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Thread: The Hand That May Have Knocked Me Out of Tournament Poker

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    The Hand That May Have Knocked Me Out of Tournament Poker

    It's been about 100 minutes since I busted from the 2013 WSOP Main Event, roughly 175 players short of the money. It's familiar territory for me. In 2011, 2012, and now 2013, I outlasted over 80% of the field, only to fail to cash. This time it was more like 88%.

    I couldn't walk away when it was over. And when I say that I couldn't, I don't mean that I didn't want to, or that I wasn't accepting that I had lost. I mean that I physically couldn't. For the first time in my almost 13 years of playing poker, I actually went into shock after losing. I had to sit down for almost 20 minutes before feeling physically able to do a 7-minute walk back to my room.

    But why?

    I was never in a dominant position in this event. I never held more than 136,000 chips from a starting stack of 30,000. I was never twice of average at any point of the tournament. I watched players with several times my top chip count bust before the money, and they definitely had a lot bigger letdown than I did. So what was my problem this time?

    It's not like I haven't faced disappointment in tournament poker in the past.

    I had the brief final table chip lead in both 2005 ($1500 Limit Holdem) and 2013 ($5000 Limit Holdem), but I finished 3rd and 5th, respectively. Was I disappointed? Hell, yeah. But did I go into shock? Did I feel physically ill afterwards? Not at all.

    I made it down to the final 88 of the Main Event in 2010, losing a QQ/AK race that would have put me slighty above-average in chips had I won. This was after making the correct read preflop that my 4-betting opponent definitely didn't have AA or KK. The top prize was $9 million, and Pokerstars guaranteed me $1 million more if I won. How did I feel when I busted? I said, "I took this one as far as I could have with the cards I was dealt", and was surprisingly not even a little bit depressed.

    I was the stone bubble boy at the $5500 buyin St. Kitts event in 2006, after finishing 4th in it the year before. I remember being angry at myself for getting it in with tens against QQ when I could have easily folded to the money and had plenty of chips left, but I got over it quickly.

    In 2012, I lost four straight hands to bubble the $5k Limit event at the WSOP in 19th. I felt awful, but again, there were no physical effects on me -- only mental.

    In 2007, I was the "TV bubble boy", finishing 10th in the 2007 $1k NL With Rebuys event at the WSOP. Full Tilt was going to give me $15,000 to wear their patch, guaranteed, plus more if I stayed on TV longer. I remember throwing my cap on the floor in disgust when that ace hit the river to bust me, but after about 15 minutes, I was fine.

    In 2006, an almost-crippled Rep Porter put a runner-runner beat on me heads up at the $1500 Limit Shootout Day 2. I would have almost certainly moved on to the 6-handed final table if I won that hand. Instead, he came back to beat me. Again, very disappointing, but my temporary pain was mental and not physical.

    Back to the present.

    At the 2013 Main Event, I was a great folder. Most people would never brag about being good at folding, as a lot of folding doesn't tend to win you tournaments, but I gave myself more lives in this thing than Felix the Cat. On Day 1, I laid down both QQ (definitely correct) and KK (probably correct) preflop, losing very few chips both times. I made a number of other good laydowns throughout the event that both saved me a lot of chips and prevented outright busting. Earlier in the day, I laid down AK to a 4-bet, and my flustered opponent told of his black aces, and how stupid he felt for reraising. Even in a desperate spot on Day 3, with just 45k in chips and blinds of 1200-2400-400 (M=6), I almost open-shoved a suited ace, only to feel eyeballs on me, realizing my opponents had already looked at their cards and were waiting for my chips. Instead, I mucked it, and three opponents got involved in a big pot. I would have busted there. Instead, I had new life, and a lucky double up shortly thereafter put me back in contention with around 110k. There were countless situations where I saved precious chips in what legitimately turned out to have been very bad spots for me.

