Has Men ever discussed or admitted to any of those things from the past?
Has Men ever discussed or admitted to any of those things from the past?
How in the fucking hell can anyone not notice sooner the CLEARLY different shade of gray chips in play? I mean they aren't even fucking close. Jesus.
Such a fail.
True which common sense would lend you to believe they were only introduced late into day 2, and probably were actually seen within some hours of introduction.Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler
Unless they were really slick, and did it 1 at a time, from early on introduced them and got real chips in return, kinda like how people monetize counterfeit money. Except if this happened you would think at least one dealer would have noticed.
I'll just leave this here.
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No, the closest you'll ever get is Negreanu's candid explanation from an old QuadJacks episode where he intimated that Men's transgressions were mainly from pressure. Here is my recap of it from a few years ago:
... we also got Daniel’s take regarding the rampant rumors of Men “The Master” Nguyen’s cheating; with Daniel saying he sort of felt bad for Men.
Daniel didn’t absolve Men of the cheating allegations, but did explain the reason why Men is often accused of playing in a cheating pack and soft-playing his “horses”. According to Daniel, Men was under a lot of pressure from the Vietnamese community to not bust Vietnamese players in tournaments. Daniel said that if he didn’t soft-play the other Vietnamese players –some of whom Daniel described as gang members--he was threatened, with the players saying “I know where you live Men The Master”.
Of course Daniel then went on to detail two legitimate soft-playing/chip-dumping scenarios with Men, and implicated him in more serious charges –charges Daniel didn’t go into detail about, but likely having to do with missing chips, spotters, and other more serious allegations that have haunted Men through the years.
I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets
I've heard the tourney chips at Borgata aren't exactly "uniform" to begin with
I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets
:
I've heard about massive amounts of shenanigans at the Hollywood 10M tournament. You can't use the same chips that they use at at the daily $60 tournament that you do for the $10M super event. The problem has obviously spread.
from PocketFives Dan Cypra
Friday was a rather eventful day in the Borgata Winter Poker Open. The opening event was suspended at the start of Day 3 when 27 players remained after it was speculated that counterfeit chips with a value of 5,000 were found in play. Read more about the drama. Twenty-four hours later, Borgata officials announced the event had been canceled. As for the future of the prize pool, PokerNews relayed, "All unpaid prize money will be frozen until the investigation is complete."
First place was scheduled to make $372,000 and the top four finishers were scheduled to make six-figures.
Borgata President and COO Tom Ballance told PokerNews, "Thus far, investigators have found that one or more tournament entrants improperly introduced a significant number of counterfeit chips into the tournament, gaining an unfair advantage and compromising the integrity of play for the event."
He added, "It is extremely unfortunate that the criminal actions of these individuals can have a detrimental impact on more than 4,000 other entrants. We fully understand and regret the disappointment this cancellation causes our valued customers and we will work diligently with DGE investigators to resolve the situation as quickly as possible. The integrity of our games and the confidence of our players is of the utmost importance to us."
Other Winter Poker Open events, including the WPT Main Event, will be held as planned.
Cries of #chipgate rang out on Twitter throughout the day on Saturday, with poker player Ben Mintz chirping, "If I was one of the last 27 players in the Borgata 2 mil poker tourney, I would not be very happy right now!" A parody of #chipgate was posted on Twitter (pictured).
Speaking of the final 27, one of the members of the group posted on Two Plus Two on Saturday night, "I think we are getting paid. Conjecture of course. Right now, all we know is that the prize pool is being held while the investigation is going on. As you can imagine, it was a wild and emotional scene when [Borgata Senior Vice President of Operations] Joe Lupo took the 27 of us behind locked doors and told us the tourney was cancelled and that no prizes would be immediately forthcoming."
According to the Associated Press, no charges have been filed. The AP story was featured on the home page of Yahoo. We'll keep you posted on the latest.
Men has been caught passing chips under a bathroom stall to one or more of his scumbag cohorts and was caught with tourny chips in his hotel room because he was cooking on some hot plate type of thing and started a fire.
He is not some criminal mastermind.
I don't doubt a lot of the stories though some are definitely stretched but technically Men wasn't found guilty of much when you consider he wasn't barred from playing at casino properties all over. Some rumors are that he was banned from a few places like Foxwoods but I don't think I've ever heard 100% confirmation on this.
So if the casinos didn't discover a lot of the supposed cheating he did then Men is only guilty by conclusions other people have come to.
Even though I say this I believe he's guilty of course of foul play but still I'm just calling the situation like I see it and because Men wasn't barred all around I do think he's at least more intelligent then sneaking a bunch of fake chips into this tournament.
If their was one or two fake ones that would seem way more possible but I don't think Men and his crew bring a bunch into a tournament especically when he brought suspicions on himself already from years ago.
I could be wrong obviously but if Men and his cronies went this far then it's extremely retarded and much more risky then I think they would go. Personally, I just see them dumping to one another or taking a big chip off their stack to give to another person in their clan on break more then bringing in tons of fake chips.
As for the Hard Rock Florida situation that Matusow is discussing in the posted video that casino was super new at the time and someone probably thought if they wanted to pull one over why not try on a casino having their first massive field tournament? It was a perfect mark for a cheater to take chances at.
If any casino uses the same chips for these re-entries the following day allowing new entries then they are retarded as hell.
