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Thread: Vladimir Geshkenbein finishes 62nd in ME and scams his backers

  1. #101
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    Its sad 95% of all poker players are scum bags or just one bad run at the table/life from being scum bags!

  2. #102
    Platinum ShadyJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyJ View Post

    I havent listened yet, but how could they be freerolling him? They invested money in him to make money not get their money back. I know theres no perfect solution, but theres only 1 person at fault and hes somehow going to profit while no one else does.
    I have been reading this thread for a while but after you statement i feel compelled to post.

    You must be completely out of your mind for thinking i am actually profiting from this situation. Apart from having irreversably destroyed my reputation I have also lost more money than any single staker in the process.

    I have so far paid out about 120k from the 124k that i cashed in the main event. Most of the backers have been fully paid out, a few are still left to receive their full funds asap.

    I absolutely agree that I made many mistakes at the beginning, I was putting too much trust in other people (who promised to send me funds that they owed me - which i was planning to use for the WSOP buyins - but never happened) and I was playing cash games which i should not have. At the end I had a decision to make.. i guess in hindsight it was the wrong decision and i should've just cancelled the whole thing and not played it at all. But then again the backers would've had to wait a considerable while longer until i could be able to pay them..

    I was never intending to defraud or scam anyone, everybody who knows me well can confirm this. I have issues with BRM but that does not make me a cheat. I am deeply saddened by the way i am beeing labeled here.. I guess i deserve some of it but I never was and am not a scammer..

    Regards,

    Vlad
    I'm going to assume this is the real scammer, which I'm sure it isnt.

    You must be completety out of your mind to think this situation has anything to do with a bankroll management problem.

    That would be when you play too high with your own funds, but when you play not agreed upon things with others peoples money that makes you a thief.

  3. #103
    Platinum ShadyJ's Avatar
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    So I listened to the Sheets segment finally.

    First it was a great segment, and hes clearly a stand up guy.

    I think theres some differences in the way Sheets looks at it. He doesnt buy pieces, which was the case here. He made a reference that if someone owed him money, and the only way he could get his money back was to let the guy play under someone else he would take that, but this case if different.

    Nothing was worked out before hand. The guy didnt go busto then ask the backers if he could look for another stake to try and get their money back. He told them the night before the main, so there was no agreement. If theres no agreement before hand then he absolutely has to pay them profit.

    If he came to them beforehand and they all agreed then fine, which is what Sheets was referring to.

    Then you have the freeroll issue. Sheets said it wasnt a freeroll because the guy still owes them the money, which might hold some weight if it were just 1 backer like Sheets is used to, but when people buy pieces you think they will all get their money back ever? They all have to follow 2+2 everyday until someday down the road they hope to get paid back. Lets be realistic here the guy was freerolling them. If he didnt play the Main they were out the money completely, which in a lot of ways goes against Mine and Druff's argument, but like Druff said I would rather have him not play the Main and never get paid back then let him profit and get paid back. In Sheets case he would have alot more invested as the only backer so I can understand his side as well.

    I will admit to overlooking 1 thing that Shetts had a good point on, and Im sure China has as well. The Backers cant get profit and him also owe if he doesnt cash. Then it is a reverse freeroll.

    Thats what makes this such a tough situation. He didn't get it all ironed out before the cards went in the air.

    I still whole heartedly agree with Druff, but it might be closer then I originally thought, so I'd like to apoligize to China for coming off to harsh.

  4. #104
    Gold Deal's Avatar
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    What is clear is that the guy is a scumbag not to be trusted. His only regret is that he has harmed his ability to borrow.

     
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      garrett: not relative to this thread but, polarize your range much?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasep View Post
    I have always tried to carry myself with a high level of integrity in the poker community and I take it very personally when someone calls that in to question.

  5. #105
    Platinum ShadyJ's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Steve-O;186108]
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    Well that is a whole other discussion. I don't see this holding up in court, and even if so, I think him canceling is enough.
    NOW I'M DONE (3rd time is the charm), I'm not looking at this thread again,

    This conversation had been exhausting, LOL
    Could you imagine being one of the backers?????
    I probably couldn't sleep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post

    Of course there is. Agreeing to something and having it in writing on the Internet is most certainly a contract, especially with his later admissions of what happened. 10x the money to make it worth the time and trouble and he loses 100% of the time in court.