    About 20 minutes before I busted, an opponent with a big stack inexplicably laid down his AQ preflop in a 3-way hand where I 3-bet with JJ, and the flop came QQ9. The remaining opponent folded the flop. That took me to 136k -- my high of the tournament (but still well below average). While these fortunate chips were the result of my opponent's actions, and not my own, I felt like it was my destiny to cash in this one, or perhaps much more. My very deep-stacked opponent even remarked, "I don't know why I folded the AQ. I just zoned out."

    The board showed 828 players remaining, but it could have been even fewer. 648 cashed a minimum of $19,100 or so. Everyone was dropping surprisingly quickly. A few more hours, and I would not only have finally cashed after two consecutive close calls in 2011-12, but done so with very few contested pots won, and a lot of bullets dodged. I was proud of this one. I had taken a 3-day crap sandwich of cards and made the absolute most of them. If ever I had earned a min-cash, it was this time. I lost 19k on a subsequent hand, where again, I believed I made the right river laydown.

    A deep-stacked opponent raised to 6k at the 1500-3000-500 level. Another guy called, who apppeard to be very close to me in chips. I looked down to see AcKh. I didn't like it. There was no easy play here. If I raise to something like 20k or 25k (with the intention of folding to a re-raise), what do I do if the AK misses the flop? A convincing continuation bet would almost cripple me. I was afraid that the original raiser would call a raise of 20 or 25k, as he could easily afford it. I considered flatting. But that just seemed too weak at this point with a shortish stack and AK. The deep stacked guy opened a lot pre (I saw him open with 6h8h from early position), and the guy in the middle probably didn't have much. But what if one of them has aces? That would be a freaking disaster of epic proportions. Even kings would be bad news. And even if I get called off with something like TT-QQ, do I really want all of this hard work to come down to an unnecessary race at this point? I almost put out 25k for a raise. Then something took hold of me. "Just put it in... they probably don't have aces. You need chips anyway. Don't force yourself to play this one postflop if you miss. Make them pay now, and get the 21k in the pot if they won't."

    "I'm all in", I said, but feeling at the same time like I was making a mistake.

    The early raiser -- the one who worried me more -- folded. He definitely would have called off with tens or better, so I thought I had it won. Then came the moment I'll remember forever.

    "I call," said the other guy.

    I knew what I'd be seeing.

    Two red aces flipped over.

    The low flop gave me some fleeting hope, with two clubs, but a heart on the turn left me drawing dead.

    Then came the torturous exercise of determining whether or not I had actually busted. It was very close.

    Both stacks were counted out. I appeared to be just 3k short. I grabbed my stuff to leave, but someone pointed out, "Wait, those stacks are too high!"

    Indeed, I had him covered. By 1500.

    This was just cruel extra punishment. I know they say you have a chance if you have a chip and a chair, but here I had 1500 in a spot where even 100 times that was considered somewhat short stacked. The odds against me here were beyond astronomical. It was just more pain, as I got it in the next hand with 57o, flopped a gutshot, and finished with 7-high.

    Before I left, I quietly asked the guy I lost the 19k the hand before what he had that time. He honestly told me he rivered trips, and in fact claimed he played it badly by letting it get to the river in the first place. Another good laydown on my part, all for naught.

    I was ready to do the walk of shame back to my stately room within the Rio.

    But I couldn't. Something was wrong.

    I took a few steps, and felt dizzy. I felt nauseous. I felt completely drained of energy. I had to sit down. I stumbled over to an empty table, and sat there. About 2 minutes later, I was told I had to leave, as the area had been "secured" (whatever that meant).

    I forced myself to stumble out into the hallway. I felt like I could barely take another step, when I saw a chair at a closed vendor booth. I sat down, and wondered what the hell was wrong with me.

    Sure, this was disappointing.

    Yes, I was a hair away from just raising the AK instead of shoving with it, probably leaving myself with 90k after getting re-raised. Yes, I put 27 long hours of play, dating back to Sunday, and dodged all kinds of bad situations to blow it just before the money. Yes, this was my third consecutive deep non-cash in the Main Event.

    But I've had worse moments than this! Much worse! How could this be affecting me so severely?