I don't doubt a lot of the stories though some are definitely stretched but technically Men wasn't found guilty of much when you consider he wasn't barred from playing at casino properties all over. Some rumors are that he was banned from a few places like Foxwoods but I don't think I've ever heard 100% confirmation on this.
So if the casinos didn't discover a lot of the supposed cheating he did then Men is only guilty by conclusions other people have come to.
Even though I say this I believe he's guilty of course of foul play but still I'm just calling the situation like I see it and because Men wasn't barred all around I do think he's at least more intelligent then sneaking a bunch of fake chips into this tournament.
If their was one or two fake ones that would seem way more possible but I don't think Men and his crew bring a bunch into a tournament especically when he brought suspicions on himself already from years ago.
I could be wrong obviously but if Men and his cronies went this far then it's extremely retarded and much more risky then I think they would go. Personally, I just see them dumping to one another or taking a big chip off their stack to give to another person in their clan on break more then bringing in tons of fake chips.
As for the Hard Rock Florida situation that Matusow is discussing in the posted video that casino was super new at the time and someone probably thought if they wanted to pull one over why not try on a casino having their first massive field tournament? It was a perfect mark for a cheater to take chances at.
If any casino uses the same chips for these re-entries the following day allowing new entries then they are retarded as hell.
Men isnt dumb. He works with a huge crew of Vietnamese scammers. The sophistication of those crews is well documented.
Their priorities are:
1) Insulate Men from liability.
2) Chip up Men.
When Men makes money, they make money.
I dont want to get into a huge thing about Vietnamese gangs but read Jim Goad's article about them for a suitable primer. Men is a community leader, aka a fucking gangster. And there are rules in that community that play real well into making sure these 'rumors' about Men stay plausibly denied just enough to keep him at the trough.
But make no mistake, the man is a criminal, and if you really digest the source and scope of the rumors about him, I dont really think youll find yourself that concerned with meeting the standards for legal conviction.
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My understanding is that he has responded with "I have never been caught cheating".
Men's a scumball.
On Twitter, Men has assured us that all of the Borgata chips that he sold are 100% pure
https://twitter.com/MenHouseOfChip/status/424828671178731520
This would have been caught immediately if this poker tournament was held in Las Vegas.
Is the poker staff at the Borgata in Atlantic City smoking crack?
The WPT needs to pull all their poker tournaments out of the Borgata right now.
or the Borgata could just make Men "The Master" Nguyen their poker ambassador.
that thread at 2+2 is a complete abortion. I have never seen so many people so sure of what happened, with minimal evidence, who also think they know the best way to handle things, and they are mostly all awful.
How can people suggest that two days (or more) after the tourney was cancelled, that they restart it and play it out? Seriously!?
Their payout ideas are a joke
They arent taking into consideration the legalities of what the Borgata has to potentially deal with.
I loved the suggestion that every single player get their entire tourney entry refunded AND each of the 27 remaining players get paid first-place money. Why not have Borgata staff personally give each player a handie while they're at it?
maybe this is more sinister than it sounds.. 2 racks of chips being snuck in sounds a little far fetched because it is. I have a different theory. I fired two bullets in this tournament. On my first buyin my stack was waiting for me at the table. The chip stack was dirty dull worn down and dark. It's probobly been used for years and never washed. My 2nd bullet my stack was given to me and the desk in the event center. It was obvious they were brand new and never used. The were slicker, clean, the grays were noticeably lighter colored and the chips still were sparkly that rubbed off on my fingers a little. I don't believe 200 chips were snuck into tournament unnoticed. There were no counterfeits, simple a later run of chips when the casino ordered more from than manufacture came out lighter than the original production run. The casino or someone managing the tournament was stealing buyins. An extra million in chips is $28000 missing from the pot. Wait and see what happens here.. It's a big deal.Here's one of the fake chips. TWO RACKS of these were smuggled in. It boggles the mind that this wasn't caught sooner.
I also find it interesting the borgata gave away 50 buyins on it's website. The exact amount of buyins for 50 players at 20k each is 1 million chips.maybe this is more sinister than it sounds.. 2 racks of chips being snuck in sounds a little far fetched because it is. I have a different theory. I fired two bullets in this tournament. On my first buyin my stack was waiting for me at the table. The chip stack was dirty dull worn down and dark. It's probobly been used for years and never washed. My 2nd bullet my stack was given to me and the desk in the event center. It was obvious they were brand new and never used. The were slicker, clean, the grays were noticeably lighter colored and the chips still were sparkly that rubbed off on my fingers a little. I don't believe 200 chips were snuck into tournament unnoticed. There were no counterfeits, simple a later run of chips when the casino ordered more from than manufacture came out lighter than the original production run. The casino or someone managing the tournament was stealing buyins. An extra million in chips is $28000 missing from the pot. Wait and see what happens here.. It's a big deal.Here's one of the fake chips. TWO RACKS of these were smuggled in. It boggles the mind that this wasn't caught sooner.
Its not terrible uncommon for casino tourneys to have some newer chips than older chips. So a color differential might not get noticed.True which common sense would lend you to believe they were only introduced late into day 2, and probably were actually seen within some hours of introduction.
Unless they were really slick, and did it 1 at a time, from early on introduced them and got real chips in return, kinda like how people monetize counterfeit money. Except if this happened you would think at least one dealer would have noticed.
Introducing the chips day two would be the easiest and safest way to do it. When you're bagging up chips or empty out your chip back it would be real easy to just pull some chips out of your pocket and add them to your stack.
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