    Unless he specifically said I have the option to end the stake at any time for any reason, no dice. If he doesn't play the ME he owes them a refund; if he plays the ME the backers can either A) hold him to his original agreement and forego a refund or B) accept the refund. They can't have it both ways, and he can't make the decision for them. There is a huge difference in saying: "I'm ending the stake because I'm broke." and "I'm ending the stake because I'm broke but I'm still playing in the ME." Hell, even "I'm cancelling the stake because I'm broke," and then three days later "good news, found a new backer," is acceptable to me. the way he did it was like spitting in their face, "I blew through all your money so I can't play the Main Event for you, instead I'm playing for this guy."

    I missed this, but this is dead on. The problem is he didnt do it before he played. If he did there wouldnt be an issue, but since he didnt like you said he cant just make up the terms.

  6. #106
    Platinum JimmyG_415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    Well that is a whole other discussion. I don't see this holding up in court, and even if so, I think him canceling is enough.
    NOW I'M DONE (3rd time is the charm), I'm not looking at this thread again,

    This conversation had been exhausting, LOL
    Could you imagine being one of the backers?????
    I probably couldn't sleep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post

    Of course there is. Agreeing to something and having it in writing on the Internet is most certainly a contract, especially with his later admissions of what happened. 10x the money to make it worth the time and trouble and he loses 100% of the time in court.
    because I don't think if he told them before the event he is out, any court would make him pay. And if they did, so what at least he tried to get out.
    one party can't cancel a contract. It has to be mutual. "JimmyG415 I know you are five years into paying your mortgage but we found someone else who will pay more. Get out." "Sorry Toyota, I changed my mind about this car, you can have it back."

    Unless he specifically said I have the option to end the stake at any time for any reason, no dice. If he doesn't play the ME he owes them a refund; if he plays the ME the backers can either A) hold him to his original agreement and forego a refund or B) accept the refund. They can't have it both ways, and he can't make the decision for them. There is a huge difference in saying: "I'm ending the stake because I'm broke." and "I'm ending the stake because I'm broke but I'm still playing in the ME." Hell, even "I'm cancelling the stake because I'm broke," and then three days later "good news, found a new backer," is acceptable to me. the way he did it was like spitting in their face, "I blew through all your money so I can't play the Main Event for you, instead I'm playing for this guy."

    So you are telling me there are actual cases, gambling related, where the investor (who got screwed by the gambler) got his money back?

    I'm just having a hard time thinking a poker player's forum post begging for stakes holds the same water as a deed of trust, which needs witness's and/or has to be notarized.

  7. #107
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    Well that is a whole other discussion. I don't see this holding up in court, and even if so, I think him canceling is enough.
    NOW I'M DONE (3rd time is the charm), I'm not looking at this thread again,

    This conversation had been exhausting, LOL
    Could you imagine being one of the backers?????
    I probably couldn't sleep.



    because I don't think if he told them before the event he is out, any court would make him pay. And if they did, so what at least he tried to get out.
    one party can't cancel a contract. It has to be mutual. "JimmyG415 I know you are five years into paying your mortgage but we found someone else who will pay more. Get out." "Sorry Toyota, I changed my mind about this car, you can have it back."

    Unless he specifically said I have the option to end the stake at any time for any reason, no dice. If he doesn't play the ME he owes them a refund; if he plays the ME the backers can either A) hold him to his original agreement and forego a refund or B) accept the refund. They can't have it both ways, and he can't make the decision for them. There is a huge difference in saying: "I'm ending the stake because I'm broke." and "I'm ending the stake because I'm broke but I'm still playing in the ME." Hell, even "I'm cancelling the stake because I'm broke," and then three days later "good news, found a new backer," is acceptable to me. the way he did it was like spitting in their face, "I blew through all your money so I can't play the Main Event for you, instead I'm playing for this guy."

    So you are telling me there are actual cases, gambling related, where the investor (who got screwed by the gambler) got his money back?

    I'm just having a hard time thinking a poker player's forum post begging for stakes holds the same water as a deed of trust, which needs witness's and/or has to be notarized.
    Jamie Gold would be the most obvious example. Or the civil suit against Tobey Maguire et al. As long as you're not breaking the law they are responsible if you can prove it.

