Snowden heading for Moscow and then to unknown country

[anonamoose]

BEIJING -- Hong Kong authorities allowed wanted former U.S. National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden to fly out of the city on Sunday after finding that documents supplied by Washington seeking his arrest did not “fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law.”

Snowden was en route to a “third country,” officials in the Chinese territory said. The South China Morning Post, a Hong Kong newspaper that had repeated contact with the American during his month-long stay in the city, reported that Snowden left on a flight bound for Moscow.

Russia’s ITAR-Tass news agency, citing an unidentified Aeroflot airlines official, said Snowden would fly from Moscow to Cuba on Monday and then on to Venezuela. Last week, Iceland had also been mentioned as a possible destination for Snowden.

Exactly how Snowden's departure was arranged was unclear, but WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has praised him as a "hero," and according to the organization's Twitter feed, Snowden was accompanied on the flight to Russia by WikiLeaks legal advisors.

"WikiLeaks has assisted Mr. Snowden's political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers and safe exit from Hong Kong," the group said.

U.S. authorities are seeking to prosecute Snowden for disclosing to the media a trove of documents detailing secret American surveillance programs. On Friday, U.S. authorities revealed that Snowden had been charged with theft of government property and two violations of the Espionage Act: unauthorized communication of national defense information and providing U.S. classified intelligence to an unauthorized person.

Hong Kong officials said Sunday that U.S. authorities had asked Hong Kong to issue a provisional arrest warrant for Snowden but that without “sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr. Snowden from leaving Hong Kong.”

Hong Kong authorities said they had informed the U.S. government of Snowden's departure and said they would continue to seek details from Washington about Snowden’s revelations that U.S. hacking activities had targeted facilities in Hong Kong.

Snowden’s departure from Hong Kong offered both officials in the semi-autonomous Chinese territory and authorities in Beijing a face-saving if inelegant solution to a complicated situation that threatened to strain relations for years had Snowden exercised his various rights to appeal or applied for asylum.

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/wo...,2899790.story


Is there anyone here that doesn't agree with what this guy did?

The only people that I've seen are people that are convinced he was a Chinese spy or some stupid shit. For the most part is seems the general consensus is that he did the right thing. If he went on trail here I think it would cause a pretty big uproar.

[DRK Star]

I dont agree with what the guy did.

Provided the people who had access to all the information were doing no harm with it (using data to wrongly prosecute people), I think he just alerted everyone in the world that we can spy on you, so people who DO have something to hide will now go to other extreme measures to protect their actions. If anyone was searching my communications, it doesnt really bother me, because there isnt really anything to hide. People are going to spy anyway and we cant stop them.

[4Dragons]

I dont agree with what the guy did.

Provided the people who had access to all the information were doing no harm with it (using data to wrongly prosecute people), I think he just alerted everyone in the world that we can spy on you, so people who DO have something to hide will now go to other extreme measures to protect their actions. If anyone was searching my communications, it doesnt really bother me, because there isnt really anything to hide. People are going to spy anyway and we cant stop them.

We've already established that intel from this has put Petraeus out of his job and one might wonder what they approached justice Roberts with that he's gone full useful idiot. J. Edgar Hoover did this shit to people one at a time, either uncovering or willfully baiting congressmen and presidents alike into situations that they would not recover from and then using it to get them to keep him in office. Now we just have everyone in one party using those same tactics, except they hope to find everyone's secrets so that anyone they need to flip, will.

If you don't care that anyone looks at your communication then you should put yourself on a list that they can then go look at you whenever they want. Don't ever think that anyone else does or should think the way that you do. The default is 'you can't look', not 'I don't care so you shouldn't either'. You can stop them, but you have to demand a better quality politician. BTW if this was Bush doing this, all the libtards would be rushing the white house gates en masse. Book it.

[Walter Sobchak]

I dont agree with what the guy did.

Provided the people who had access to all the information were doing no harm with it (using data to wrongly prosecute people), I think he just alerted everyone in the world that we can spy on you, so people who DO have something to hide will now go to other extreme measures to protect their actions. If anyone was searching my communications, it doesnt really bother me, because there isnt really anything to hide. People are going to spy anyway and we cant stop them.

Anyone with something to hide already knows that.

[Walter Sobchak]

I dont agree with what the guy did.

Provided the people who had access to all the information were doing no harm with it (using data to wrongly prosecute people), I think he just alerted everyone in the world that we can spy on you, so people who DO have something to hide will now go to other extreme measures to protect their actions. If anyone was searching my communications, it doesnt really bother me, because there isnt really anything to hide. People are going to spy anyway and we cant stop them.

