Lock poker pros are trying to unload $35k on 2+2 at below-market value ($0.33 on the dollar)

[Dan Druff]

So Greg "HokieGreg" Tiller is pushing his loyal Twitter followers to deposit and play on Lock Poker:



However, he doesn't seem to have much faith in Lock Poker himself, selling $10,000 at $0.33 on the dollar on 2+2:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...stcount=140672

And now another Lock Pro, Jared Hubbard, is selling $25,000 at the same $0.33 on the dollar, also on 2+2:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=23921

Keep in mind that the going rate currently for Lock money on 2+2 is about 38 cents on the dollar, so these guys are severely undercutting that in order to get their money sold quickly.

Here is Shane's response:

Just want to add 2 pieces of clarification.

#1. This isn't a case of a player selling all of their funds, its about them selling off part of their roll for some instant cash.

#2. We have said all along that the pro's are under the same cashout conditions as regular players. This means that just like everyone else pro's occasionally sell of parts of their roll to get faster access to funds.

Wait a second here.

Remember when everyone's cashouts were canceled a few months ago, and Shane said it was because certain affiliates were buying up Lock $ for cheap on 2+2 and then cashing them out at full value?

People asked Shane why Lock cared about that. (It was a BS story, but let's just assume for argument's sake that this was true.)

Shane responded that this behavior drove down the value of Lock funds in the 2+2 trading thread.

So Lock Poker canceled a bunch of cashouts a few months ago in order to supposedly prevent the value of 2+2 trading of their funds from dropping, and now Shane says it's completely okay that their own pros are causing this to actually happen!

So which one is it, Shane?

Does Lock care if the value of their funds in the 2+2 trading thread drops?

If yes, then why are you letting your own pros sell $35k for below-market value, thus causing the current market value to clearly drop?

If no, then why were those cashouts canceled a few months ago, citing the 2+2 trading thread as the reason?

[Dan Druff]

Some have suggested that these two Lock Pros know that the end is coming, and are trying to dump their money from Lock ASAP.

I don't think they have any inside info about that.

I think these two just realize that Lock is fucked, and have surmised (like the rest of us) that they will likely never see their money. So they've probably both made a conscious decision to get the vast majority money off ASAP, and are willing to sacrifice a little extra value to do it.

Totally unethical to continue to promote Lock, and sell your money on the site for a 3-to-1 loss, though.

Obviously neither of these guys have faith that they will ever be able to cash it out. If they did have faith, they could simply borrow the needed money from friends (or enter into backing/staking deals for the WSOP) and then cash out later at full value.

[Hockey Guy]

I'm sure this is all just a big misunderstanding. There should be a press release detailing all this in August/September on gambling911 & should be resolved by mid 2014.

You just need to be patient & stop rocking the boat.

[VegasJim]

I have always liked HokieGreg and Jhubb, but this is some greasy shit and they clearly have no morals.

[Erin Micunt]

Don't worry. All the lock pros "care" about the players and are doing everything they can to help. Melanie said so herself.

[BeerAndPoker]

Anyone try tweeting these guys back saying how shady it is to try to get people to play Lock while trying to dump their funds at 33% themselves?

I used to like HokieGreg from forum posts and his husng training videos but I can't respect someone who has no morals and is very two faced promoting Lock then trying to dump their funds at a low rate hoping no one notices.

Lock Pros should not be able to do that on 2+2 for various reasons. If the site really was on the up and up then Pros could have inside tips thus snag all the funds they could at 30-40% on the dollar but when they selling for those rates it shows how much faith they have in the label that pays them. In my opinion Lock Poker itself shouldn't want it's pros doing this and 2+2 shouldn't allow it regardless because of the reasons I described.

In fact, 2+2 should ban all sales of Lock funds in general and cut their ties with Lock altogether. 2+2 don't need Lock Poker and shouldn't want to be surrounded by such scummy filth yet they continue to accept money from them and allow their shills to come on the site saying all will be well.

2+2 isn't like a site such as Gambling911 (who will say anything for money)and a few others that rely on this advertising income from Lock they have other various revenue streams.

[Dan Druff]

2+2 isn't accepting money from Lock. They dropped Lock's ads awhile back (after a lot of pressure), which is more than I can say for Cardplayer. That's why I no longer have Cardplayer's RSS feed on this site.