    Verbal contracts can be binding if you can prove them, an Internet post (where the identity can be confirmed) is as good as any non-notarized agreement.
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  8. #108
    Platinum JimmyG_415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    one party can't cancel a contract. It has to be mutual. "JimmyG415 I know you are five years into paying your mortgage but we found someone else who will pay more. Get out." "Sorry Toyota, I changed my mind about this car, you can have it back."

    Unless he specifically said I have the option to end the stake at any time for any reason, no dice. If he doesn't play the ME he owes them a refund; if he plays the ME the backers can either A) hold him to his original agreement and forego a refund or B) accept the refund. They can't have it both ways, and he can't make the decision for them. There is a huge difference in saying: "I'm ending the stake because I'm broke." and "I'm ending the stake because I'm broke but I'm still playing in the ME." Hell, even "I'm cancelling the stake because I'm broke," and then three days later "good news, found a new backer," is acceptable to me. the way he did it was like spitting in their face, "I blew through all your money so I can't play the Main Event for you, instead I'm playing for this guy."

    So you are telling me there are actual cases, gambling related, where the investor (who got screwed by the gambler) got his money back?

    I'm just having a hard time thinking a poker player's forum post begging for stakes holds the same water as a deed of trust, which needs witness's and/or has to be notarized.
    Jamie Gold would be the most obvious example. Or the civil suit against Tobey Maguire et al. As long as you're not breaking the law they are responsible if you can prove it.

    Verbal contracts can be binding if you can prove them, an Internet post (where the identity can be confirmed) is as good as any non-notarized agreement.
    Jaime tried screwing that guy out of his winning, and I'll admit that is gambling related, that is no way the same thing.
    And I still would have a hard time thinking these guys could take him to court or why didn't they?

    Maybe there is a way it can possibly end up in court, the same way a bat might fly out of my ass, but we all know it won't. (Or Chino would live in court and not at the poker table.)

    My point is this, the same point I've been making.

    # 1 I don't care what the law says,
    # 2 I don't care what agreement the backers had, or how the forum post reads exactly
    # 3 AND I'm certainly not saying this is morally right,
    But I am saying this, If he wants out, he is out, and the backers have no say, UNLESS they want to get physical.

    Lets get away from what he should have happened & tell me exactly how you (if you were one of this backers), would have stopped him from entering the ME?
    I'm saying you couldn't. If there was a way to stop this, Chino wouldn't be in every single tournament he can get in.

  9. #109
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post


    So you are telling me there are actual cases, gambling related, where the investor (who got screwed by the gambler) got his money back?

    I'm just having a hard time thinking a poker player's forum post begging for stakes holds the same water as a deed of trust, which needs witness's and/or has to be notarized.
    Jamie Gold would be the most obvious example. Or the civil suit against Tobey Maguire et al. As long as you're not breaking the law they are responsible if you can prove it.

    Verbal contracts can be binding if you can prove them, an Internet post (where the identity can be confirmed) is as good as any non-notarized agreement.
    Jaime tried screwing that guy out of his winning, and I'll admit that is gambling related, that is no way the same thing.
    And I still would have a hard time thinking these guys could take him to court or why didn't they?

    Maybe there is a way it can possibly end up in court, the same way a bat might fly out of my ass, but we all know it won't. (Or Chino would live in court and not at the poker table.)

    My point is this, the same point I've been making.

    # 1 I don't care what the law says,
    # 2 I don't care what agreement the backers had, or how the forum post reads exactly
    # 3 AND I'm certainly not saying this is morally right,
    But I am saying this, If he wants out, he is out, and the backers have no say, UNLESS they want to get physical.

    Lets get away from what he should have happened & tell me exactly how you (if you were one of this backers), would have stopped him from entering the ME?
    I'm saying you couldn't. If there was a way to stop this, Chino wouldn't be in every single tournament he can get in.
    You're making the same mistake Chinamaniac has, you are confusing practical with legal. The reason Chino doesn't live in court is two-fold:

    #1 -- most of the scamming is done for amounts that don't make litigation practical from a money standpoint
    #2 -- you can't get water from a stone and there is no debtors prison, so the outcome is basically unenforceable

    I'm not saying they SHOULD do this, I'm simply stating that it is within their rights to do so, and never stop pestering the guy about the money he owes them. If he won millions it would be a slam dunk court case, but since we are dealing with thousands of dollars it's not worth going to court as they can't do anything. If he won millions they could put a lien on his bank accounts and such t get the money.