We've already established that intel from this has put Petraeus out of his job and one might wonder what they approached justice Roberts with that he's gone full useful idiot. J. Edgar Hoover did this shit to people one at a time, either uncovering or willfully baiting congressmen and presidents alike into situations that they would not recover from and then using it to get them to keep him in office. Now we just have everyone in one party using those same tactics, except they hope to find everyone's secrets so that anyone they need to flip, will.

If you don't care that anyone looks at your communication then you should put yourself on a list that they can then go look at you whenever they want. Don't ever think that anyone else does or should think the way that you do. The default is 'you can't look', not 'I don't care so you shouldn't either'. You can stop them, but you have to demand a better quality politician. BTW if this was Bush doing this, all the libtards would be rushing the white house gates en masse. Book it.

this

[Walter Sobchak]

There are currently 8 users browsing this thread. (3 members and 5 guests)
Walter Sobchak, Baron Von Strucker, SchoenfeldsJawMuscles

lol

[Baron Von Strucker]

I am surprised there isnt more of a uproar about this shit the US government is up too, IMO next step full blown communism. the saying give them your hand and they will take your arm, comes into play here as far as i am concerned, it wont be long till there will be technology for them to easily hear reed and see any and all conversations held at any time and any place.......guess how that feels, quick answer NOT GOOD, next will be neighbours against neighbours, children telling on there parents for rewards and status.

This is one brave Kid and should be helped by the US people to fight the charges against him and for fuck sake charge the government for violating your basic rights as a citizen. i would also say that the US government have proved to be a bunch of bungling fools fucking up at every intersection they come to....... with there own political interests in mind and protecting the citizens as only a byproduct of there greed and paranoia, lust for more power.

poor people do minor crimes and spend years in jail and the real criminals who STEEL the peoples hard earned money get away with there crimes time and time again with little or no consequences for there actions, only if they fuck with the government by not giving them there cut ..... sounds a bit like organized crime or some master slave cenerio IMO.
I guess if the people decide to take the passive route there will be riots in the streets with in ten years when it will be too late and a dollar short.

[DRK Star]

I dont see how you are going to stop this.


The people at the TOP of the food chain in the US authorized it. Are you going to ask them nicely to stop? Get people to sign a petition? Appoint people BELOW THEM to make them stop (who will ask them nicely?).


I wasnt aware that it was officially confirmed that the govt verified that they used data they obtained illegally against Petreus.

[4Dragons]

I dont see how you are going to stop this.


The people at the TOP of the food chain in the US authorized it. Are you going to ask them nicely to stop? Get people to sign a petition? Appoint people BELOW THEM to make them stop (who will ask them nicely?).


I wasnt aware that it was officially confirmed that the govt verified that they used data they obtained illegally against Petreus.

When Obama was elected in 2008 I watched as he got rid of almost all of Bush's executive orders, sans one, the patriot act. From that point I knew what to expect and none of what has come to pass is either shocking or a revelation to me. Get the politicians that support the patriot act out of office and everyone gets their freedom back. You just have to back the right horse and in the case of Obama, he came out against the patriot act early on, but lied. Get it?

I read the petreus 'outing' and how they did it in a couple of different places, in his case it wasn't illegal because of his position, but it was done imho to get rid of him after he told the white house to go fuck themselves over the benghazi story. All of this will come out soon enough I suppose.

[DRK Star]

I viewed the Patriot act situation as one where Bush tells Obama, "Hey, I know you beat me and all...but there is something I need to tell you about. You will want to see the stuff we can spy on. Dont tell anyone."

Seriously, with THAT kind of power, it would have to be damn near impossible to just say, "No...this is wrong". You can justify it by saying you did it to protect your country. Anyone getting in the way of this would be removed, "removed" or bought.


and the minute it comes out that SERIOUS wrong-doings occurred because of this power, THAT is when the entire planet needs to revolt. Its really hard though to figure out what was used for gaining what information, or proving that our govt used this power to prosecute someone. With Petraus, I viewed it as a situation where someone can say, "Well, Petraus left his computer open one day, while logged in, and we saw things, and reported them to higher-ups". Plus, things get spun so hard by both parties that you dont know which way is up. Each side is so blatantly full of shit against the other that its hard to fully trust either. Its a mess.

[4Dragons]

I viewed the Patriot act situation as one where Bush tells Obama, "Hey, I know you beat me and all...but there is something I need to tell you about. You will want to see the stuff we can spy on. Dont tell anyone."

