Mike, I thought you were into book learning and scientific knowledge and shit.Originally Posted by 408Mike
Didn't you learn about Isaac Newton and physics and gravity at all?
Your ignorance about gravity is very disturbing.
Mike, I thought you were into book learning and scientific knowledge and shit.
Didn't you learn about Isaac Newton and physics and gravity at all?
Your ignorance about gravity is very disturbing.
Mike, I am going to pray that this is really just some sort of level.
Here you go Mike, the first ever visual evidence that gravity exists.
Feel free to share with your congregation of repressed, closeted homosexuals.
Here you go Mike, the first ever visual evidence that gravity exists.
Feel free to share with your congregation of repressed, closeted homosexuals.
Speaking of praying, I pray you don't have kids you fucking downsie.
I have had Issues with credit cards in Europe
Fuckin' gravity. How does it work?!
EDIT: LOL, I forgot all about the line in this song about how music is "magic" because it can't be seen.
Last edited by SrslySirius; 04-22-2012 at 06:59 PM.
thanks mike i got a good laugh out of you claiming to be scientifically minded but not knowing that gravity can be measured
At 1:50 you will clearly see Shaggy's viewpoint on gravity
Mike, here is a step-by-step guide on what to do before posting something ridiculous next time
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Can+gravity+be+measured
You do realize that nearly all of those technologies had a strong role in the space program and were largely developed as a result. In fact nearly all recent technological advances have roots in both the space program and military research. So actually your example makes total sense to anyone who has watched the evolution of technology.
As for going back to the moon... I suppose you can always go with Gingrich...
Who on earth would trust Mike as a nurse lol. Hopefully he overdoses on drugs before he finishes community college.
I have had Issues with credit cards in Europe
Ouch
+1 for any vid featuring awesome Mike Awesome. ICP, jesus. These two fuckers still wrestle, and that's a tough way to make an easy living.
You do realize that nearly all of those technologies had a strong role in the space program and were largely developed as a result. In fact nearly all recent technological advances have roots in both the space program and military research. So actually your example makes total sense to anyone who has watched the evolution of technology.
As for going back to the moon... I suppose you can always go with Gingrich...
Who's to say we never went back?
Real cute to watch you vultures circle. This is why unrepentant sinners go to hell- if not for that process, we'd just have earth 2.0 after we die.
And thus, here on pfa, we have donkdown 2.0
Nice to see you guys take some bad wording and run it for eeeeeevery millimeter you can.
Drop an object and measure it's acceleration and you can measure how much gravity is at play. Obviously, thus you have "proof" though you cannot see gravity, touch it weigh it etc. Granted, it's not taken on faith nearly to the degree say luck or faith in God for example, and in truth probably not an equitable example.
Anyway if a church congregation prays in massive amounts and produces multiple miracles for the same few people, impossible miracles, I believe I am correct in drawing a conclusion that prayer had a measurable effect on the outcome. SCIENCE CERTAINLY REFUSES TO GIVE ONE, Doyles doctors said what happened is impossible, so how much more impossible are the FOUR miracles altogether? I didn't say a person prayed and the microwave worked one cold winter night and thus the kids had dinner that night, I said FOUR VERY REAL VERIFIED MIRACLES HAPPENED. That is significant.
When some idiot woman wins the jackpot on the same machine two-three times in a row, and says the machine is lucky for her, how quick are most of you to say "what that's bullshit! luck isn't real" but then how do you explain mathematically impossible situations? Like millions and millions to one hitting several times for the same lady? If it's not luck, what the fuck is it? Most gamblers are more open minded than you all though, and they can embrace a thing like luck, especially because money is involved. But it's no weirder to believe in a higher power when praying for a sick man his wife and their daughter produces 4 FOUR count them FOUR actual miracles in a short (relatively) period of time.
The woman winning the slot jackpot is PROBABLY lucky. You might say Doyle was just lucky as well, but offering to believe something like luck with no proof begs the question why then can't you believe in God and prayer with no proof? Hmm. If he might be lucky, equally likely the prayer helped correct? Or are you people willing to stand and say luck and faith are not equal and that one is much easier to believe in than the other?