    From a practical standpoint nobody is disagreeing with you, but you guys are dead wrong in thinking that their only recourse is "Gamblers Justice". If Mason Malmuth had a piece of this guy and he pulled this shit he might sue him to simply prove a point (ask Dutch Boyd). Again, it's not about what the practical solution is; the point is you can pursue this as a legal contract if you really wanted to.
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  10. #110
    Platinum garrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    Jamie Gold would be the most obvious example. Or the civil suit against Tobey Maguire et al. As long as you're not breaking the law they are responsible if you can prove it.

    Verbal contracts can be binding if you can prove them, an Internet post (where the identity can be confirmed) is as good as any non-notarized agreement.
    Jaime tried screwing that guy out of his winning, and I'll admit that is gambling related, that is no way the same thing.
    And I still would have a hard time thinking these guys could take him to court or why didn't they?

    Maybe there is a way it can possibly end up in court, the same way a bat might fly out of my ass, but we all know it won't. (Or Chino would live in court and not at the poker table.)

    My point is this, the same point I've been making.

    # 1 I don't care what the law says,
    # 2 I don't care what agreement the backers had, or how the forum post reads exactly
    # 3 AND I'm certainly not saying this is morally right,
    But I am saying this, If he wants out, he is out, and the backers have no say, UNLESS they want to get physical.

    Lets get away from what he should have happened & tell me exactly how you (if you were one of this backers), would have stopped him from entering the ME?
    I'm saying you couldn't. If there was a way to stop this, Chino wouldn't be in every single tournament he can get in.
    You're making the same mistake Chinamaniac has, you are confusing practical with legal. The reason Chino doesn't live in court is two-fold:

    #1 -- most of the scamming is done for amounts that don't make litigation practical from a money standpoint
    #2 -- you can't get water from a stone and there is no debtors prison, so the outcome is basically unenforceable

    I'm not saying they SHOULD do this, I'm simply stating that it is within their rights to do so, and never stop pestering the guy about the money he owes them. If he won millions it would be a slam dunk court case, but since we are dealing with thousands of dollars it's not worth going to court as they can't do anything. If he won millions they could put a lien on his bank accounts and such t get the money.

    From a practical standpoint nobody is disagreeing with you, but you guys are dead wrong in thinking that their only recourse is "Gamblers Justice". If Mason Malmuth had a piece of this guy and he pulled this shit he might sue him to simply prove a point (ask Dutch Boyd). Again, it's not about what the practical solution is; the point is you can pursue this as a legal contract if you really wanted to.
    Very, very wrong here sir.

    You can get liens on them so that in the case they ever do bink, win the lottery, collect an inheritance, end up actually owning anything etc, you get what you are owed, at some point. To play this down like you did when these are often massive amounts of money to normal/poor people like me, is naive and a tad bit ignorant.

  11. #111
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrett View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post

    Jaime tried screwing that guy out of his winning, and I'll admit that is gambling related, that is no way the same thing.
    And I still would have a hard time thinking these guys could take him to court or why didn't they?

    Maybe there is a way it can possibly end up in court, the same way a bat might fly out of my ass, but we all know it won't. (Or Chino would live in court and not at the poker table.)

    My point is this, the same point I've been making.

    # 1 I don't care what the law says,
    # 2 I don't care what agreement the backers had, or how the forum post reads exactly
    # 3 AND I'm certainly not saying this is morally right,
    But I am saying this, If he wants out, he is out, and the backers have no say, UNLESS they want to get physical.

    Lets get away from what he should have happened & tell me exactly how you (if you were one of this backers), would have stopped him from entering the ME?
    I'm saying you couldn't. If there was a way to stop this, Chino wouldn't be in every single tournament he can get in.
    You're making the same mistake Chinamaniac has, you are confusing practical with legal. The reason Chino doesn't live in court is two-fold:

    #1 -- most of the scamming is done for amounts that don't make litigation practical from a money standpoint
    #2 -- you can't get water from a stone and there is no debtors prison, so the outcome is basically unenforceable

    I'm not saying they SHOULD do this, I'm simply stating that it is within their rights to do so, and never stop pestering the guy about the money he owes them. If he won millions it would be a slam dunk court case, but since we are dealing with thousands of dollars it's not worth going to court as they can't do anything. If he won millions they could put a lien on his bank accounts and such t get the money.