Seriously, with THAT kind of power, it would have to be damn near impossible to just say, "No...this is wrong". You can justify it by saying you did it to protect your country. Anyone getting in the way of this would be removed, "removed" or bought.


and the minute it comes out that SERIOUS wrong-doings occurred because of this power, THAT is when the entire planet needs to revolt. Its really hard though to figure out what was used for gaining what information, or proving that our govt used this power to prosecute someone. With Petraus, I viewed it as a situation where someone can say, "Well, Petraus left his computer open one day, while logged in, and we saw things, and reported them to higher-ups". Plus, things get spun so hard by both parties that you dont know which way is up. Each side is so blatantly full of shit against the other that its hard to fully trust either. Its a mess.

Occam's Razor: How many politicians and generals and other people of power (Barney Frank fucks little boys) have you seen get kicked out of their position because of a tryst? You almost never even hear of them unless the politician is uproariously stupid (Wiener tweets his wiener) and the press and their peers protect them until they just can't protect them anymore. That didn't happen with Petreaus, did it? Nobody outside of the white house knew shit and all of a sudden they held a press conference.

[Ryback_feed_me_more]

Last I heard Snowden was headed for Ecuador the same country thats harboring Assange at its embassy in London (should be familiar as Wikileaks is apparently actively helping him escape US authorities). The question is obvious though who's passport is he traveling under because the US State Dept revoked his passport apparently after the Chinese let him leave Hong Kong on a technicality. My guess is Putin slipped him one in Moscow just like they did to that ugly frog Gerard Depardieu (in his case dont blame him either when the fucking govt wants 75% of what I make they can go fuck themselves and Ill leave too).

[DRK Star]

In terms of Petraus, I actually never heard how they found out about the email situation. All I remember reading is that they shared an email account and they would each take turns logging in and leaving/reading emails they would leave as DRAFTS, so nothing was ever technically sent.

[4Dragons]

In terms of Petraus, I actually never heard how they found out about the email situation. All I remember reading is that they shared an email account and they would each take turns logging in and leaving/reading emails they would leave as DRAFTS, so nothing was ever technically sent.

Then the question becomes; if you question that little tidbit so hard, why do you give such leeway to the people that would freely spy on you for no good reason except to just save your comings and goings for a rainy day? Your focus is baffling here.

[DRK Star]

? Not sure what you mean here.

I dont know how people found out about Petraus and that woman. I thought you were infering that they were caught due to the NSA leaking things about them, but I have never heard that point stated.


My "point" is essentially that I dont see how we are going to stop people who have absolute power like the NSA has, and that this power seemed to not be such a bad thing, if they were using it to prevent major problems like terrorism.

If it get revealed 100% that they used this power to do other things, like blackmail people, I would completely be against it. I think revealing what we were doing to the entire world makes the US look absolutely horrible and our nations credibility is now shit. I didnt mind knowing that they may have been collecting my data, because I havent really done anything to alarm anyone (outside of my slight obsession with 18th century dwarf pornography).

[anonamoose]

? Not sure what you mean here.

I dont know how people found out about Petraus and that woman. I thought you were infering that they were caught due to the NSA leaking things about them, but I have never heard that point stated.


My "point" is essentially that I dont see how we are going to stop people who have absolute power like the NSA has, and that this power seemed to not be such a bad thing, if they were using it to prevent major problems like terrorism.

If it get revealed 100% that they used this power to do other things, like blackmail people, I would completely be against it. I think revealing what we were doing to the entire world makes the US look absolutely horrible and our nations credibility is now shit. I didnt mind knowing that they may have been collecting my data, because I havent really done anything to alarm anyone (outside of my slight obsession with 18th century dwarf pornography).

These are absolutely horrible ways of looking at things.

1. There has been nothing released showing that the NSA's spying on us has lead to any stoppage of terrorist events.
2. When you're saying "but how would we stop this" it means you've accepted the fact that we're not a democracy and we're not longer free and you're just laying down and letting them have their way with you.

It's not a matter of "if you're not doing anything wrong you don't have to worry", but it's a matter of there is the basic dignity we're due as humans that they're violating. What I do in my house isn't the government's business just as what I say on the phone or in e-mails isn't their's either. If I wanted them to know about something I'd cc the white house on all my correspondence.

[4Dragons]

? Not sure what you mean here.

