BetSafe/Ongame stole $6,000 from me

[BBBB]

I'm a professional limit holdem player and have been since 2000. I started playing on the Ongame network on Betfair in January of 2012. They switched over to the ipoker network, so I deposited $5,000 on Betsafe from my Moneybookers account to play on the Ongame network again after I heard they still had action there. I started playing on Friday, the 6th of September.

I first sat at a 100-200 limit holdem heads-up table with a player. I won the 1st hand and he buttoned me. I then sat at 100-200, 50-100 and 25-50 open tables. The player x_buddha42 sat with me at 100-200 limit holdem. I had played this player many times before on my old Betfair account, WoahBigWave. I was losing during this match and ended up making 2 more $5,000 deposits for a total of $15,000 during the match and ended up losing $9,497 in 122 hands when x_buddha42 quit.

I was out Saturday then tried to log in today (Sunday) and got the message that my account is currently inactive and to contact customer support for further assistance. I emailed support and was told my account was closed by their poker provider (Ongame?) for breaking their terms and conditions. After a few emails back and forth, they finally stated that my account was closed for chip dumping. The final email also stated they will be confiscating the remaining $5,900 in my account.

My play in the match was totally standard and there was definitely no chip dumping. I don’t know the player x_buddha42 at all except as an opponent I played alot on Betfair. Chip dumping doesn't even make sense since I deposited from Moneybookers and could have presumably just sent x_buddha42 the money on Moneybookers if I wanted to give him money. Either the site doesn’t understand poker and it’s swings at all and anytime someone wins or loses alot there (which is what happens at high stakes), it's "investigated" by someone completely incompetent or the site is just flat out stealing money.

You can also see on PTR that I have played x_buddha42 alot on my Betfair account, WoahBigWave. The amount is incorrect as it had me losing $30k to him in a 100-200 and 250-500 session where I was down 30 something to him and came back to get it all back plus the 2k he originally sat with less rake. 120 of the 122 hands from my Betsafe session also are on PTR under my name there (BigGamble888). My actual results agains't x_buddha420 including the $9,497 loss above is +$8,353 in 2,381 hands.

Druff knows me and posted in the NVG thread I created on 2+2 before they deleted it I guess for being in the wrong forum (It's in the less read Internet and High Stakes Limit forums now).


Cliffs:

1. I started playing on Betsafe to play on the Ongame network after Betfair left for ipoker
2. I lost $9,500 in a 122 hand 100-200 limit holdem session
3. Site closes my account and confiscates the $5,900 remaining in my account accusing me of chip dumping

[BeerAndPoker]

Have you been contacting them since? I would want them to show me proof of alleged chip dumping such trends in the hands played.

HU limit has a lot of dynamics that may look strange to some people but really isn't.

I also wonder if the person you played was honest because if they were ever chip dumping at all then some sites starting making assumptions they shouldn't that you were involved with that player. If this user rolled the site out of money and went on to lose it then sometimes sites jump to the conclusion that you were working with the user as well and since they won't get funds from that person back they just try to take yours in manners like this.

Keep contacting Betsafe and tell them you want them to show you proof because you know it's not true and are upset at even being accused of this.

They are supposed to make you feel that you are betting safe on their site but apparently that isn't the case.

[Dan Druff]

Yes, I know BBBB, and he has indeed been around in the limit hold 'em world forever, playing almost exclusively online. He has won a lot of money, and has never been known for cheating or chip dumping.

I fully believe this story.

Betsafe is unlikely to do anything for you, as they are probably looking for any flimsy reason to steal the money.

It is likely that x_buddha42 also had his money confiscated, though it's possible he didn't if he was playing on a more honest skin.

Do you know if the "security" action was taken by Ongame (the network) or Betsafe (the skin)?

FYI Ongame is very shady, and has been long before Black Friday. They were in fact shady even before the UIGEA! They've always taken the attitude of "What the skins do is their business", and do not intervene when skins cheat people. I haven't kept up on them in years, but that was the last I heard of their business practices.

Have you tried contacting Ongame itself?

[BBBB]

Looks like Betsafe saw my posts and they responded at 2+2 as follows:

Hi FuzzyWuzzy,

Firstly I would like to apologize for any inconveniences your above stated situation has caused, and also the below par replies you have been given so far.

To clarify Betsafe do not always look into these cases as we also work alongside and rely on our software provider for numerous anti-fraud, collusion, chipdumping tools and control methods.

In your particular case, it appears our software provider (Ongame) had taken action based on a few issues that related to your account that were highly suspicious. I will not provide the full information on here due to the sensitivity but Betsafe will email this to you separately shortly.

After I saw this thread, I spotted your frustration and wholly believed your case. I then raised to our software provider and they have admitted they have made a rare mistake and have subsequently unblocked your account, with your full balance available.

I would like to sincerely like to apologize for any inconveniences this has caused you and would like to highlight this is an extremely rare case and honest human error on behalf of our software provider. It is never Betsafe's nor Ongame's intention to ever withhold any amount of money from a player for our own gain, our integrity is absolutely paramount and we strive to ensure this is never compromised.

I can assure you this will not happen again and as a goodwill gesture we have credited you with a €100.

We wish you all the best at the virtual felt!

Best regards,

Betsafe Poker



Just got the email from them and my account has been re-opened.

[Dan Druff]

A rare happy ending.

Once again, the forums save players from being abused.

[Deal]

Put it all on Black and give the wheel a spin.

[Dan Druff]

Looks like a freeroll to me.

Steal the guy's money, and then play "good customer service rep" and give it back if it's going to cost your company enough bad PR.

Small chance they erroneously believed he was actually a chip dumper, but given their actions prior to his creation of forum threads, I doubt it.

[Steve-O]

FYI Ongame is very shady, and has been long before Black Friday. They were in fact shady even before the UIGEA! They've always taken the attitude of "What the skins do is their business", and do not intervene when skins cheat people. I haven't kept up on them in years, but that was the last I heard of their business practices.

OnGame was owned by bwin and was sold to Amaya Gaming last year. Amaya is involved in legal US poker sites in the US (I believe they will supply Bally Technologies with their poker client) so I don't think the network would be shady, but I know nothing about the individual skins.

Also, there was an article that came out after the sale showing that OnGame only had 31% of player deposits at the time of sale. http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-and-re...r-funds-26-06/