    From a practical standpoint nobody is disagreeing with you, but you guys are dead wrong in thinking that their only recourse is "Gamblers Justice". If Mason Malmuth had a piece of this guy and he pulled this shit he might sue him to simply prove a point (ask Dutch Boyd). Again, it's not about what the practical solution is; the point is you can pursue this as a legal contract if you really wanted to.
    Very, very wrong here sir.

    You can get liens on them so that in the case they ever do bink, win the lottery, collect an inheritance, end up actually owning anything etc, you get what you are owed, at some point. To play this down like you did when these are often massive amounts of money to normal/poor people like me, is naive and a tad bit ignorant.
    I'm pretty sure Lien isn't even really the right word if we are talking about future winnings. A lien is on current assets. If you won a settlement and Chino put future winnings into a new bank account you would have to file a lien (not sure if this is the right word) against the bank account.

    If you sued Chino and won the judge might put liens on his current assets, but to get future assets you would have to 1)know about them and where they were, and 2) file new court motions... I believe anyway
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  12. #112
    Platinum JimmyG_415's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Steve-O;187039]
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post

    Maybe there is a way it can possibly end up in court, the same way a bat might fly out of my ass, but we all know it won't. (Or Chino would live in court and not at the poker table.)

    My point is this, the same point I've been making.

    # 1 I don't care what the law says,
    # 2 I don't care what agreement the backers had, or how the forum post reads exactly
    # 3 AND I'm certainly not saying this is morally right,
    But I am saying this, If he wants out, he is out, and the backers have no say, UNLESS they want to get physical.

    Lets get away from what he should have happened & tell me exactly how you (if you were one of this backers), would have stopped him from entering the ME?
    I'm saying you couldn't. If there was a way to stop this, Chino wouldn't be in every single tournament he can get in.

    You're making the same mistake Chinamaniac has, you are confusing practical with legal.
    The reason Chino doesn't live in court is two-fold:

    #1 -- most of the scamming is done for amounts that don't make litigation practical from a money standpoint
    #2 -- you can't get water from a stone and there is no debtors prison, so the outcome is basically unenforceable

    I'm not saying they SHOULD do this, I'm simply stating that it is within their rights to do so, and never stop pestering the guy about the money he owes them. If he won millions it would be a slam dunk court case, but since we are dealing with thousands of dollars it's not worth going to court as they can't do anything. If he won millions they could put a lien on his bank accounts and such t get the money.

    From a practical standpoint nobody is disagreeing with you, but you guys are dead wrong in thinking that their only recourse is "Gamblers Justice". If Mason Malmuth had a piece of this guy and he pulled this shit he might sue him to simply prove a point (ask Dutch Boyd). Again, it's not about what the practical solution is; the point is you can pursue this as a legal contract if you really wanted to.

    YEAH, BUT SEE, I ONLY WAS LOOKING AT THIS FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT. And that is the only point of view I care about, also.

    I don't see how you can call that a mistake in fact, I'd say the mistake is confusing possibilities w/ what is practical.

    China and I were only speaking on what was actually happening, and what was likely happen, in other words the truth.



    And I was not promoting gambler's justice, just saying that is physically stopping him is the only option. I wouldn't do it.

  13. #113
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=JimmyG_415;187395]
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    You're making the same mistake Chinamaniac has, you are confusing practical with legal.[/B] The reason Chino doesn't live in court is two-fold:

    #1 -- most of the scamming is done for amounts that don't make litigation practical from a money standpoint
    #2 -- you can't get water from a stone and there is no debtors prison, so the outcome is basically unenforceable

    I'm not saying they SHOULD do this, I'm simply stating that it is within their rights to do so, and never stop pestering the guy about the money he owes them. If he won millions it would be a slam dunk court case, but since we are dealing with thousands of dollars it's not worth going to court as they can't do anything. If he won millions they could put a lien on his bank accounts and such t get the money.

