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Thread: PokerByProxy - Give other people money to play poker for you. What could go wrong?

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    PokerByProxy - Give other people money to play poker for you. What could go wrong?

    http://pokerbyproxy.com

    Poker by Proxy works by taking your money, and distributing it amongst our team of skilled poker players. Our players then use your funds, combined with the funds of every other Poker by Proxy member, to play in some of the most profitable online games, as well as large offline tournaments. Depending on the size of the pool, the number of games which we play, as well as the types of games will vary.


    Take a look at the rest of the site. It's hilarious.

    They've been advertising on Craigslist, by the way, so obviously they have to be legit.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Advice for the con-artists running this thing:

    Try a bit harder to falsify believable data on the "results" page:

    https://pokerbyproxy.com/results.html

    You will notice that, if you scroll back to September (3 months worth of data), every single losing day is followed by 4 or more winning days. There is not one exception to this. Every time they "lose", it is ALWAYS followed by at least 4 consecutive days of winning.

    However, a losing day DOES seem to occur typically after 4-5 days of winning, though occasionally they will run off as many as 7 winners in a row.

    The chance for the losing days to be this perfectly dispersed between winners is almost zero.

    Why do they do this?

    I suspect they never want to make it look like a "losing streak" is starting, so they never want to place two losing days too close together. They're probably also afraid to go back and edit the past results to be a more realistic distribution (fearing they will scare away potential marks who notice the editing), so they just stick to this highly predictable pattern.

    Or they're just idiots.

    Haven't figured out which one yet.

  3. #3
    Poker Investigative Journalist
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    I vote for "just idiots." If you check out the "Poker By Proxy" Facebook account, it's being run by some guy screen-named DRsom Shetty, who is clearly a multi-level marketer from India. The funny thing about it all is that ol' "DRsom" is using the photo of a well-known German business exec named Martin Goetzeler on his PbP account, instead of his own pic. Using a bogus pic is as big a tipoff as anything that this is a scam; you'd think if he's an online MLM expert he'd have a clue how Google Image search works, but no....

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    Poker Investigative Journalist
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    And voila, a -99.00% appears for their Friday, November 29th entry.

    I believe this is...:

    1) Realizing that the jig is up and that they've been outed here and at 4;

    2) Chip-dumping whatever remains in the so-called "active" accounts to their backup accounts, saved for just this moment (hence the -99%);

    3) A rapid disappearing from those couple of forums where they've been touting this Ponzi scheme. As Douglas Adams wrote, "So long and thanks for all the fish."

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    Bronze VegasJim's Avatar
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    This has to be the most obvious scam I have ever seen. Its like in "Vegas Vacation" "Pick A Number 1-10"

    Name:  pickAnumber.jpg
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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    nh jasep, wp

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    The hilarious thing is that they have "made" 4.20% back again, meaning that they are still trying to keep the scam going, for those idiots who think that they might be able to build back up from 1%.

    Just as I suspected, they mainly victimized idiots in the bitcoin community. The poker community, while often also dumb and naive, was not a good target for this, as there are enough members of the community able to quickly call them out, and thus kill attempts to promote.

    Here is a conversation between some dumbass bitcoin investor and PokerByProxy. He wanted to withdraw his 1.2 BTC investment once BTC hit 1200. Good luck with that.

    THIS IS COPY FROM POKER BY PROXY HISTORY AND TICKET FROM SUPORT
    1.2416 btc i have on this site it is 1200$
    what is with withdraw request ?
    From administrator
    Sent on November 26th 2013
    What about it?

    Jack

    From administrator
    Sent on November 26th 2013
    Within 48 hours. We are just waiting on an incoming funding order.

    Jack

    ----------------------------------
    api on 26/11/2013 16:39:50
    when will you send btc from withdraw ?

    History

    Below you will find a detailed list of all transactions that have occurred in your Poker By Proxy account. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact one of our customer support specialists using our support centre.

