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Thread: Obamacare site keeps crashing... fears of epic failure in implementation comng true

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Obamacare site keeps crashing... fears of epic failure in implementation comng true

    Despite being a Republican, I don't automatically come out against everything done by Obama and the Democrats. I think about what's happening, and try to make a reasonable, independent evaluation.

    I had mixed feelings about Obamacare. This is because I believe that our current (pre-Obamacare) health care system is in great need of reform. It's a broken system. It has so many major flaws that major action really needed to be taken.

    I agreed with some of the goals and rules of Obamacare. "No lifetime maximum" was one of them. Other parts, such as allowing 26-year-olds to get insurance on their parents' plan (but not 27-year-olds) were really lame and likely pandering for votes. All of these things went into effect awhile ago.

    However, the "meat" of Obamacare was not to take place until January 1, 2014 -- the "Health Exchanges".

    Simply put, the primary goal of Obamacare was to allow -- and in fact force -- all Americans to get health insurance.

    Mitt Romney did something similar in Massachusetts.

    I actually supported the principle behind this.

    There was indeed a problem where some self-employed and unemployed couldn't get health insurance, where they were denied for the slightest of pre-existing conditions. This created a game of roll-and-reroll between the public and the insurance companies, where people would lie about their conditions to get insurance, and in turn insurance companies would sometimes look for every flimsy reason to deny payment for major procedures whenever someone needed to finally use their insurance for something big. It was (and still is) a disaster.

    At the same time, many uninsured thought it was their right to get free/cheap health coverage when they got sick, yet didn't pay into the system when they were healthy. If they didn't get this coverage, they cried foul. Also wrong.

    Unfortunately, I didn't like the Obamacare solution to this problem. I agreed with the necessity to fix the problem, and I agreed that the problem existed. I did not like the solution.

    Simply put, Obamacare is a shell game. It will not lower the staggeringly high cost of health care that our country is facing. Instead, it just shifts around the cost. The healthy will be paying a greater share of the costs to support the sick. The young will be paying a greater share of the cost to support the old. Keep in mind that the system was already like this, but Obamacare pushed it to more of an extreme.

    There are lots of falsehoods being shoved down our throat by pro-Obamacare forces in the media.

    "Your rates probably won't go up if you have existing care" -- FALSE

    "If your rates go up, it probably won't be that much" -- FALSE

    There are, of course, exceptions. If you were paying huge money to insure yourself due to a pre-existing condition, your rates will go down. If you were stuck with an expensive COBRA plan after losing your job and unable to get individual insurance, your rates will go down. If you are poor enough to qualify for government subsidies, your rates will go down.

    But for the majority of Americans, the out-of-pocket rates will go up -- in many cases, WAY up. It varies from state to state.

    My rates will indeed be increasing by a lot, and I'm not even particularly young.

    Obamacare has been under such attack by Republicans (some justified, some not-so-justified), that the White House is now extremely paranoid about "price data harvesting". That is, they don't want all of the rates to be easily viewable and harvested by the anti-Obamacare forces. They do not want a clear, concise report about Obamacare rates to be published by Republicans, with links back to the official Obamacare site for verification.

    So what did they do?

    They designed their site where you only see YOUR rate. This accomplishes two things for the White House:

    1) It prevents Republicans from harvesting all of the Obamacare cost data and providing clear links to the site to prove their claims about increased costs to Americans.

    2) It makes sure that people's subsidies are applied first before showing ANY rate, thereby giving poorer Americans the false impression that health insurance got a lot cheaper (rather than the fact that the government is footing much or all of the bill). It also prevents the poorer Americans from being startled by the high rate and being unable or unwilling to figure out their true rate from the subsidy.

    Now, the problem here is that it's much harder for a web server to process data than to simply display it.

    Displaying data is light on computer processing power, so provided that the site has enough bandwidth, it is easy for a website to display pages to a large number of users simultaneously.

    However, PROCESSING data (in this case, the information people enter about themselves), is very tough on the server, and if you multiply that by millions of simultaneous requests, the server will crash.

    Since you need to enter your info in order to see any useful information on the Obamacare site, it is creating a huge processing burden on the server, and the whole thing keeps crashing.