    As I sat at that table, I saw my vision start to blur. I started to feel like I couldn't breathe well. I've never fainted before, but I felt close to doing so. I tried to reason with myself. "Even if you squeaked into a min-cash, you probably weren't going much further," I rationalized. "It's only 19k. You have 19k many, many times over." Didn't work. Symptoms only got worse.

    "If you raised and folded, you would have had to win at least one more substantial hand to have made the money," I said in my head. Again, it didn't help.

    I tried to picture my son's face, my girlfriend, the rest of my family, the fact that I was one of the few poker pros to hold onto my "boom" winnings. I tried to tell myself that this was unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

    It still didn't do a bit of good. I was legitimately in shock -- something that had only happened twice in my life before, and both times were after substantial skiing injuries.

    Bad thoughts ran through my head. I remembered that men in their 40s can get heart attacks, even without genetic defects. And this definitely was a super-high level of stress. "What if I can't shake this, and it brings on heart attack?", I thought. "Imagine if that's what happens, all over a failure to cash in the Main Event." I wanted to call someone over for help, but I was still somewhat in denial that I needed it.

    Then I felt the sweat. The top of my head got really sweaty all of a sudden, and it started to feel like that was the indiciation that the shock was over. I let a few minutes pass, and eventually I felt strong enough to stand. The disappointment and frustration were still there, but I felt physically normal. I noticed that 20 minutes had passed since I busted.

    I walked back to my room, feeling like I just had a wake-up call. I can't ever let this happen again. I'm getting too old to heap this kind of stress upon myself, especially given that I have a son as young as 2.

    And when I say "can't let this happen", I don't mean overplaying AK or making any other mistake after 27 hours of good poker. I mean letting tournament poker affect me emotionally the way it does.

    Over the years, I have started to take losing in tournaments more personally -- perhaps because I can't simply go back to the cash games and easily win it back. The $5k Limit bubble last year brought on a feeling I really hated. My misplay of aces in the final hand of the 2012 Main brought on nightmares that lasted for months. And now this AK vs. AA hand literally sent me into shock.

    I have become too much of a perfectionist. I pat myself on the back for good plays, but then absolutely hate myself when I make a mistake that costs me a better finish. And if I made good plays before that, it frustrates me even more, as I feel like I wasted them.

    I'm starting to think I'm no longer cut out for tournament poker.

    That AA hand may not have just knocked me out of the 2013 WSOP Main Event. It may have knocked me out of tournament poker for good.

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    I know its going to take a long time for you to fully process the day and the Main Event. I'll point you weren't feeling well last night which may have an effect on you, and keep in mind you final tabled the Limit Holdem event. Rather than giving up tournament poker entirely, it is probably a good idea to take a break from NL Holdem tournaments.

    As possibly a bad idea, consider learning the other games in HORSE and see how that goes, you are definitely smart, talented and have the ability to win.
    When faced with a difficult decision, ask yourself "What would Micon do?", then do the opposite.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Sounds like someone played some poker.

     
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      ADegenerate: lol
      
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      LLL: sonagod
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealanddonk View Post
    I know its going to take a long time for you to fully process the day and the Main Event. I'll point you weren't feeling well last night which may have an effect on you, and keep in mind you final tabled the Limit Holdem event. Rather than giving up tournament poker entirely, it is probably a good idea to take a break from NL Holdem tournaments.

    As possibly a bad idea, consider learning the other games in HORSE and see how that goes, you are definitely smart, talented and have the ability to win.
    I didn't feel well last night (or Tuesday night, for that matter), but I felt okay today, and I was definitely "seeing" things well from a poker perspective.

    Just moments before this hand, I made that good laydown against what turned out to be runner-runner trip tens. Rather than call off a 28,500 river bet, I reasoned out the way the hand went down, and talked myself into believing (accurately) that he had trip tens. I made many other good laydowns today, including another AK hand where I thought there was a decent chance I was against AA or KK, folded pre, and the guy was all flustered because indeed he had AA.