I obviously used a bad analogy, and shame on your jerks for pouncing on me knowing damn well I know what the hell gravity is. No one wants to really talk about the issue at hand, why I made the thread in the first place, you bloodthirsty vultures just want scraps off the scraps of the vulture next to you.
Within a year the 5 core posters left standing will probably just sit around making dupes of me and pretend my dupe is tilting and bump old threads pretending they don't miss the good ol days.
Shameful is what you all are. And ignorant sadly, shamefully ignorant.
link to woman ever hitting 2+ million-1 jackpot 3 times in a row?
Edit: I also don't want to even get in to explaining variance and probability here either... Pray if you want to pray Mike, but it is nothing more than a placebo effect.
Oh and instead of using bullshit anecdotle evidence and faulty logic maybe we should actually look at an aggregate measure of objective evidence....
Prayer and health: review, meta-analysis, and research agenda.
Masters KS, Spielmans GI.
Source
Department of Psychology, Syracuse University, 430 Huntington Hall, Syracuse, NY 13244-2340, USA. kemaster@syr.edu
Erratum in
J Behav Med. 2007 Oct;30(5):447.
Abstract
This article reviews the empirical research on prayer and health and offers a research agenda to guide future studies. Though many people practice prayer and believe it affects their health, scientific evidence is limited. In keeping with a general increase in interest in spirituality and complementary and alternative treatments, prayer has garnered attention among a growing number of behavioral scientists. The effects of distant intercessory prayer are examined by meta-analysis and it is concluded that no discernable effects can be found. The literature regarding frequency of prayer, content of prayer, and prayer as a coping strategy is subsequently reviewed. Suggestions for future research include the conduct of experimental studies based on conceptual models that include precise operationally defined constructs, longitudinal investigations with proper measure of control variables, and increased use of ecological momentary assessment techniques.
While I agree with you that in most cases, religious sorts have less education / lower IQ, there are exceptions, and in fact, people with multiple degrees and high IQ who have come to believe in a higher power. The problem with making assertions about god or god's supposed interventions into the human experience is that there is simply no way to prove them. Nor should there be. Spiritual communion with god is based in faith, and the essence of faith is placing one's reliance in that which cannot be proven. That is what makes it faith - if it was fact, everyone would believe.
It is absolutely a waste of time to preach to people on an Internet forum about the power of prayer... unless you happen to catch someone reading who is searching. Then perhaps, you have accomplished something. But doubtless, that person's search would have led them to the answers they were seeking anyway... so Mike, I ask you, is is worth the derision and abuse?
I myself have many questions, both about the origins of life, and about the way things work today. If there is a higher power, one must ask why there is irrational sufferring, and why some are born into horrendous circumstances including biological disfigurement, abuse, and extreme poverty, while others are handed a red carpet existence. Surely a god who loved all of his creation would not sit idly by allowing such injustice.
However, the answer to the question "why do bad things happen to good people" may be simpler than we imagine.
Picture if you will, a higher power whose first and primary directive is Love. If this being chooses to make a creation whose core purpose is to Love their creator, he cannot manufacture them in such a way that they are robotic, or BOUND to love him. This is because of the nature of love itself. Love is chosen, not forced. If it is not chosen by free will, it is not love. Consider then, the choices for this creator entity. He must make the creation with free will, or they will never truly love. In giving them free will, he must also allow them to destroy and corrupt everything they touch. For if he changes/controls any aspect of their ability to choose, he eradicates the pureness of their ability to love.
This is the human condition, and with it, all the flaws. No it doesn't explain natural disasters, tsunamis, and earthquakes. It does not explain why children are born with no arms or legs. I am not brilliant enough to offer you an explanation for that, and I tend to think it can only be explained by accepting the cold, irrational, chaotic nature of the universe. But it you were bent on finding a higher power and making a case for it, it does explain why a loving god would allow us to run amok, destroy the environment, and treat one another like shit. It also explains why he would perhaps not make it completely irrefutable that he is real. If there was absolutely NO doubt, you'd follow him out of fear/subservience/law rather than love.
