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Thread: iPoker network attempting to force out US players secretly on network + accused shady behavior for major affiliate

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    iPoker network attempting to force out US players secretly on network + accused shady behavior for major affiliate

    iPoker has apparently decided that they are at risk by not doing enough to thwart Americans from secretly playing on their network -- and they are fingering one large affiliate for causing most of the problem!

    There is an affiliate known as iPokerVIP, and is also sometimes known as just PokerVIP.

    iPoker is demanding that all players who signed up to ANY skin through iPokerVIP go through a rigorous verification process. This process is known as "KYC", which stands for "Know Your Customer".

    iPoker sent out a memo to all skins, demanding that they perform a KYC verification for any iPokerVIP/PokerVIP customer:



    They had just four days to complete this verification (May 16-20), and all accounts not verified in this fashion were supposedly frozen on May 20th.

    This was said NOT to affect previously-verified accounts, nor did it affect accounts that weren't signed up through iPokerVIP.

    iPokerVIP was also supposedly facilitating both "secret rakeback" and "backdoor cashouts" for their players on iPoker.

    Secret rakeback is extra rakeback beyond what is allowed by the network. The extra rakeback is sent to the player via player-to-player transfer. Secret rakeback is typically offered so an affiliate can "poach" a player from another affiliate, by offering that player better (and unauthorized) rakeback.

    Backdoor cashouts involve the skin itself cashing out the player, rather than it being done through the network's cashier. This is not only faster, but it also enables American players to cash out, as they are often playing under phony identities and cannot cash out in the traditional fashion. The skin subtracts the cashout amount from the player balance, and then pays the player directly. This would seem like a victimless crime, but again it encourages poaching, and also enables Americans to secretly play there (putting iPoker at risk).

    In early May, iPoker ended all player-to-player transfers in order to combat secret rakeback, and many affiliates were claiming it was mostly aimed at iPokerVIP.

    iPokerVIP is also accused of trying to get other affiliates in trouble for doing exactly what they're doing -- secret rakeback. Some have accused them of sending "spy" players to other affiliates known to offer secret rakeback. Once these "spies" secure the secret rakeback through other affiliates, they give the proof to iPokerVIP, who then reports them. This is done despite the fact that iPokerVIP itself also has secret rakeback. Some affiliates have said they were targeted because they offered better secret rakeback deals than iPokerVIP did!

    iPokerVIP is said to now own Pokertube.

    iPokerVIP's owner (Jamie Nevin) apparently got banned from 2+2 at one point for sending PM spam. However, they have since come to terms and now pay a lot of money for ads on 2+2.

    Anyway, if you have an iPoker account through iPokerVIP, and you're an American, you might very well be fucked. I don't know anyone personally who has been suspended, and the May 20th deadline has passed, but it's very possible that a lot of accounts were already suspended and I just haven't heard.

    What a mess.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    In semi-related news, Muchos Poker got banned from iPoker on May 10th.



    Muchos Poker is an affiliate that allows players to play across several networks under a single account.

    It is not clear why they were kicked off iPoker, but supposedly this is also related to secret rakeback and perhaps allowing Americans to play.

    However, Muchos is cooperating and claims no player funds are at risk, and nobody seems particularly concerned at the moment. Muchos players are allowed to withdraw from iPoker, after some security checks for collusion/fraud.

    Right now the focus remains on iPokerVIP, for all of the reasons stated in the above post.

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    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    My guess is the secret rakeback is simply their public reason, and behind the scenes they could care les about it. iPoker has been trying all sorts of things to "improve poker ecology" and getting rid of the US grinders on the network would be a good start. I mean realistically the chances that a US player playing on iPoker is a losing player is slim to none. Even if there are just 100 or so getting rid of them would make the network a whole lot fishier and more appealing, especially with iPoker locked in a three-way race for the #2 spot with Party and FTP.

    I'm pretty sure the future of online poker (in regulated markets) will see a ban on all P2P transfers
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

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    My buddy John has been trying to expose Jamie's BS for awhile now, publicly calling him out on 2+2 for his practices through PokerVIP. We posted similar news about this on 4Flush last week - with several big posters at PAL also sharing their horror stories with Jamie. Sounds like a horribly cluster-fucked situation.

    http://www.4flush.com/online-poker-n...y-ipoker/13942
    >> iGaming News, Legislation Updates and Poker Site Reviews @ PokerLaws.org

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    Muchos was letting USA players play on ipoker..... I could or could not of been one of them

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Personally I'd never take the risk because who knows if you would ever see any money if just a certain skin was accepting Americans since they could easily be removed from the network and then you likely never see one cent. If a network was extremely shady they could setup a skin to accept Americans despite the rest saying no and then close on purpose when they have enough funds leaving USA players high and dry without them really knowing they were screwed.

    I would never take a chance with proxies since if you get disconnected then what? You still would need a source to get they money off especially since p2p transfers are practically becoming obsolete so the day of selling off on 2+2 as an American is nearly gone or the % of what you get on the dollar makes it extremely -EV to play.

    If you had a trusted third party such as close family overseas or a friend who is well off who could cash the money out and send it to you then with teamviewer into their computers you could possibly play on ROW sites. This person would have to be extremely close and trustworthy to not cheat in your games or not roll you for the money which in this world we all know money makes some people do shady things even to the people they are allegedly the closest with.

    My advice is not to take these chances for all the reasons mentioned above and in no way did I write this to help people try to get around sites policies but this stuff for the most part is common knowledge spread all over the place.

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