    I have had days where I just wasn't playing good poker, but today wasn't one of them. I had a tough table, a bad seat, and lousy cards for the most part (aside from that lucky double-up), but I can't blame this on an off-day.

    I don't even think the shove was an outright horrible decision, either. It was probably a mistake, but not a huge one. If I just raise, someone calls with 88, and the flop comes A84, I end up beating myself up for not running him off the hand pre. I definitely didn't have enough chips to get away from flopping a pair, and my ability to c-bet was also handicapped big time by my stack size and the pot size once I did. So it wasn't an easy spot at all.

    This is really more about the unexpected reaction after I busted.

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Tournaments are full of heartbreaks and extreme variance.

    Come on Druff you know this as long as you've been playing and whenever you enter a tournament you realize that things will go wrong way more then they go right.

    You can play great and still take a bad beat at any time or just get coolered.

    It can be a terrible punch to the stomach type of feeling whenever you play for days to bust like you did but it's what you chose to do knowing that in all likelihood this will happen frequently.

    You will get over this in a few days but right now your state of mind isn't good and luckily for you that wsop is another 11 months away before you have to deal with this again if you choose to do so.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Can we finally, as a culture, admit that no one really wins in poker?

     
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      JimmyG_415: The sum is less than 0 w/the house cut
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Except Brandon. He does well.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Can we finally, as a culture, admit that no one really wins in poker?
    That's the funny thing.

    I am one of the few who actually did win at poker.

    I even won at this year's WSOP (admittedly after losing in 2011 & 12).

    I actually had a plan to quit the WSOP at 50, due to the stress it causes. I might actually retire from it 9 years early.

    I say "might" because I am fresh off this super-disappointing situation, and might feel differently next June.

    But I can't let it get to me this much when I lose. I can't have a repeat of this. I either need a completely different emotional approach (which may be very tough) or I will have to quit tournament poker. I'm talking about for health and emotional reasons, not for monetary reasons. I will still play limit holdem cash games from time to time, as that doesn't have the same effect on me. (This is especially true because no single hand in limit hold 'em devastates you.)

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Can we finally, as a culture, admit that no one really wins in poker?
    That's the funny thing.

    I am one of the few who actually did win at poker.

    I even won at this year's WSOP (admittedly after losing in 2011 & 12).

    I actually had a plan to quit the WSOP at 50, due to the stress it causes. I might actually retire from it 9 years early.

    I say "might" because I am fresh off this super-disappointing situation, and might feel differently next June.

    But I can't let it get to me this much when I lose. I can't have a repeat of this. I either need a completely different emotional approach (which may be very tough) or I will have to quit tournament poker. I'm talking about for health and emotional reasons, not for monetary reasons. I will still play limit holdem cash games from time to time, as that doesn't have the same effect on me. (This is especially true because no single hand in limit hold 'em devastates you.)
    i know perfectly well you killed at the tables for a long time, and Ive always respected that reality.

    but its like drug dealing dude; there arent any happy endings in poker in the long term.

    two finger shout out to dutch boyd and pretty much everyone else.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Not to sound mean but if after a few tournaments this year Druff feels like this you have to wonder how Micon can handle several years of fail at the WSOP?

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    As an interesting side note, you know you have a terrible Day 3 table when a discussion breaks out regarding the ability to make a living at live tournament poker, and the entire table joins the discussion and has valuable input.

    It was a table of 9 pros at that point.

    Coincidentally, Loi Pham mentioned that he had mostly stopped playing tournaments in recent years because, "It's too stressful and I'm getting too old" -- similar to the sentiments I'm expressing here. He also complained about taxes, travel expenses, rake, and variance, and the table wholeheartedly agreed.

    I play the WSOP because my outside expenses to play are very low, so it's really just me versus the rake, and I now stick to events with enough dead money to where I feel I am +EV. But the variance really is huge, and I could play 100 years of these things and still would be at a relatively small sample size.

