Neverheeb update 4/22/12

[lewfather]

Anyone that stakes heeb is sick in the head, for a wide array of reasons. Heeb needs to get a college stake more than anything.

[408Mike]

I appreciate the input and concerns. Real fast, I would like to point out that yes him gambling is bad, in fact I damn near walked away from our friendship this last time we hung out because he was getting pretty damn bad wanting to play. At one point he was literally walking to pawn his damn phone, and i would not let him nor stake him.

It wasn't pretty. So do I want him to succeed? Yes i do.

However he has been finding a way to play and what not without my help, and even after telling his dad (and he was pissed to the point I swore I will not do it again, and I keep my word) he still is doing his own thing.

So the situation played out like so- he may have something to play with, and after talking to him on the phone I realized he's just not going to not play. period. I gave it some thought and decided the best I can do as a friend is to be encouraging and try to give him the best chance I can.

To that end, I decided if I add some of my own money to the roll he has, he'll have 6-7 good buy-ins at the local card spot and with no car, no job, no girlfriend, no dealer NOTHING really working against or distracting him, he'd be in a good spot to be successful for once and hopefully run with that.

I don't know what else you all would have me do. It's a tricky spot and I am the first person to say how horrible my decision making skills are, hence the underhanded plea for help. I mean no logical human thought I was getting money out of this, so the real reason comes to the surface.

BCR makes a great point, about an addict and disposable income, and fck me once again I say, what the heck am I supposed to do or can I do? I'm not sure of anything.

[408Mike]

I'm genuinely glad that Heeb is doing well, but there is no win in having a newly sober person anywhere near gambling of any sort. If they win, great, an addict has disposable income, that always goes well. Losing even a few hundred, if it's a lot to you personally, is emotional to the addict and there is no win there. While Heeb's run was epic back in the day, it was entirely common. The only uncommon thing about it was that he was so young, and didn't have the sense to withdrawal anything of significance, given how much value $50 or 60k can be to such a young kid. As someone who never trusted the site's with a significant amount of my money even pre-UIGEA, routinely depositing $1k and running into $25k was a normal thing back then. I'm not saying I'd do it always, I failed more often than succeeded, but not 25 times before I'd make a run. I simply would fire out another $1k, because I was older and had the money, but I never loved the idea of making big deposits even when everyone thought the sites were gold standard. I guarantee Druff has ran $2k into $50-75k more times than he can count. Heeb's was simply made public, but that run was there to be had back then. Now, really proficient players who have been studying the game while Heeb has been working on Heeb are struggling to scratch out a small hourly, so it's unlikely he's successful, and even if he is, it's likely the worst thing that could happen to him.

Just help him out to find a job, and a plan to go forward with his life.

I gave him a copy of my resume to help out (it was professionally written) but the job thing is less than likely. Where he's staying is dead job wise. Worse than dead.

Plus he's at the sle another 5 months, and has no car or girl or hobby really. So my biggest worry is that all the free time sitting around will eat him up. That's the biggest reason he's relapsed in the past. Kids got nothing! If you have nothing to lose, why fight to win?

I want to do the best I can, so input counts. Thank you.

[hutmaster]

IMO, if Heeb isn't working and has lots of free time on his hands then he should do some volunteer work. Go donate some time at a soup kitchen and see how bad some really have it. Helping others will give him a good sense of worth.

[Jasep]

I decided if I add some of my own money to the roll he has, he'll have 6-7 good buy-ins at the local card spot

What the fuck game are they playing at the local card room that your 200 is going to get heeb to 6 or 7 buy ins? .25/.50?

I am guessing it is 1/2 NLHE as that is the norm at private card clubs, 200 is 2/3 of 1 buy in for that game... so what does giving him the money really do for him other than enable him just a little bit more Mike?

I am guessing Heeb probably has around 300 and is telling you that buying in with 100 is fine and everyone is a fish etc.... anyone who knows the game knows that if you want to short buy a NLHE game then you are doomed from jump street... if he has 300 and you give him 200 than he has 1 2/3 buy ins, even if he has 400 then with your 200 he only has 2 buy ins... in any case, this is a bankroll for a single shot in a single game, not making a go of turning your life around....