I do not claim to have any of the answers. I am just considering all the possiilities, even the ones that science is not mature enough yet to explain.
This is probably what Mike thought he was writing, what he actually wrote was:While I agree with you that in most cases, religious sorts have less education / lower IQ, there are exceptions, and in fact, people with multiple degrees and high IQ who have come to believe in a higher power. The problem with making assertions about god or god's supposed interventions into the human experience is that there is simply no way to prove them. Nor should there be. Spiritual communion with god is based in faith, and the essence of faith is placing one's reliance in that which cannot be proven. That is what makes it faith - if it was fact, everyone would believe.
It is absolutely a waste of time to preach to people on an Internet forum about the power of prayer... unless you happen to catch someone reading who is searching. Then perhaps, you have accomplished something. But doubtless, that person's search would have led them to the answers they were seeking anyway... so Mike, I ask you, is is worth the derision and abuse?
I myself have many questions, both about the origins of life, and about the way things work today. If there is a higher power, one must ask why there is irrational sufferring, and why some are born into horrendous circumstances including biological disfigurement, abuse, and extreme poverty, while others are handed a red carpet existence. Surely a god who loved all of his creation would not sit idly by allowing such injustice.
However, the answer to the question "why do bad things happen to good people" may be simpler than we imagine.
Picture if you will, a higher power whose first and primary directive is Love. If this being chooses to make a creation whose core purpose is to Love their creator, he cannot manufacture them in such a way that they are robotic, or BOUND to love him. This is because of the nature of love itself. Love is chosen, not forced. If it is not chosen by free will, it is not love. Consider then, the choices for this creator entity. He must make the creation with free will, or they will never truly love. In giving them free will, he must also allow them to destroy and corrupt everything they touch. For if he changes/controls any aspect of their ability to choose, he eradicates the pureness of their ability to love.
This is the human condition, and with it, all the flaws. No it doesn't explain natural disasters, tsunamis, and earthquakes. It does not explain why children are born with no arms or legs. I am not brilliant enough to offer you an explanation for that, and I tend to think it can only be explained by accepting the cold, irrational, chaotic nature of the universe. But it you were bent on finding a higher power and making a case for it, it does explain why a loving god would allow us to run amok, destroy the environment, and treat one another like shit. It also explains why he would perhaps not make it completely irrefutable that he is real. If there was absolutely NO doubt, you'd follow him out of fear/subservience/law rather than love.
I do not claim to have any of the answers. I am just considering all the possiilities, even the ones that science is not mature enough yet to explain.
And FINALLY one of you from the other side finally has the brains and wherewithal to say something relevant. I can work with this.
Ok it's not great, but it's something. I gotta avoid the epic posts here...
So I make a claim to a science minded person that prayer exists. How would I ever prove such a thing?
Well you might reply through the scientific method of course. And just as you would have predicted, prayer provided no measurable benefit.
Does this PROVE prayer never works? Hardy. Then again, it's nearly impossible (most of the time) to ever prove prayer did anything.
But what would Doyle say? If you had a time machine and could go back to the point before his surgery and take all the prayer away, would he be ok with that? Certainly not, because he HAS FAITH that prayer did in fact help him.
What I'm getting at is an underlying truth- that the value placed on something like faith and prayer is dependent on it's intrinsic value to the person in question. In Doyle's case, it would be hard to point at any one thing and say "see look here, yes that is prayer at work choking out this group of cancer cells" but yet he would fight to the death to keep the prayers he received. Seems foolish no?
That is the nature of faith. It's hard to comprehend or understand but then again, the value isnt for you to decide, its for the person being prayed over, as the value is really theirs.
And thus yes I would like for anyone with faith to pray for my buddy Dan, and me if so inclined, and I would appreciate it and so would he. Doesn't matter if you don't, but certainly heckling me for asking is a bit childish no?