    Now, on one hand, it is encouraging to see how deep I ran in 5 of the 7 events I played:

    $1500 Millionaire Maker: Min cashed
    $1500 Limit: Mid-Day-1 chip leader, busted Day 2
    $5000 Limit: 5th place
    $1500 Ante Only: Early exit
    $2500 Limit: Late Day 2, close to cashing
    $1500 NL: Early exit
    Main Event: Late Day 3, very close to cashing

    Give me the Main Event 100 times, with the same approximate group of entrants, and I bet I will show a nice profit on it.

    But this is just so damn stressful, I don't know if I want it anymore.

    Part of me just wants to take my nice lifetime profit in poker, grind 40-80 or 60-120 every so often at Commerce or Bellagio, and otherwise take my ball and go home.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    BTW they just completed Day 3, and there are 666 left, supposedly. Definitely didn't burst the bubble, but it's very close. That's what I figured.

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    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I have become too much of a perfectionist. I pat myself on the back for good plays, but then absolutely hate myself when I make a mistake that costs me a better finish. And if I made good plays before that, it frustrates me even more, as I feel like I wasted them.

    I for one used to get almost physically and emotionally ill and would mentally steam over things like this and always asking what if this what if that. It is a high variance game especially in the short term and if you let this shit bother you then it is going to make you feel worse mentally and sometimes physically and you will play worse if you are playing again soon and can't get this feeling out of your system. I think it is bad for your overall health period if this stuff continually eats at you.

    You need to find a way to play and not worry about the losing. Especially when you are only playing a few tourneys per year. You have to let this stuff go. Don't be a perfectionist. Don't obsess over the plays. It is easier said than done but it is what you have to do.

    I can tell by your tweets that you are sort of a perfectionist when keeping track of things etc.... Now I am not saying it is a bad thing and it is great for people who are following your progress (especially people with pieces) but if it is affecting you that greatly when you lose you have to either deal with it or take a step back.

    I strongly strongly recommend you buy this book and let it all soak in deeply. It helped me a lot with emotional control with winning and losing.

    http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Poker.../dp/1419680897

    STRESS KILLS

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    Not to sound mean but if after a few tournaments this year Druff feels like this you have to wonder how Micon can handle several years of fail at the WSOP?
    I don't want to comment on Micon, and truthfully I can't comment on how he feels, because he is a different person than me.

    I have said for years that tournament poker is very draining, and it will kill you if you do it for a living, unless you're one of the very top players who wins so consistently that they can overcome all of the problematic factors of the lifestyle. But we're talking about very few people here, and even fewer when you consider the ones who blow the money elsewhere and end up broke anyway. It was especially eye-opening when seemingly successful, responsible Gavin Griffin admitted being broke.

    I have never been a tournament pro. I am a limit cash pro who plays the WSOP for fun and hopefully to get lucky and hit some nice scores. But this isn't fun anymore if it's going to invoke reactions like what I had tonight. What's funny is I wasn't even going through the day with a fear of busting. I had the attitude of, "If it happens, it sucks, but it's not like I ever had a lot of chips in this thing." That's why my post-bustout reaction was so alarming to me. I think the added torture of having to wait around until the chips got counted, and then having to play out my last 1500, was a contributing factor.

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    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    You just described a textbook panic attack. Fatigue, intense concentration, and then a shot of adrenaline fried your system temporarily. Did everything take on a surreal feel, through the looking glass point of view?

    The last one I had was playing at Fallsview in Canada in 2007. I had played like 20 hours, wasn't feeling great, and was fueling my energy level with a bunch of coffee. Nothing bad happened, I just grew weary enough where I had to quit, and after a few steps away from the table it hit. I felt my entire body stiffen, got dizzy. I sat down for a few moments, and decided to try and get to my room. I was walking like Frankenstein because my legs were stiff, and my neck actually went numb also. Very strange, and I was embarrassed at the way I was walking even though no one was around besides the front desk girl.

    I had anxiety attacks before, and had Xanax in my bag in my room, and even with that I didn't feel right for like 3 hours. The ones I had previously were more mild, and more shortness of breath/cold sweat type ones. That was the worst physical one where I could barely walk.