    There are two huge problems with this:

    1) This is an embarrassment for the White House. It's unbelievable that, with all of the money behind it, they could not build a robust enough site to handle the processing. It's like they hired a bunch of n00bs to implement this, which is already a really bad sign that the Obama administration is in over their heads, and this is just one of many failures we can expect as this is implemented.

    2) Why haven't they backed out their "enter-your-info-first" model at this point, and made it easier for everyone to view all plans and prices? This would stop the crashing immediately, but it's more important to the White House to keep the existing model and cover up the real price increases most Americans will face.

    Here is a Forbes article about it. It doesn't do the best job explaining the technical aspect of the crashes (the processing versus displaying thing, explained above), but otherwise it's pretty right on:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...ns-true-costs/

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    I purchase my own healthcare and despite not really loving this Obamacare I figured I would look up the plans available so I visited the website the second day it was up and it was slow as shit not to mention buggy. They kept saying on various media outlets it was over flooded with traffic and it would improve in the next few days so I waited and tried again only to run into the same issues.

    I haven't been back since and it makes you wonder if it's this much of a fail to look up prices what kind of coverage issues are you going to run into?

    Most healthcare companies are slow as hell already as it is and still bill the consumer more then they are supposed to in hopes people just pay it which causes them to take precious time to make several phone calls and fill out various paperwork to get it corrected. I'm sure a lot more headaches will occur from this Obamacare then the ones that already have.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Gov shutdown. Grossly diminished IT support.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Republicans probably pinging the shit out of the site.

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    Bronze Detroit's Avatar
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    I haven't been able to login to site but I did run across this.

    https://data.healthcare.gov/dataset/...no_mobile=true

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    PFA Emeritus Crowe Diddly's Avatar
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    The biggest problem with the health care reforms (as well as wall st reforms, and all so-called reforms in recent memory) is that the law is essentially being written by the people it is meant to govern or reign in, in this case the health insurance industry. Even the best of intentions get watered down and reversed by the time the laws are actually drawn up and passed.

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    How the government spent $634MILLION on the Obamacare website - more than it cost to build Facebook and Twitter - and it STILL doesn't work
    Price tag is six and a half times higher than original $94million contact

    By MICHAEL ZENNIE
    PUBLISHED: 11:31 EST, 10 October 2013 | UPDATED: 14:11 EST, 10 October 2013

    The federal government has spent $634million on the Obamacare website - more than it cost to build Facebook or Twitter, it was revealed today.

    Despite the massive bill to taxpayers, the Healthcare.gov still doesn't work properly ten days after it was launched - allowing only a handful of Americans to sign up for plans on the insurance exchange market.

    And experts warn that the site is likely to continue to experience significant glitches for months to come as engineers work out the bugs they failed to to spot before the site went live on October 1.

    The price tag for the broken healthcare site is more than six and a half times higher than what the government initially meant to pay.

    In 2011, the Obama Administration agreed to pay contractor CGI Federal $93.7million to build, launch and maintain Healthcare.gov.

    In the two and years since CGI Federal won the bid to build the Obamacare site, the company requested more and more money to cover cost over-runs. And the federal government had agreed.

    Experts say the site has dramatic problems with the back-end architecture has resulted in servers becoming overloaded and bogging down. But the interface is also a problem. Much of the site contains grammatical and typographical errors. Java Script errors prevent pages from loading correctly in browsers.

    Even more infuriating, Andrew Couts of Digital Trends points out, is the fact that much larger, more successful sites have been built for far less money.

    Facebook operated for its six years, until June 2010, on less than $600million in outside funding - a acquiring more than half a billion users and more than 130million monthly unique page views.

    Twitter, founded in 2006, operated on $360million in investment until 2011 - when servers were processing more than 140million tweets a day.

    The professional social network LinkedIn built a base of more than 230million users with $200million in funding.

    The Washington Post reports that 4.7million people tried to log onto the site in the first 24 hours.
    But, the government has refused to release traffic number for Healthcare.gov since.

    On Thursday, the site allowed visitors to create a username, but was not allowing log-ins.