The Lock forum still exists because 2+2 wants attention brought to Lock's shadiness, which is a good decision. If that forum gets taken down, a lot more people will get fooled by Lock.

[BeerAndPoker]

Oh yeah, I forgot 2+2 dropped Lock as a sponsor.

They should ban transfers of their funds when they are going for such a low % because nothing ends well even though the person who purchases is taking the known risk but what if somehow Lock actually can rebound a bit (highly unlikely) and a pro knows they will so the buy up the funds? I just hate they fact any pro can buy or sell Lock money in general unless it was virtually guaranteed which would mean it's at a high rate like 99+% which is what Pokerstars T$ go for.

[Dan Druff]

For those of you who are still in the "Maybe those two pros just need quick money" camp, let me burst that bubble right now.

Taking a 3-to-1 loss on your money is HUGE. Payday loan companies, for example, which are notoriously bad for basically loansharking, don't hit you with anywhere NEAR this kind of vig.

Basically you only accept a 3-to-1 loss on a fairly large sum of money if you think that there's a realistic chance you end up with zero otherwise.

So let's take Greg "HokieGreg" Tiller, for example.

He wants to sell $10,000 on Lock for $3300, taking a $6700 loss.

Greg is not some newb to the poker scene. He has lots of friends in poker, and lots of other people who otherwise like him.

$3300 is NOT a lot of money in the poker community. People loan and stake $3300 all the time.

Sure, you can't just walk into a poker room as an unknown and get someone to loan you $3300, but if you're as well-known and established as Greg, you can easily get a loan or stake for $3300.

Now let's say Greg asked friends for a $3300 loan and promised to pay $1000 on top of it. He'd have people lining up to loan him the money.

Let's say Greg wanted to play some WSOP events with the $3300. He could easily find people to stake him if he took a nonstandard staking arrangement (i.e. a smaller percentage of himself than usual), and again people would be lining up to do this.

So given the above (and they ARE givens, if you know anything about the poker world), why in the world would someone like Greg Tiller accept a $6700 (67%) loss on his Lock money if he believes Lock to be legitimate?

Because he doesn't.

Because he realizes that Lock is in huge trouble, and he'd rather get $3300 now than $0 later.

I don't think Greg has any inside information. I think he just realizes what all of us do -- that Lock is a sinking ship, and like the rats on the Titanic, he's jumping off. Of course, like a true rat, he is also promoting the site for others to still jump on, as he is getting ready to jump off.

It simply defies any sort of logic that Greg (and now Jared Hubbard), both well known and well connected within poker, would be selling their Lock $ at 33% if they really believed they could get it off.

Why is Lock allowing this?

I imagine that they are not happy about it, but they don't want to refuse to allow the pros to do this, or otherwise they might make a stink about Lock's financial situation, and cause even greater harm.

Why doesn't Lock just pay them and shut them up?

They are probably afraid this will start a precedent where other Lock pros immediately want their money, and Lock can't afford that.

So basically Lock has no choice but to let this happen, make excuses, and hope this blows over.

[Sanlmar]

Why is Lock allowing this?

Why doesn't Lock just pay them and shut them up?

They are probably afraid this will start a precedent where other Lock pros immediately want their money, and Lock can't afford that.

So basically Lock has no choice but to let this happen, make excuses, and hope this blows over.

The most demonstrable evidence of Lock's demise so far.
Don't want to set precedent of paying the three (sarcasm) pros left - or simply are unable to. Lock elects to suffer the huge PR black eye.

Time of death, Doctor?

[haleylh]

Interesting. Tiller tried to dump the $10K on 6/26. Looking at his @hokiegreg Twitter feed:

Tweets promoting Lock Poker in some form, June 1-26: 25
Tweets promoting Lock Poker in some form, June 27-present: 0

His Twitter feed still has him claiming himself as a Lock pro and also has the "Revolution Gaming" background image, and his home page (hokiegreg.com) still has lots of Lock mentions. Still, he may soon assert some sort of claim that he's no longer "actively promoting" Lock.

[Deal]

Bigdog is still shill tweeting Lock. He went down with the AP ship when it sank and is posed to do the same here.

[GaryQQQ]

Lock looks like it's in its final death throes now, I'll be surprised if it is still functioning at the end of July.