    From a practical standpoint nobody is disagreeing with you, but you guys are dead wrong in thinking that their only recourse is "Gamblers Justice". If Mason Malmuth had a piece of this guy and he pulled this shit he might sue him to simply prove a point (ask Dutch Boyd). Again, it's not about what the practical solution is; the point is you can pursue this as a legal contract if you really wanted to.

    YEAH, BUT SEE, I ONLY WAS LOOKING AT THIS FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT. And that is the only point of view I care about, also.

    I don't see how you can call that a mistake in fact, I'd say the mistake is confusing possibilities w/ what is practical.

    China and I were only speaking on what was actually happening, and what was likely happen, in other words the truth.



    And I was not promoting gambler's justice, just saying that is physically stopping him is the only option. I wouldn't do it.
    That's fine but you've been arguing with someone who agrees with you. I've just been extrapolating the scenarios out to cover the different possibilities. If you don't want to consider them that's your business, but calling them "wrong" is actually, well, wrong. Beyne CANNOT cancel the stake without his backers agreeing, but the catch-22 is that they can't really stop him either, which tells me a major flaw in poker staking has just been brought to light
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  14. #114
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    I have no doubt greedy people like the person that staked him in the ME will continue to come along and allow him to get the better end of the deal, either being ignorant, greedy or just naive, believing he will not outsmart them!

    I too enjoyed the sheets interview my only problems is if people scammed him he should have always outted them, I think that would have also served to protect him from scammers.. as if they knew he would out them and he's obviously so well respected that would have to decrease the chances of them being shifty and scamming!

    I can also understand sheets is a family man and also want to protect he's deals and clients from backing privacy, but how much should you respect the privacy of a shady scumbag!

  15. #115
    Platinum ShadyJ's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=JimmyG_415;187395]
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    You're making the same mistake Chinamaniac has, you are confusing practical with legal.[/B] The reason Chino doesn't live in court is two-fold:

    #1 -- most of the scamming is done for amounts that don't make litigation practical from a money standpoint
    #2 -- you can't get water from a stone and there is no debtors prison, so the outcome is basically unenforceable

    I'm not saying they SHOULD do this, I'm simply stating that it is within their rights to do so, and never stop pestering the guy about the money he owes them. If he won millions it would be a slam dunk court case, but since we are dealing with thousands of dollars it's not worth going to court as they can't do anything. If he won millions they could put a lien on his bank accounts and such t get the money.

    From a practical standpoint nobody is disagreeing with you, but you guys are dead wrong in thinking that their only recourse is "Gamblers Justice". If Mason Malmuth had a piece of this guy and he pulled this shit he might sue him to simply prove a point (ask Dutch Boyd). Again, it's not about what the practical solution is; the point is you can pursue this as a legal contract if you really wanted to.

    YEAH, BUT SEE, I ONLY WAS LOOKING AT THIS FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT. And that is the only point of view I care about, also.

    I don't see how you can call that a mistake in fact, I'd say the mistake is confusing possibilities w/ what is practical.

    China and I were only speaking on what was actually happening, and what was likely happen, in other words the truth.



    And I was not promoting gambler's justice, just saying that is physically stopping him is the only option. I wouldn't do it.
    Im pretty sure what I heard China say was his opinion that the guy shouldnt owe any profits. The whole moral of the thread is about what should happen not what can actually happen or what will actually happen. I disagreed with Chinas point of view that the guy shouldnt have to pay them any of his profits, which to me is still insane.

  16. #116
    Platinum JimmyG_415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyJ View Post

    Im pretty sure what I heard China say was his opinion that the guy shouldnt owe any profits. The whole moral of the thread is about what should happen not what can actually happen or what will actually happen. I disagreed with Chinas point of view that the guy shouldnt have to pay them any of his profits, which to me is still insane.
    What?
    I don't get why you guys would waste your time on that,

    To me this thread was about reality and what could the backers realistically do to stop this, which is nothing.

    That has been my main point, then the other is to figure out EXACTLY how much he owes.
    I liked Sheet's "They can't ask for the refund, AND part of the prize pool" to figure out the exact amount owed, they get the refund.

    FTR
    No way do I think, and no way did I ever say, this was a morally right decision on his part.

    So if that is what this thread is about YOU ARE RIGHT HE SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE THIS.