    Digitial Trends points out that it's not as though the United States of is short on talent when it comes to developing online software - Americans invested the Internet itself, after all.

    CGI Federal has refused to comment on the glitches and why Healthcare.gov has failed to work - or when full service might be restored.

    The Department of Better Technology, a federal contractor that competes with CGI Federal, sheds some insight into why the Healthcare.gov contract might have failed so spectacularly.

    'That cancer is called “procurement” and it’s primarily a culture driven cancer one that tries to mitigate so much risk that it all but ensures it. It’s one that allowed for only a handful of companies like CGI Federal to not only build disasters like this, but to keep building more and more failures without any accountability to the ultimate client: us,' the company wrote in an op-ed posted on its site.

    On top of promoting mediocrity, the federal procurement system also weighs down site developers with 6,500 pages of registration and regulation for contractors.

    Those restriction ensure that 'very few new businesses can compete for contracts, and the ones that do end up becoming specialists in those regulatory burdens, not in doing the right thing,' the Department of Better Technology says.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...esnt-work.html
    Quote Originally Posted by tony bagadonuts View Post

    Look Corrigan, you've been a sideshow clown around here from the jump
    It's tough to take you seriously when you've made your bones acting the fool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's Clit View Post
    Which one is he?

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    Photoballer 4Dragons's Avatar
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    In the grand tradition of democrats creating a disaster and then offering to fix it, this was never meant to work. It has to fail in a glorious fashion and then have obama ride in with the single payer model to save the day. How fucking scripted, you'd have to be an obama voter to not see it coming.

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    http://washingtonexaminer.com/canadi...rticle/2537101


    Canadian officials fired IT firm behind troubled Obamacare website
    BY RICHARD POLLOCK | OCTOBER 10, 2013 AT 1:05 PM



    Canadian provincial health officials last year fired the parent company of CGI Federal, the prime contractor for the problem-plagued Obamacare health exchange websites, the Washington Examiner has learned.

    CGI Federal’s parent company, Montreal-based CGI Group, was officially terminated in September 2012 by an Ontario government health agency after the firm missed three years of deadlines and failed to deliver the province’s flagship online medical registry.

    The online registry was supposed to be up and running by June 2011.

    Officials at the U.S. government's Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services awarded six technology contracts worth $87 million to CGI Federal for Obamacare website work, according to the U.S. Government Accountability Office.

    Sign Up for the Watchdog newsletter!
    The CMS officials refused to say if federal officials knew of its parent company’s IT failure in Canada when awarding the six contracts.

    CGI Federal built Obamacare’s Healthcare.gov, which went live Oct. 1 but has since experienced multiple technical problems, including crashes, refusal to load and sign-on, or to provide accurate information.

    Obamacare requires all Americans to register for health care coverage no later than six months from Oct. 1. Officials in the White House and the Department of Health and Human Services, which manages Obamacare, declined to say how many people succeeded in registering through Healthcare.gov.

    CGI Federal also is the prime contractor for state health exchange websites in Colorado, Vermont, Hawaii and Massachusetts. Three of those states also reported significant website glitches.

    In Hawaii, health exchange officials formally apologized for the inconvenience in delays and said they did not know when the site would be available.

    Only Massachusetts, which has had a state health program in operation for seven years, reported no website problems.

    The IT glitches were so acute across the nation that HHS shut down the site for weekend repairs Oct. 5-6, but the problems have persisted.

    In Canada, eHealth, the Ontario provincial agency, scrapped its high-profile online medical registry for diabetes sufferers and treatment providers, and cancelled CGI Group’s $46.2 million contract, on Sept. 5, 2012. The company was 14 months behind schedule when it was given notice of termination by the Ontario government agency.

    In the meantime, a group of other Ontario IT companies successfully replicated the registry, rendering CGI’s project obsolete.

    Because the contract terms stipulated payment only upon delivery of a satisfactory final product, the province has refused to pay CGI.

    CGI has not publicly discussed the eHealth failure, but has taken legal action, including filing a defamation suit against eHealth and the Toronto Star newspaper.

    CGI has received bipartisan condemnation from Ontario government officials for its failure on the registry.