    You probably just have something working on you and were tired. Were you drinking a lot of caffeine throughout the day?

    I have known a handful of people that once they have their first continue to get them for awhile, but yours sounds more like an acute perfect storm situation.

    I almost have to pop a xanax just reading some of the past 408 and China posts that talk of ingesting ripped fuel, and ECA stacks when dieting, because that stuff is the main culprit for most I knew that developed chronic panic attacks.

    Better luck next year. You'll be ready to get back on that horse by then.

     
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    Silver varys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Can we finally, as a culture, admit that no one really wins in poker when theyre scared to show down AK and KK?

     
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      ADegenerate:

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I have become too much of a perfectionist. I pat myself on the back for good plays, but then absolutely hate myself when I make a mistake that costs me a better finish. And if I made good plays before that, it frustrates me even more, as I feel like I wasted them.

    I for one used to get almost physically and emotionally ill and would mentally steam over things like this and always asking what if this what if that. It is a high variance game especially in the short term and if you let this shit bother you then it is going to make you feel worse mentally and sometimes physically and you will play worse if you are playing again soon and can't get this feeling out of your system. I think it is bad for your overall health period if this stuff continually eats at you.

    You need to find a way to play and not worry about the losing. Especially when you are only playing a few tourneys per year. You have to let this stuff go. Don't be a perfectionist. Don't obsess over the plays. It is easier said than done but it is what you have to do.

    I can tell by your tweets that you are sort of a perfectionist when keeping track of things etc.... Now I am not saying it is a bad thing and it is great for people who are following your progress (especially people with pieces) but if it is affecting you that greatly when you lose you have to either deal with it or take a step back.

    I strongly strongly recommend you buy this book and let it all soak in deeply. It helped me a lot with emotional control with winning and losing.

    http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Poker.../dp/1419680897

    STRESS KILLS
    Fortunately this is the end of my tournament play until next WSOP, so I don't have to worry about it affecting my poker play in the short term.

    Needless to say, I'm not dying to run out and play cash any time soon, either.

    Maybe I will be back next year, which is why I didn't say I'm definitely quitting tournament poker. I hate when people say, "I'm quitting! I'm done! I'm retiring!" and then come back. Ends up looking like a big attention ploy.

    I do seriously need to approach the whole thing differently if I play again, though. Hard to do that, though. Sometimes you can't change who you are, what you think, or what emotions you have.

    Even though I hated the highly biased David Baker commentary on the final table, the one legitimate LOL moment I had watching it was when someone (I don't know if it was David or Matt Matros) said, "If Todd loses this one, I think the Rio is going to explode." He was referring to the all-in hand where I had a set of aces, and Michael Moore had a gutshot draw. I ended up winning the hand, but the "Rio is going to explode" comment was a reference to the intense level of frustration I would show if I took yet another beat. (This was after a succession of bad beats I had already taken in the prior two hours.) I laughed while watching it because it was kind of true. I definitely wouldn't have taken it well if I busted there. When I did bust, it was a standard race which I lost on the turn, but I was so short and the hand was so standard that I had already resigned myself to pretty much being done, barring a miracle. So I walked away only mildly disappointed, knowing the inevitable had occurred.

    The two things that I have a hard time dealing with are:

    1) Mistakes or marginal plays that cost me a lot of chips and either prevent me from cashing or halt me from making a deeper money run.

    2) Ugly coolers which have a major effect on the outcome of the tournament. (The AK/AQ hand against Moore at the $5k Limit, where he rivered the Q, was an example of this.)

    Today's was a combination of #1 and #2. It was also at a really bad time -- a few hours before the money in the Main Event, when I was short but not desperate for chips yet.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    You just described a textbook panic attack. Fatigue, intense concentration, and then a shot of adrenaline fried your system temporarily. Did everything take on a surreal feel, through the looking glass point of view?