    History

    Below you will find a detailed list of all transactions that have occurred in your Poker By Proxy account. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact one of our customer support specialists using our support centre.
    Date Message
    25/11/2013 20:18 Your investments have earned you 0.0104 bitcoins
    25/11/2013 18:37 Bitcoin withdrawal request for 0.7416 bitcoins
    24/11/2013 22:38 Your investments have earned you 0.0138 bitcoins
    24/11/2013 21:47 Account updated
    23/11/2013 20:12 Your investments have earned you 0.0357 bitcoins
    22/11/2013 21:22 Your investments have earned you 0.0134 bitcoins
    21/11/2013 20:36 Your investments have earned you 0.0242 bitcoins
    21/11/2013 17:31 Bitcoin deposit for 0.4938 bitcoins completed [Ref: bitcoin_LzObpo89]
    20/11/2013 22:03 Your investments have earned you 0.0148 bitcoins
    19/11/2013 22:09 Your investments have lost 0.0263 bitcoins
    18/11/2013 21:20 Your investments have earned you 0.0157 bitcoins
    17/11/2013 16:56 Your investments have earned you 0.0136 bitcoins
    16/11/2013 23:25 Your investments have earned you 0.0111 bitcoins
    15/11/2013 23:16 Your investments have earned you 0.0195 bitcoins
    15/11/2013 21:12 Bitcoin withdrawal for 0.5000 bitcoins completed [Ref: 1MEEprngkH6aqk7By5VcVcBDSWoR1jTybK]
    15/11/2013 20:10 Bitcoin withdrawal request for 0.50 bitcoins
    14/11/2013 23:42 Your investments have lost 0.0333 bitcoins
    13/11/2013 22:59 Your investments have earned you 0.0147 bitcoins
    12/11/2013 21:05 Your investments have earned you 0.0297 bitcoins
    12/11/2013 15:54 Bitcoin deposit for 1.0000 bitcoins completed [Ref: bitcoin_3nhPpTT9]
    11/11/2013 23:12 Your investments have earned you 0.0012 bitcoins
    11/11/2013 17:10 Bitcoin deposit for 0.1000 bitcoins completed [Ref: bitcoin_3JdJc7IK]
    11/11/2013 09:27 Account updated
    11/11/2013 08:59 Account created
    If you're having a hard time reading the above, note that the month-day format is backwards (European format), so 12/11/2013 is actually November 12, 2013.

    So basically this guy deposited 0.1 bitcoins on November 11, 1.0 bitcoins on November 12, and 0.4938 bitcoins on November 21. This means he deposited 1.5938 bitcoins (close to $2000 today, though less when he deposited).

    He "withdrew" 1.2416 bitcoins (in 2 separate withdrawals), and despite the first one for 0.5 btc being "processed", he received no money.

    They made a lame excuse, and then just stopped answering him.

     
    Comments
      
      Belly Buster: month-day format looks just right to me

  9. #9
    Cubic Zirconia
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    How could anyone deposit here. Suicide with money.

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    Bronze Matt The Rat's Avatar
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    They are blaming Paypal for scamming them. Sha Right!
    Last edited by Matt The Rat; 11-30-2013 at 07:07 PM.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Over the past few months, Poker by Proxy has been having an amazing time. Profits were great, and our users were fun to correspond with. However, things have changed, and in the process have totally destroyed us. Today's loss is not a typo. While we haven't completely lost that amount, we have taken massive losses thanks to Paypal and a few other unforeseeable events. It is with great dismay that I post tonight's update. Below I have outlined the primary challenges that we are facing, along with the plan to move forward.

    Payment Processors

    The main problem is that the payment processors seem to be run by thieves. Paypal has now managed to steal the vast majority of the funds that were deposited. Not only have they frozen accounts, they have billed our personal credit cards, bank accounts, and more. Paypal is one of the biggest scams I have ever seen, and somehow they manage to get away with it. To make matters worse, some idiotic investors have caused problems by starting disputes when their withdrawals weren't paid instantly. We are VERY clear about how withdrawals work, yet some of our members seem to be illiterate. That brings me to the next challenge we've been facing:

    The Users

    The vast majority of PBP users are friendly individuals, however there is a relatively large handful that seem hell bent on causing problems. These users have managed to freeze many of our accounts, reverse payments, threaten us when withdrawals aren't paid within an hour, and much more. Furthermore, these users post negative comments on forums and blogs and then demand ransom money in order to have them removed. It's unbelievable.

    The Plan

    Moving forward we must make some major changes. First of all, we're removing Paypal all together. I also encourage anyone who uses Paypal to stop working with such a fraudulent company. The next step will be to get things back to normal as soon as possible. With the heavy burden of the frozen funds out of the way, profits will resume. In terms of making sure no one loses out, we've compiled a list of all of our users, along with their total deposits and withdrawals. A portion of each day's winnings will now been used to bring everyone back up into the green (most members are in profit already). Please note that there will be some rules when it comes to this.

    1) Anyone who threatens us or anyone associated with Poker by Proxy will voluntarily forfeit any funds that they have deposited with Poker by Proxy. We are tired of the ridiculous threats. We have actually received threats of violence when a user's withdrawal took more than 2 hours. We have no interest in dealing with such idiots.

    2) If you send any message requesting that your payment be expedited, your funds will be forfeited. Such messages simply waste everyone's time.

    3) The recovery process covers deposits, not overall account balances.

    4) Withdrawals will now be paid within 72 hours. If you complain, as many of you have when your withdrawal was processed within a few hours, your account will be forfeited.

