change how they administered the game, which resulted in the casino offering a *different* theoretical game of chance than it *thought* it was offering, it had no obligation to honor paying Ivey his "winnings".
    Last edited by MumblesBadly; 07-23-2015 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Change emphasis
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    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  15. #55
    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    Judge: Poker pro Ivey, pal broke gambling rules in $10 million win
    http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/oct...paign=mostRead

    By shifting the odds in their favor, they violated the New Jersey Casino Control Act, the judge ruled. He threw out allegations by the Borgata that the pair had committed fraud, and the casino now has 20 days to outline the damages it says it suffered.

    "Borgata and Ivey had the same goal when they entered into their arrangement: to profit at the other's expense," the judge wrote. "Trust is a misplaced sentiment in this context."
    So what happens if Ivey doesn't pay back the $10 million?
    I seriously doubt he would pay them back that kind of money.
    It might be best if he never returns to Las Vegas, just stay in Macau, the Philippines and Mexico.

    Will MGM resorts which owns the Borgata ban him from every resort they own and rename "Ivey's Room" to "Hellmuth's Room"?





    Phil Ivey is currently endorsing Daily Fantasy Sports platform "Rosters" (iTeam Network) which is owned by Daniel Negreanu's agent Brian Balsbaugh.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TheXFactor View Post
    Will MGM resorts which owns the Borgata ban him from every resort they own and rename "Ivey's Room" to "Hellmuth's Room"?
    Or "JRB's Room" for the lulz
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheXFactor View Post
    Judge: Poker pro Ivey, pal broke gambling rules in $10 million win
    http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/oct...paign=mostRead

    By shifting the odds in their favor, they violated the New Jersey Casino Control Act, the judge ruled. He threw out allegations by the Borgata that the pair had committed fraud, and the casino now has 20 days to outline the damages it says it suffered.

    "Borgata and Ivey had the same goal when they entered into their arrangement: to profit at the other's expense," the judge wrote. "Trust is a misplaced sentiment in this context."
    So what happens if Ivey doesn't pay back the $10 million?
    I seriously doubt he would pay them back that kind of money.

    It might be best if he never returns to Las Vegas, just stay in Macau, the Philippines and Mexico.

    Will MGM resorts which owns the Borgata ban him from every resort they own and rename "Ivey's Room" to "Hellmuth's Room"?





    Phil Ivey is currently endorsing Daily Fantasy Sports platform "Rosters" (iTeam Network) which is owned by Daniel Negreanu's agent Brian Balsbaugh.




    Lets not forget that Ivey is a total degen , so I wouldnt be surprised at all if he doesnt even have that sort of money to pay back. Since there is no fraud involved, maybe he pulls a Lindgren and does a bankruptcy

    btw, I think the ruling is bullshit and Ivey did nothing wrong.

     
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    Last edited by cmoney; 10-22-2016 at 07:21 AM.
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    King of Lost Wages LarryLaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoney View Post


    Lets not forget that Ivey is a total degen , so I wouldnt be surprised at all if he doesnt even have that sort of money to pay back. Since there is no fraud involved, maybe he pulls a Lindgren and does a bankruptcy

    btw, I think the ruling is bullshit and Ivey did nothing wrong.
    I also think the ruling is rather bullshit. After all, the judge even admitted that the point of the ENTIRE fiasco to begin with was to take each other's money.

    10m is worth it for me to never step foot in NJ, LV, or any other property that is owned by MGM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryLaffer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cmoney View Post


    Lets not forget that Ivey is a total degen , so I wouldnt be surprised at all if he doesnt even have that sort of money to pay back. Since there is no fraud involved, maybe he pulls a Lindgren and does a bankruptcy

    btw, I think the ruling is bullshit and Ivey did nothing wrong.
    I also think the ruling is rather bullshit. After all, the judge even admitted that the point of the ENTIRE fiasco to begin with was to take each other's money.

    10m is worth it for me to never step foot in NJ, LV, or any other property that is owned by MGM.
    So the question is how much did the Judge get slipped in a payoff by MGM to rule in their favor?? Technically if Ivey wants he can appeal the decision I would think so if he's smart he pushes this up the food chain although no guarantee again that MGMs doesn't bribe the judges as well (If you don't think MGM didn't grease the skids for their side youre kidding yourselves)

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