    “They did not meet the requirements of their contract which was faced with many layers of delays, which caused great angst among the health care providers who are trying to do their best,” Frances Gélinas, a member of Ontario's provincial parliament, told the Washington Examiner.

    “They basically said, ‘This is not working.’ CGI is not delivering what we need,” Gélinas said. Gélinas also serves as a health policy spokeswoman for the NDP, an opposition Canadian political party.

    A knowledgeable official who requested anonymity said the CGI-eHealth controversy mainly stemmed from CGI’s failure to deliver its product on schedule.

    “It basically boiled down to missed deadlines,” said the official. “CGI was contracted to build the diabetes registry in the province. They weren’t able to fulfill that commitment, and they weren’t able to meet guidelines to have a product up and running that physicians can use. It dragged on and on.”

    “It was becoming an issue for the government in the sense that it was a prominent initiative of the government. Delay was causing some consternation and frustration,” the official said.

    Nine thousand medical providers now use alternative online registries for Ontario’s estimated 40,000 diabetes patients. The province has certified 13 IT vendors, a number of which have sold and are maintaining the registries instead of CGI.

    At the time, the Ontario health minister, Deb Matthews, told Canadian news organizations she was “enormously disappointed” by the CGI failure.

    “They (CGI) were so late in delivering it, that our EMR (electronic medical records) providers here in the province expanded the scope and utility of their product and just rendered CGI’s technology irrelevant,” the source said.

    Gélinas agreed. “The diabetes registry was conceived in concept almost four years ago. It may have had utility, had they been able to meet their deadlines. But what happened was that they just didn’t. The project dragged on,” she said.

    CGI declined to comment on the eHealth controversy. Linda Odorisio, vice president for CGI’s global communications, said in an email that “discussions to resolve the issues between eHealth and CGI are ongoing. Both parties are bound by confidentiality agreements and we will not comment on the specifics of the matter while proceedings are underway.”

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    Platinum cmoney's Avatar
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    Props to Druff.

    This is the most concise/informative explanation on Obamacare I have ever read.

    It is amazing 600 mil could be spent on something like this, and it doesn't work. The contracts to do this work had to been given to cronies of politicians. There is no other explanation for this level of incompetence.

    It is shit like this that makes people sympathize with tea party members.
    :freelewfather

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    Platinum garrett's Avatar
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    Good analysis Druff.

    Hey don't worry if you dont want to opt-in you can just pay the gubmint ~$200 a year and your free.

    Except what happens if you cant afford Obamacare, and choose not to pay the $200 get out of jail free card?

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    Gold Ryback_feed_me_more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrett View Post
    Good analysis Druff.

    Hey don't worry if you dont want to opt-in you can just pay the gubmint ~$200 a year and your free.

    Except what happens if you cant afford Obamacare, and choose not to pay the $200 get out of jail free card?
    Uncle Sam will get you one way or the other wtf do you think the IRS has a hand in this. Its the one agency with the power to rape and rob you financially blind. If you dont pay they will take your money be it through garnishment or seizure ultimately. The IRS is a big hammer that loves to swat flys. Those that wont pay but could will likely lose part of their EIC but most EIC claimants are already on Medicaid or will be under the new expansion. (which is ultimately what Obama wants to do is turn Medicaid into the single payer system and just combine Medicaid and Medicare into one big gigantic health bureaucracy.

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    Platinum garrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryback_feed_me_more View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by garrett View Post
    Good analysis Druff.

    Hey don't worry if you dont want to opt-in you can just pay the gubmint ~$200 a year and your free.

    Except what happens if you cant afford Obamacare, and choose not to pay the $200 get out of jail free card?
    Uncle Sam will get you one way or the other wtf do you think the IRS has a hand in this. Its the one agency with the power to rape and rob you financially blind. If you dont pay they will take your money be it through garnishment or seizure ultimately. The IRS is a big hammer that loves to swat flys. Those that wont pay but could will likely lose part of their EIC but most EIC claimants are already on Medicaid or will be under the new expansion. (which is ultimately what Obama wants to do is turn Medicaid into the single payer system and just combine Medicaid and Medicare into one big gigantic health bureaucracy.

    So the I.R.S is the end-game?

    Pretty creative, yawn


    Like indentured servants....