The only way that your 200 added with whatever Heeb has gives him 6-7 healthy buy-ins for a game is if they are playing with coffee cans full of quarters.

Even if it is some kind of funky 1/2 with a 100 cap, 7 buy in downswings are nothing, and the kid is starting out being set up for failure and you are aiding him in it and going busto in poker may lead to jumping back on the pipe... Be a real friend Mike and spend that 200 on getting the kid a suit so he can go on job interview.

[BetCheckBet]

I'm genuinely glad that Heeb is doing well, but there is no win in having a newly sober person anywhere near gambling of any sort. If they win, great, an addict has disposable income, that always goes well. Losing even a few hundred, if it's a lot to you personally, is emotional to the addict and there is no win there. While Heeb's run was epic back in the day, it was entirely common. The only uncommon thing about it was that he was so young, and didn't have the sense to withdrawal anything of significance, given how much value $50 or 60k can be to such a young kid. As someone who never trusted the site's with a significant amount of my money even pre-UIGEA, routinely depositing $1k and running into $25k was a normal thing back then. I'm not saying I'd do it always, I failed more often than succeeded, but not 25 times before I'd make a run. I simply would fire out another $1k, because I was older and had the money, but I never loved the idea of making big deposits even when everyone thought the sites were gold standard. I guarantee Druff has ran $2k into $50-75k more times than he can count. Heeb's was simply made public, but that run was there to be had back then. Now, really proficient players who have been studying the game while Heeb has been working on Heeb are struggling to scratch out a small hourly, so it's unlikely he's successful, and even if he is, it's likely the worst thing that could happen to him.

Just help him out to find a job, and a plan to go forward with his life.

No need to say anything more here.

Also 408 mike your logic is absolutely horrible here even if you do have the best intentions.

[Avon Barksdale]

Tell Heeb to go to Minot, ND and work in the oil fields.

He can make a 100K a year easy, and he's built for physical work like that.

There is a serious boom out there. Takes 30 - 45 minutes just to get McDonalds there, and they've literally imported Asian women to work there.

[BetCheckBet]

Tell Heeb to go to Minot, ND and work in the oil fields.

He can make a 100K a year easy, and he's built for physical work like that.

There is a serious boom out there. Takes 30 - 45 minutes just to get McDonalds there, and they've literally imported Asian women to work there.

This is great advice. Fact of the matter there are still lots of great jobs out there even for unskilled workers if you are willing to be flexible. Had a friend who was a pretty severe schizophrenic but he ended up doing extremely well tree planting and making tons of money at it (he felt really relaxed out int he bush and was able to keep very focused).

[Vwls]

If anyone cares- talked to our fallen brother today and I am happy to report THE KIDS DOING GREAT!

I've known him since 2007 and honestly, in 5 years, not once has he sounded this solid. Emotions in check, doesn't sound compulsive, head is clear etc.

There is a lot you can tell about a person by the sound of their voice. HARD collections for two years have a way to honing ones skillset in reading a person over the phone. It would be presumptuous to proclaim the man sober or cured, in light of his history, but he is in the best spot mentally/emotionally/physically I think he's ever been.

Send him a prayer if you will. Good wishes/vibes are equally welcome. This kid has to make it, he WILL make it, and any and all support appreciated.

FWIW he has a shaky but viable bankroll right now. I am very strongly considering giving him $200 or so to add to it and if anyone wants to get in on the action let me know. He's good, he's damn good, but for years now he ALWAYS sets himself up to fail by not playing with a roll, not game selecting and fending off the urge to jump out a window and run toward the nearest crack dealers house.

To be blunt- this could well be his time. He's got good action at a local cardroom with a bunch of fish not two miles from his sle, The stars couldn't line up more perfectly IMO.

GL NEVERHEEB

Having a bit of experience with addiction and the addictive personaity, I'd venture to say that gambling is one of the things that leads Heeb into his downslope behaviors. If you truly want to support his sobriety, I'd venture clear of any poker contributions. I love Heeb and wish the best for him - I'm just a student of human nature and I do not think one can separate the addictions in any incisive way.