    Today's events are unfortunate, however with a bit of luck, we can get everything back to normal in the near future.

  12. #12
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Here is where they harvested most of the idiots: http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Poker...o-t455503.html

    Here is the point where the wheels started to fall off in the thread (only 697 posts in, lol): http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Poker...03.html&st=697

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Looks like their strategy was to pay out the tiny withdrawals (the ones less than $20), thus creating positive word-of-mouth, while stalling the ones withdrawing anything substantial.

    Maybe they're not as dumb as I thought.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Speaking of Paypal, there is some scamming going on.... except it's by PokerByProxy against their users:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBank
    Obviously a lie as we all know that only a small percentage of their deposits were by PayPal and in fact, they refunded most of them when they first had trouble with PayPal (I had $1,000 refunded).

    As for threatening us with not paying, that's criminal and meaningless since the assholes are not paying anyway. I would suggest everyone complains to their payment processor and mentions the threats in the hope that the scammers will have as much of their funds frozen as possible.

    Even if all their PayPal has been frozen, that would only warrant a 10% loss - 99% is simply theft. I see some gullible people are still believing what they say!

    Warning signs were the stupid free holidays they awarded a few days ago...
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBank
    Interesting development.

    Those scammers at Poker By Proxy have instigated a dispute with PayPal over my last withdrawal saying that they never got the goods they paid for!

    So, not only have they stolen the money in our accounts, they are trying to get withdrawals refunded from PayPal.


    Also, LOL at today's update:

    Saturday 30th November 2013

    Result 4.20%
    Report

    Quite a lot happening here over the past 24 hours as you all know. We have received more than 400 e-mails and internal messages since yesterday's update, and I'm sure that we have numerous more to come. Please be patient if you don't receive a reply right away. Today's result of 4.2% has been posted and all accounts have been updated.
    Recovery Process

    As mentioned yesterday, we are embarking on a recovery process to ensure that no one loses out with Poker by Proxy. We have compiled a list of all accounts, along with their total deposits and withdrawals. We will be systemically going through the system clearing names from the list as we get to them. We have posted today's recovery results below. The following users have either been paid a refund or are already in profit.

    besuccess.me
    hyipbox
    mnoblog
    tigr
    kiwin
    primfund
    talkgold
    abciximab
    laikos
    dodge
    teamb2c
    wind
    sribose
    chiefboygolf
    dougc
    winlose
    bobben
    moneysolution
    MikeCO
    rlab18

    We were quite clear yesterday that users who sent pointless threats would voluntarily forfeit their right to the refund/recovery process. The following users have done just that.

    sliceman420
    GreatIncome
    Naxxar


    Anyway, lots more to come as we move forward towards a full recovery.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    On a side note, I am flattered that someone copy-and-pasted my post about the 1-loss-4-win pattern, and posted it on that moneymaker site as their own.

  16. #16
    Gold sah_24's Avatar
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    riday 29th November 2013

    Result -99.00%
    Report

    Over the past few months, Poker by Proxy has been having an amazing time. Profits were great, and our users were fun to correspond with. However, things have changed, and in the process have totally destroyed us. Today's loss is not a typo. While we haven't completely lost that amount, we have taken massive losses thanks to Paypal and a few other unforeseeable events. It is with great dismay that I post tonight's update. Below I have outlined the primary challenges that we are facing, along with the plan to move forward.

    Payment Processors

    The main problem is that the payment processors seem to be run by thieves. Paypal has now managed to steal the vast majority of the funds that were deposited. Not only have they frozen accounts, they have billed our personal credit cards, bank accounts, and more. Paypal is one of the biggest scams I have ever seen, and somehow they manage to get away with it. To make matters worse, some idiotic investors have caused problems by starting disputes when their withdrawals weren't paid instantly. We are VERY clear about how withdrawals work, yet some of our members seem to be illiterate. That brings me to the next challenge we've been facing:

    The Users

    The vast majority of PBP users are friendly individuals, however there is a relatively large handful that seem hell bent on causing problems. These users have managed to freeze many of our accounts, reverse payments, threaten us when withdrawals aren't paid within an hour, and much more. Furthermore, these users post negative comments on forums and blogs and then demand ransom money in order to have them removed. It's unbelievable.

    The Plan

    Moving forward we must make some major changes. First of all, we're removing Paypal all together. I also encourage anyone who uses Paypal to stop working with such a fraudulent company. The next step will be to get things back to normal as soon as possible. With the heavy burden of the frozen funds out of the way, profits will resume. In terms of making sure no one loses out, we've compiled a list of all of our users, along with their total deposits and withdrawals. A portion of each day's winnings will now been used to bring everyone back up into the green (most members are in profit already). Please note that there will be some rules when it comes to this.