    The last one I had was playing at Fallsview in Canada in 2007. I had played like 20 hours, wasn't feeling great, and was fueling my energy level with a bunch of coffee. Nothing bad happened, I just grew weary enough where I had to quit, and after a few steps away from the table it hit. I felt my entire body stiffen, got dizzy. I sat down for a few moments, and decided to try and get to my room. I was walking like Frankenstein because my legs were stiff, and my neck actually went numb also. Very strange, and I was embarrassed at the way I was walking even though no one was around besides the front desk girl.

    I had anxiety attacks before, and had Xanax in my bag in my room, and even with that I didn't feel right for like 3 hours. The ones I had previously were more mild, and more shortness of breath/cold sweat type ones. That was the worst physical one where I could barely walk.

    You probably just have something working on you and were tired. Were you drinking a lot of caffeine throughout the day?

    I have known a handful of people that once they have their first continue to get them for awhile, but yours sounds more like an acute perfect storm situation.

    I almost have to pop a xanax just reading some of the past 408 and China posts that talk of ingesting ripped fuel, and ECA stacks when dieting, because that stuff is the main culprit for most I knew that developed chronic panic attacks.

    Better luck next year. You'll be ready to get back on that horse by then.
    Maybe it was a panic attack. To me it seemed more like shock. And shock seemed more appropriate, given that I was kind of shocked that I was suddenly out after all of this time and effort. I wasn't really panicking because I knew there wasn't any kind of terrible consequence for being out. It just sucked big time, and there was intense disappointment and some anger at myself, as well.

    The surreal feeling came at the peak of the symptoms. I couldn't stand, or even sit down without putting my head down. When I tried to look, my vision was blurry and I was very dizzy. My mind actually was 100% though, and I was trying to talk myself through it. I had no problem walking once the feeling passed after about 20 minutes. As I said, when the top of my head filled with sweat, I knew it was about to pass.

    I didn't have much caffeine -- just one Pepsi many hours earlier. Caffeine never affects me negatively, anyway. I can sleep fine after ingesting a lot of it, and it does not make me jittery or anything else.

    I think this was kind of a meltdown from the intense frustration of both the situation (27 hours of mostly well-played poker just to bust in a marginal situation and lose $10k) and the anger at myself for almost choosing the option that would have saved me, but going the other way.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I also feel like there's all kinds of pressure on myself to cash in the Main if I play in 2014, because of three consecutive Day 3s that amounted to nothing.

    I felt the same pressure to perform in the $5k Limit this year after the devastating bubble finish in 2012, but fortunately the cards cooperated and I finished 5th, so I felt like that pressure was off. But, say I bubbled the $5k again or otherwise came close to cashing and failed, I think I wouldn't have taken it well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I also feel like there's all kinds of pressure on myself to cash in the Main if I play in 2014, because of three consecutive Day 3s that amounted to nothing.

    I felt the same pressure to perform in the $5k Limit this year after the devastating bubble finish in 2012, but fortunately the cards cooperated and I finished 5th, so I felt like that pressure was off. But, say I bubbled the $5k again or otherwise came close to cashing and failed, I think I wouldn't have taken it well.
    There shouldn't be any "big pressure" to cash next year but everyones minds do think differently and if you feel some huge pressure to cash and can't shake that then you probably shouldn't play.

    3 day 3s mean NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. You have played 10 or so main events and cashed for around that much? That's actually pretty good considering most players lose.

    You really have to stop obsessing over the losing streaks and cashless streaks in certain events. It's all about sample size and you will never get a huge sample in the main event.

    Especially the limit events. You could brick every limit event for the next 20 years and be the first guy eliminated from each tourney and still be WAY ahead lifetime in these with a HUGE ROI. So these cashless streaks etc.. shouldn't mean anything because well they don't mean anything.

    It's very similar to saying "well I lost 4 cash sessions in a row so I feel I must win today". In the grand scheme of things it means nothing. it's what happens long term.

    Again I highly suggest you read the book I linked. it may not change your ways of thinking but it could in some areas and I believe it could truly help you deal with streaks etc. that you are always thinking about.

     
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