[408Mike]

Aaaaaand Heeb has a promising job interview coming up! Kids on fire.

[408Mike]

I'm genuinely glad that Heeb is doing well, but there is no win in having a newly sober person anywhere near gambling of any sort. If they win, great, an addict has disposable income, that always goes well. Losing even a few hundred, if it's a lot to you personally, is emotional to the addict and there is no win there. While Heeb's run was epic back in the day, it was entirely common. The only uncommon thing about it was that he was so young, and didn't have the sense to withdrawal anything of significance, given how much value $50 or 60k can be to such a young kid. As someone who never trusted the site's with a significant amount of my money even pre-UIGEA, routinely depositing $1k and running into $25k was a normal thing back then. I'm not saying I'd do it always, I failed more often than succeeded, but not 25 times before I'd make a run. I simply would fire out another $1k, because I was older and had the money, but I never loved the idea of making big deposits even when everyone thought the sites were gold standard. I guarantee Druff has ran $2k into $50-75k more times than he can count. Heeb's was simply made public, but that run was there to be had back then. Now, really proficient players who have been studying the game while Heeb has been working on Heeb are struggling to scratch out a small hourly, so it's unlikely he's successful, and even if he is, it's likely the worst thing that could happen to him.

Just help him out to find a job, and a plan to go forward with his life.

No need to say anything more here.

Also 408 mike your logic is absolutely horrible here even if you do have the best intentions.

It might be, but then again I am human.

On the other hand, it should count I asked for advice before making a decision no?

[408Mike]

Tell Heeb to go to Minot, ND and work in the oil fields.

He can make a 100K a year easy, and he's built for physical work like that.

There is a serious boom out there. Takes 30 - 45 minutes just to get McDonalds there, and they've literally imported Asian women to work there.

Bro if you have connections he and I both could be en route within a week. Speak on this.

[408Mike]

If anyone cares- talked to our fallen brother today and I am happy to report THE KIDS DOING GREAT!

I've known him since 2007 and honestly, in 5 years, not once has he sounded this solid. Emotions in check, doesn't sound compulsive, head is clear etc.

There is a lot you can tell about a person by the sound of their voice. HARD collections for two years have a way to honing ones skillset in reading a person over the phone. It would be presumptuous to proclaim the man sober or cured, in light of his history, but he is in the best spot mentally/emotionally/physically I think he's ever been.

Send him a prayer if you will. Good wishes/vibes are equally welcome. This kid has to make it, he WILL make it, and any and all support appreciated.

FWIW he has a shaky but viable bankroll right now. I am very strongly considering giving him $200 or so to add to it and if anyone wants to get in on the action let me know. He's good, he's damn good, but for years now he ALWAYS sets himself up to fail by not playing with a roll, not game selecting and fending off the urge to jump out a window and run toward the nearest crack dealers house.

To be blunt- this could well be his time. He's got good action at a local cardroom with a bunch of fish not two miles from his sle, The stars couldn't line up more perfectly IMO.

GL NEVERHEEB

Having a bit of experience with addiction and the addictive personaity, I'd venture to say that gambling is one of the things that leads Heeb into his downslope behaviors. If you truly want to support his sobriety, I'd venture clear of any poker contributions. I love Heeb and wish the best for him - I'm just a student of human nature and I do not think one can separate the addictions in any incisive way.

Thanks. So essentially I was right from the get go, and shouldn't be swayed because he's making money back into co-depenedent behavior. I can do that.

He has an interview (likely a hookup if he's a decent interviewee) at a nice restaurant in a few days, and jasep had a great idea. I'll make sure he looks pimped out for that interview and give him a ride etc.

Fingers crossed folks.

[WillieMcFML]

Tell Heeb to go to Minot, ND and work in the oil fields.

He can make a 100K a year easy, and he's built for physical work like that.

There is a serious boom out there. Takes 30 - 45 minutes just to get McDonalds there, and they've literally imported Asian women to work there.