  17. #117
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyG_415 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyJ View Post

    Im pretty sure what I heard China say was his opinion that the guy shouldnt owe any profits. The whole moral of the thread is about what should happen not what can actually happen or what will actually happen. I disagreed with Chinas point of view that the guy shouldnt have to pay them any of his profits, which to me is still insane.
    What?
    I don't get why you guys would waste your time on that,

    To me this thread was about reality and what could the backers realistically do to stop this, which is nothing.

    That has been my main point, then the other is to figure out EXACTLY how much he owes.
    I liked Sheet's "They can't ask for the refund, AND part of the prize pool" to figure out the exact amount owed, they get the refund.

    FTR
    No way do I think, and no way did I ever say, this was a morally right decision on his part.

    So if that is what this thread is about YOU ARE RIGHT HE SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE THIS.
    The reason I've played it out this far is to see if there are measures that could be adopted, and/or what can be done in the future to guard against this. Of course, I also like a theoretical discussion as much as the next person
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  18. #118
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    Ahmad Pourhamid, Marbella Spain
    Avoid the Online Scammer and Cheater People
    http://ahmadpourhamid.wordpress.com/...mad-pourhamid/

    Bad habits for company owner
    Ahmad Pourhamid is an investor in international companies. But this is probably his best quality, as in general, he is an awful, unpleasant, even sour man. Bad habits are those who best describe this powerful investor of World Industrial Consulting Services & Trades Company. Usually, when you have anything to do with an in investor of a company, you feel honored to meet that man, you feel as if you could learn something from him. But this is not the case of Ahmad Pourhamid, with whom a meeting can turn up to be the worst of your life, even if not exactly at that moment, but after that most likely, because he has many bad habits that describe him in the day to day life, as well as in his financial activities. He is a highly unpleasant person and you will feel disappointed by his way he behaves in his affairs. He considers he has to do anything in his favor, so he would not think about anyone on his way to achieve his goals. He is a cheater in so many ways you could neither imagine.



    Director Overview

    Ahmad Pourhamid holds 1 current appointment, has resigned from 0 companies and held appointments at 0 dissolved companies. Ahmad began their first appointment at the age of 51 and their longest current appointment spans 3 years and 7 months at TRAVEL WORLD ONLINE LIMITED.

    The combined cash at bank value for all of Ahmad's current businesses is £0, with a combined assets value of £29 and liabilities of £48,881. Roles associated with Ahmad Pourhamid within the recorded businesses include: Director
    Registered Details

    Short name Ahmad Pourhamid
    Year of Birth: 1958
    Director ID: 914973949
    Registered Address

    C/ Ramon Gomez De La Serna No 22 Ed King 507
    Marbella
    29600
    Spain
    Directorships

    1 current appointments
    0 resigned appointments
    0 dissolved appointments

  19. #119
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Apparently people e-mailed PKR about the situation, and they don't give a shit.

    He's still a pro there.

    Awful.

    People should boycott the site until they drop him.

    http://www.pkr.com/en/community/pkr-pro/



    I am Like the Old radio Fella,Paul Harvey,Shoeshine wanna Know the rest a da story baby!.... wow 7 years.... I recall this guy and kids trying to get to his table at last 10 tables...wowza.. 7 years...Tempus Fugit
    Time flies..........................................

    Furthermore...Chino Top10 da big gest pos in Poker til this day. 7 yrs later..YO chino I sez so.... S.s.b....no...never got me a dime..but his behavior at tables and beating of fish out of hundos reg for massages would be handled diff in underground club..word.
    .any one gives a KNOWN deg like OP or any of em all a way back down to old TJ Cloutier is a idiot and deserve to be beat.
    Last edited by shoeshine box; 12-17-2020 at 09:42 PM. Reason: further more I say.....sheeeeeeeeetttt

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoeshine box View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Apparently people e-mailed PKR about the situation, and they don't give a shit.

    He's still a pro there.

    Awful.

    People should boycott the site until they drop him.

    http://www.pkr.com/en/community/pkr-pro/



    I am Like the Old radio Fella,Paul Harvey, Shoeshine wanna Know the rest a da story baby!.... wow 7 years.... I recall this guy and kids trying to get to his table at last 10 tables...wowza.. 7 years...Tempus Fugit
    Time flies..........................................
    More like

     
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    When faced with a difficult decision, ask yourself "What would Micon do?", then do the opposite.

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