    1) Anyone who threatens us or anyone associated with Poker by Proxy will voluntarily forfeit any funds that they have deposited with Poker by Proxy. We are tired of the ridiculous threats. We have actually received threats of violence when a user's withdrawal took more than 2 hours. We have no interest in dealing with such idiots.

    2) If you send any message requesting that your payment be expedited, your funds will be forfeited. Such messages simply waste everyone's time.

    3) The recovery process covers deposits, not overall account balances.

    4) Withdrawals will now be paid within 72 hours. If you complain, as many of you have when your withdrawal was processed within a few hours, your account will be forfeited.

    Today's events are unfortunate, however with a bit of luck, we can get everything back to normal in the near future.

    ROFL how are people so fucking gullible , really boggles my mind at times ..........

  17. #17
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    The level of denial being exhibited on that forum is just unbelievable:

    Quote Originally Posted by BllAcKsHaDoW
    this is amazing work , I hope all those who didn't made profit will have their deposit refunds in time . Patience is everything and Negativity will not give any Profit . So if PBP coming back then we have to wait .
    Congo those who got refunds already and Thanks Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by annie1024
    I agree 100%!


    They already said that they were going to make things right with those not in profit and HOPEFULLY
    come back.

    What is the point of putting in disputes with the pp's?

    Do you want all the funds frozen and nobody get a refund????

    Why can't everyone just take what they said at face value and give them a chance to make
    things right?


  18. #18
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Here are 3 videos by Poker by Proxy, from September.

    Two are from "Jack", and the other is by "Kendall".

    These are indeed names of people "involved" with Poker By Proxy (at least the names they use when communicating with its victims), but I don't think the guys in the video have anything to do with this.

    I believe they are web actors, who were paid to make these messages. You can find people to do this for as little as $5 on sites like fiver.com.

    I think it's likely that these web actors had no idea that they were promoting a scam. They probably just thought they were being the American faces of foreign companies trying to market their product.

    There are two reasons I believe these guys NOT to actually be involved in the company:

    1) They're both American. The people behind Poker By Proxy appear to be non-American by all appearances, including their "backwards" use of the date format.

    2) They both speak too well. The average businessman comes off as a doddering fool when he gets in front of the camera to produce marketing videos. These guys seem experienced regarding speaking to the camera and using a pleasant, marketing-friendly tone of voice. It's a lot harder to do this than it appears. "Kendall" also does this in front of a completely white background -- something unlikely to be seen if the video is being produced by amateurs.






  19. #19
    Gold sah_24's Avatar
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    QUOTE (fishtaco @ Nov 30 2013, 08:36 AM) *
    I was never dumb enough to put in money into this so I wasn't the one complaining. What happened to the 4% stop loss? So you are ok with collecting a profit even if it's basically someone elses money and not actual profit from the program. Anyone that knows anything about poker knows this was a complete scam. I'm sorry you happened to be dumb enough to fall for it along with many on this forum.

    So do you want to buy my unicorn horn? I give you good price smile.gif
    well i never look this as real Poker playing program , I always looked this as a simple HYIP . So this is how HYIP works , Some loss and some gain smile.gif This is how PONZI works !!




    Apparently some know that most stuff on this site is a PONZI scheme and just dont care i guess ?

  20. #20
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sah_24 View Post
    QUOTE (fishtaco @ Nov 30 2013, 08:36 AM) *
    I was never dumb enough to put in money into this so I wasn't the one complaining. What happened to the 4% stop loss? So you are ok with collecting a profit even if it's basically someone elses money and not actual profit from the program. Anyone that knows anything about poker knows this was a complete scam. I'm sorry you happened to be dumb enough to fall for it along with many on this forum.

    So do you want to buy my unicorn horn? I give you good price smile.gif
    well i never look this as real Poker playing program , I always looked this as a simple HYIP . So this is how HYIP works , Some loss and some gain smile.gif This is how PONZI works !!




    Apparently some know that most stuff on this site is a PONZI scheme and just dont care i guess ?
    While I'm sure plenty of those people would be happy to be part of a Ponzi as long as they profited from it, I think most of the people claiming they knew all along are just saving face.

    Rather than admitting they got scammed and bamboozled, they instead say, "Yeah, I knew it was a Ponzi the whole time, but I knew exactly when to hop in and out, in order to make money!"

    Also, I don't classify this as much of a Ponzi. It was more of an outright scam. The only two Ponzi-like elements were the paying out some money at the beginning, and the paying of very small withdrawals at the end.

    A traditional Ponzi is a scam where earlier investors are paid at the expense of later investors, while everyone is led to believe that the investment is actually profiting.

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