Also of significance to the article is this premise of "if prayer is tested in a controlled setting and fails to produce, that means it's not real correct?" I want to agree with that, in fact my whole life I did, but unfortunately I have witnessed three times now one in my life twice in my friends that prayer can lead directly to miracles.
Just not when I do it.
And not when in a lab setting.
Scuter would say correctly (Luke 14:33) "So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple."
Forsake all that you have meaning giving your heart and soul to God. The material angle can be used, as in give away all your possesions, but really you cannot be a true Disciple of God (a Christian) without first turning over ALL THAT YOU HAVE.
I apparently can not do this, I can't turn away from sin. Give up porn alcohol staring at girls butts and such, the Bible says "flesh LOVES SIN" for we are born into it, and i no different than anyone.
And thus my praying, though I mean well, doesn't seem to do much, and I can feel the hesitation within me, like I KNOW I am not where I should be, and thus my praying is useless.
My buddy on the other hand, let's just call him a modern day saint. He really is. Not a perfect Christian, but 10x no 100x the Christian I am. Praying is easy for him, he enjoys it, and it produces. You know all those Biblical stories about not needing to worry about food water or shelter because God will provide? And then He does and you shake your head? My buddy literally would be one of those blessed few getting food and water rained on them, finding whatever they need etc.
Case in point- he came back from overseas (iraq) and needed a car, but had no money. He prayed for God to give him a car, and the next day he was essentially offered a car by a guy who owned a lot and had a very soft heart for Marines. (I still have this car to this day, 1991 sunbird. Although its almost never ran right, despite working flawlessly for a year before my friend gave it to me) (I mean literally a year of perfect service I get the keys imeed the head gasket blows! And since then, I've replaced over a dozen expensive parts, and RIGHT NOW that car is sitting in my driveway and won't run)
He was broke about two years ago and prayed for God to provide some toys for his kids. This story breaks down much longer than I want to write, essentially his son likes art and his daughter wanted a dartboard, the place my buddy was staying he wasn't paying rent (the lady loves marines and he's been there 2.5 years without rent- I mean...)so a dartboard is out of the question (holes in walls, not happening) so he goes to this gift exchange thing were you essentially can pull out at random from a box anonymously given gifts, he pulls out an oil painting set for kids and a MAGNET DART BOARD.
MAGNETIC DART BOARD
Jasep your'e so smart, what are the odds of this happening? How many possible gifts might people buy, thus making it so unlikely for there to be one or the other even in the box, let alone both, and for him to pull both? Astronomical.
And let's move to my laptop finally. when my buddy got back this last tour in february, my mac was shot. Only half the screen worked (dropped it) and my trackpad was shattered (tried cleaning around the sides with some kind of thin metal and it cracked, then just cracked more and more). I went to apple THREE TIMES begging for them to fix it and they quoted me $600 for the screen and about $250 for the trackpad each time.
Buddy prayed for me, told me that he had, and a few days later I went to apple to get lion put back on and the genius rep was SUPER nice. Comes back says "I have lion up for you, hey I noticed your trackpad is a little messed up, you want me to take care of that for you?" Um ok....he comes back out 30 min later and its fixed and says its only $50 because the labor was still under warranty, I just paid for the part. STUNNED. Ok, so then he says "oh and also I noticed your screen is a little broken (it was 70% gone by then) and your labor is covered by warranty, you'd pay $250" I was ecstatic!!! I come back to get my machine 2 days later, and she's good as new. And then the kicker-
a genius rep walks up to collect payment, and says "Oh, apple says you dn't owe them anything, have a nice day".
I have all receipts to back this up, I am not lying.
In the history of apple have any of you heard of shit like this? Cuz I sure haven't.
Maybe any one of these things could be chance, but not all of them. Not possible. If you the reader could see this all randomly happening, then you believe in the occurance of something SO UNLIKELY that it's almost impossible.
Not unlike the possibility of God existing though no? You'd say that is almost impossible as well.
Blaise Pascal "In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't."
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