Bro if you have connections he and I both could be en route within a week. Speak on this.

might be good for you mike but def not heeb

a good percentage of the people who work there are loaded

not the best place for a recovering crackhead

[408Mike]

Bro if you have connections he and I both could be en route within a week. Speak on this.

might be good for you mike but def not heeb

a good percentage of the people who work there are loaded

not the best place for a recovering crackhead

He's going to have to face temptation eventually. This sounds like a good bit better than the poker idea.

[WillieMcFML]

might be good for you mike but def not heeb

a good percentage of the people who work there are loaded

not the best place for a recovering crackhead

He's going to have to face temptation eventually. This sounds like a good bit better than the poker idea.

heeb will be trapped in a remote location, getting paid several thousand dollars per paycheck in an industry where a huge percentage of your coworkers are smoking crack, doing coke or meth just to get through the 14 hour days

great place for heeb. mike, you're right

[Vwls]

The most complex/challenging piece in rehabilitation is creating a whole new life where before, there was a drug life.

A drug life revolves around giving in to the part of you that is sick, and surrounding yourself with people and circumstances that enable that sickness.

A new life requires distancing yourself from all that the old life offered - and it is imperative that the person find a job/career that has nothing to do with the old existence, as well as a social group in this new reality.

Gambling cannot be a part of this if it's going to work. That is why the only successful rehabs are the ones that provide job training and placement for their residents.

Did Heeb go to a good rehab? After rehab he has to go to a 'safe house' where they put him to work, teach him job skills, and surround him with a new community. I know we talked a few times briefly about this via email when Heeb was recovering, but we didn't go into too much detail. If he isn't getting this kind of environment and structure, then it's all a waste of time unfortunately, and he will fall back into the same old patterns.

[408Mike]

He's going to have to face temptation eventually. This sounds like a good bit better than the poker idea.

heeb will be trapped in a remote location, getting paid several thousand dollars per paycheck in an industry where a huge percentage of your coworkers are smoking crack, doing coke or meth just to get through the 14 hours days

great place for heeb. mike, you're right

We can work with it though. In the middle of the night when his sweaty shaking palms are twisting the pipe to his cracked purple lips, ILL SMASH THAT SHIT and gouge him in the chest with it. He'll learn his lesson.

[408Mike]

The most complex/challenging piece in rehabilitation is creating a whole new life where before, there was a drug life.

A drug life revolves around giving in to the part of you that is sick, and surrounding yourself with people and circumstances that enable that sickness.

A new life requires distancing yourself from all that the old life offered - and it is imperative that the person find a job/career that has nothing to do with the old existence, as well as a social group in this new reality.

Gambling cannot be a part of this if it's going to work. That is why the only successful rehabs are the ones that provide job training and placement for their residents.\

Did Heeb go to a good rehab? After rehab he has to go to a 'safe house' where they put him to work, teach him job skills, and surround him with a new community. I know we talked a few times briefly about this via email when Heeb was recovering, but we didn't go into too much detail. If he isn't getting this kind of environment and structure, then it's all a waste of time unfortunately, and he will fall back into the same old patterns.

I sent you some details but I can do so again.

The place he is at I hate, he seems to like though. It's a fucking low rent flophouse for drug addicts some of whom use here and there some are court ordered etc. A few guys have lived there for years because the rent is cheap.

I hate hate hate it.

Job skills? No. Job placement? No. He's just got a shit room with a curfew no one checks and he can't have people in his room. OH and he's piss tested twice a week. That's probably the extent of it really in essence, urine sampling and a curfew at night, and no one in your room.

otherwise its like any other crap residence in santa cruz.

[WillieMcFML]

heeb will be trapped in a remote location, getting paid several thousand dollars per paycheck in an industry where a huge percentage of your coworkers are smoking crack, doing coke or meth just to get through the 14 hours days

great place for heeb. mike, you're right

We can work with it though. In the middle of the night when his sweaty shaking palms are twisting the pipe to his cracked purple lips, ILL SMASH THAT SHIT and gouge him in the chest with it. He'll learn his lesson.

i take it back, you boys will be fine