I dont know how people found out about Petraus and that woman. I thought you were infering that they were caught due to the NSA leaking things about them, but I have never heard that point stated.


My "point" is essentially that I dont see how we are going to stop people who have absolute power like the NSA has, and that this power seemed to not be such a bad thing, if they were using it to prevent major problems like terrorism.

If it get revealed 100% that they used this power to do other things, like blackmail people, I would completely be against it. I think revealing what we were doing to the entire world makes the US look absolutely horrible and our nations credibility is now shit. I didnt mind knowing that they may have been collecting my data, because I havent really done anything to alarm anyone (outside of my slight obsession with 18th century dwarf pornography).

Play with me a moment, would you? I am King. I have a General in my ranks that doesn't like the way I do things, even though the things I am doing are despicable. I ask my spies to 'find out something, anything' about the General to give me reason to make him go away without besmirching my credibility as King. A team of 100 spies collects everything about a person that they can, find numerous phone calls in the dead of night to a married woman - a woman that benefited greatly from her closeness to the General. The fun part of this is that the woman got a book deal and free publicity about it after the scandal was revealed. I wonder how well her book did after the scandal? You see, she may have been there for more than one reason.

Ok no more game playing, it's starting to look like a tawdry paperback and those kinds of events never actually take place throughout history. Time and time again. I mean like since Rome. Fuck it, I meant Greece.

[Fergie72]

I am surprised there isnt more of a uproar about this shit the US government is up too, IMO next step full blown communism. the saying give them your hand and they will take your arm, comes into play here as far as i am concerned, it wont be long till there will be technology for them to easily hear reed and see any and all conversations held at any time and any place.......guess how that feels, quick answer NOT GOOD, next will be neighbours against neighbours, children telling on there parents for rewards and status.

This is one brave Kid and should be helped by the US people to fight the charges against him and for fuck sake charge the government for violating your basic rights as a citizen. i would also say that the US government have proved to be a bunch of bungling fools fucking up at every intersection they come to....... with there own political interests in mind and protecting the citizens as only a byproduct of there greed and paranoia, lust for more power.

poor people do minor crimes and spend years in jail and the real criminals who STEEL the peoples hard earned money get away with there crimes time and time again with little or no consequences for there actions, only if they fuck with the government by not giving them there cut ..... sounds a bit like organized crime or some master slave cenerio IMO.
I guess if the people decide to take the passive route there will be riots in the streets with in ten years when it will be too late and a dollar short.

I too am surprised and dismayed that more people are not freaked out by this kind of governmental abuse of power. I cant decide if its because people are so wrapped up in their own day to day bullshit that they ignore it, or if its a kind of defense mechanism so they dont have to face up to the fact that the US is becoming a corrupt police state.

[gut]

I kind of agree with everyone in this thread, and disagree with everyone. I'm just going to paste in what i typed in elsewhere about this because i dont feel like typing a lot right now.

I'm sick of reading about the NSA and the "domestic spying." It's a fucking drop in the bucket compared to the real domestic spying happening now, and it's committed by EVERYONE. The easiest way to get a job done is to have others do the job for you. When you are walking down the street in an urban area with 40 other people, 30 of them are ready at the drop of a dime to pull out their phones and record you doing...whatever odd thing it might be you are doing. Then put it on Youtube of course, because WE ALL WANT TO BE A STAR AND HAVE 300,00 HITS OMGZZZZ.

But we all blame the government. George Carlin once talked about how these politicians don't come from magical places and put into power, they come from us....and this is the best we have to offer. "Garbage in, garbage out."

/end rant.....HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY!!!!

[Sitting Out]

I agree substantially with Snowden's actions. How far are we willing to allow the gov't invade our privacy under the guise of "national security?" Beyond being a privacy issue it's an open door for abuse, which is cloaked under secrecy and without any oversight. The NSA is so top secret that only a privileged few know what's going on. If you believe abuse is not an issue, then maybe you might consider what Nixon or Hoover did as an active US President and FBI director.

This quote sums it up for me:

The most frequently quoted statement by a Supreme Court justice on the subject of privacy comes in Justice Brandeis's dissent in Olmstead v. U. S. (1928):

"The makers of our Constitution understood the need to secure conditions favorable to the pursuit of happiness, and the protections guaranteed by this are much broader in scope, and include the right to life and an inviolate personality -- the right to be left alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men. The principle underlying the Fourth and Fifth Amendments is protection against invasions of the sanctities of a man's home and privacies of life. This is a recognition of the significance of man's spiritual nature, his feelings, and his intellect."