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    Photoballer 4Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrett View Post
    Good analysis Druff.

    Hey don't worry if you dont want to opt-in you can just pay the gubmint ~$200 a year and your free.

    Except what happens if you cant afford Obamacare, and choose not to pay the $200 get out of jail free card?
    From what i've been hearing, nothing. It won't be enforced. The issue is that if you have a refund coming to you it will be insta-grabbed by the fed. The work around for it that i've heard is to make sure your deductions come in as close to even as you can make them so you don't get a big refund at the end of the year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Dragons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by garrett View Post
    Good analysis Druff.

    Hey don't worry if you dont want to opt-in you can just pay the gubmint ~$200 a year and your free.

    Except what happens if you cant afford Obamacare, and choose not to pay the $200 get out of jail free card?
    From what i've been hearing, nothing. It won't be enforced. The issue is that if you have a refund coming to you it will be insta-grabbed by the fed. The work around for it that i've heard is to make sure your deductions come in as close to even as you can make them so you don't get a big refund at the end of the year.
    Well fuck me. I have a relatively big refund coming and have elected not to pay for health insurance. =/

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    Platinum Rollo Tomasi's Avatar
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    EXCLUSIVE: Just 51,000 people completed Obamacare applications during the website's first week, out of tens of millions of Americans in 36 states

    By DAVID MARTOSKO, U.S. POLITICAL EDITOR

    PUBLISHED: 14:29 EST, 10 October 2013 | UPDATED: 11:50 EST, 11 October 2013

    Just 51,000 people completed Obamacare applications during the first week the Healthcare.gov website was online, according to two sources inside the Department of Health and Human Services who gave MailOnline an exclusive look at the earliest enrollment numbers.

    The career civil servants, who process data inside the agency, confirmed independently that just 6,200 Americans applied for health insurance through the problem-plagued website on October 1, the day it first opened to the public.

    Neither HHS nor the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services would comment on the record about the numbers. Enroll America, on Obama administration-related organization that aims to help Americans sign up, only replied to a request for information a day after this article was first published.

    'I don’t have any hard numbers beyond what HHS and the state-based exchanges have released,' said spokesman Justin Nisly, who insisted that Americans have been 'enthusiastic' and 'grateful' for Obamacare.

    The White House did not respond to emails seeking comment.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lications.html
    Quote Originally Posted by tony bagadonuts View Post

    Look Corrigan, you've been a sideshow clown around here from the jump
    It's tough to take you seriously when you've made your bones acting the fool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's Clit View Post
    Which one is he?

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    Diamond shortbuspoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryback_feed_me_more View Post

    Its the one agency with the power to rape and rob you financially blind. If you dont pay they will take your money be it through garnishment or seizure ultimately. The IRS is a big hammer that loves to swat flys.
    This is true beyond belief. I play in a 2/5 home game with a doctor who is in the middle of a back tax battle with the IRS. His shit is ongoing and they emptied some of his bank accounts to the tune of over $80k last month even though litigation is pending.

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    Name:  1240348_374127079387143_674764920_n.png
Views: 467
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    Platinum garrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Dragons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by garrett View Post
    Good analysis Druff.

    Hey don't worry if you dont want to opt-in you can just pay the gubmint ~$200 a year and your free.

    Except what happens if you cant afford Obamacare, and choose not to pay the $200 get out of jail free card?
    From what i've been hearing, nothing. It won't be enforced. The issue is that if you have a refund coming to you it will be insta-grabbed by the fed. The work around for it that i've heard is to make sure your deductions come in as close to even as you can make them so you don't get a big refund at the end of the year.

    So your still broke and insurance-less, so its not truly insurance for everyone.

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    Photoballer 4Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrett View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 4Dragons View Post

    From what i've been hearing, nothing. It won't be enforced. The issue is that if you have a refund coming to you it will be insta-grabbed by the fed. The work around for it that i've heard is to make sure your deductions come in as close to even as you can make them so you don't get a big refund at the end of the year.

    So your still broke and insurance-less, so its not truly insurance for everyone.
    And Medicaid and Medicare are STILL active and obamacare on top of that. Saving money left and right imo.

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