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Thread: Just spent a weekend at Harrah's Laughlin

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Just spent a weekend at Harrah's Laughlin

    For those of you unfamiliar with Laughlin, it can best be described as "White Trash Vegas with a River".

    The town itself is tiny. On the other side of the narrow river, it's a different city and state -- Bullhead City, Arizona, to be exact. Almost all of Laughlin's employees live in Bullhead.

    If you ever get tired of the Vegas strip scene (and the weird downtown "Fremont Street Expreience"), and want to travel back in time to see old-school Vegas, you just need to drive 90 miles south to Laughiln.

    Well, it's old-school Vegas minus much of the charm.

    Why did I go?

    Because I was offered a video poker promotion to where I could basically play slightly +EV video poker while increasing my tier score, which helps me progress to renew my Seven Stars card for 2014.

    Here are some things I noticed while there:

    - Blackjack is basically unplayable if you're a card counter. They will either shuffle up on you (meaning they will shuffle the deck as soon as you increase your bet), or will bar you from the game/property really quickly. No, I didn't get kicked out of Harrah's. I don't play blackjack at Caesar's or MGM properties anymore, because I don't want to lose the ability to play other games in those places.

    - Harrah's, which was built in 1988, hasn't aged well. It looks like it was build in the '70s and renovated about 10 years ago in the most low-budget fashion.

    - The elevator situation was one of the weirdest things I've ever seen. I stayed in "Tower 3", and despite being served by 6 elevators, there was a perpetual line at the lobby to go up. This was very frustrating if you just needed to go down to the lobby quickly and didn't feel like waiting to go back up. It was full there because of Memorial Day weekend, but still really weird to see an ever-present line for the elevator. Oddly enough, the elevator came very quickly when you called it from the floor where you stayed, so it seemed the backlog was only going up, not going down. I can't explain that.

    - I didn't arrive until late at night, so I called ahead and told them I would be checking in late. I was concerned that they might give away my non-smoking room, as Caesar's Las Vegas once did. (They're not supposed to, but they'll do it anyway at times if they're really busy.) When I called ahead, they blocked off a room for me. I was lucky I did this, because their system went down, and when I arrived, nobody was able to check in! I was the only one they could check in, because my room was already blocked off. Everyone else was sent to the crappy cafe with a lame $30 comp. I would have been beyond pissed if this happened to me, because it was late and I was tired. LOL @ not being able to check people in, though. Have they ever heard of redundant systems?

    - In Vegas, especially at places like Cosmopolitan and Bellagio, you see tons of really hot chicks walking around, many of whom are single. This is NOT the case in Laughlin. There are very few hot chicks, and the ones you do see are almost always with their boyfriend/husband.

    - For reasons I don't understand, you can rent Seadoos and jetskis to use in the river, but not regular boats.

    - There is a "water taxi" that runs between the casinos, but it costs $4 each way. You would think the casinos would just pay for the water taxi themselves, but I guess they don't want you leaving and visiting the competition.

    - Harrah's has their own Shell station right outside the casino. I knew that the prices had to be high, as it's very un-Harrah's-like for them to give you any sort of bargain. I kept driving down the road (in the direction I was going, anyway) and found a gas station that was 14-cents-per-gallon cheaper. My Jewish sense of excitement kicked in, until I realized that Laughlin is so backward that this station actually didn't have an automated credit card reader at the pump. You actually had to go inside and give them your credit card (and go back in to retrieve it). I hope the trashy women working there didn't steal my credit card number.

    - If you drive in from California, you come off I-40 East and go north on the "Needles Highway". The highway is one lane each direction and is very poorly maintained, with a lot of bumps and potholes. However, once you cross the Nevada state line, the Needles Highway becomes smooth and well-maintained. I guess California doesn't give a shit because they don't count on that highway for tourism $, while Nevada does. You would think Nevada would kick in some money to California to maintain it (as they did for I-15), but apparently they don't want to.

    - Harrah's has an "Adult Tower" that forbids children from staying in those rooms. For whatever reason, they didn't give me that tower. The walls are thin, and I got stuck next to a loud family. I wasn't there long enough to want to bother switching rooms. If you ever go there, ask for the Adult Tower.

    - Harrah's was the first non-motel I've seen in a long time where they don't provide you a plastic lining to put into your ice bucket. I found that kind of nasty and actually used my own plastic bag to line it. You know they don't wash that thing.

    - The video poker odds were pretty LOL bad for most machines. This didn't affect me, as I knew the right machines to play (and had the bankroll to play high limit, which was the only area featuring those machines), but a lot of the 25c and $1 machines had pretty awful payouts. Of course, the typical tourist has no clue about those sorts of things, and sank plenty of money into those terrible machines.

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    Bronze Sitting Out's Avatar
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    we stopped there once for lunch on our way to the grand canyon. I was thinking that being so far off the strip, they must make it up by offering special incentives, but from what you are saying, that isn't the case. I can't imagine why anyone would make that a destination place w/o something to lure them.

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    With all due respect it sounds like a weekend of hell just to earn some comp points.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Sick brags:





    Despite these, I only won $325 over 2000 hands, thanks to a terrible first 1000 hands.

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    How Could You? WillieMcFML's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Sick brags:





    Despite these, I only won $325 over 2000 hands, thanks to a terrible first 1000 hands.
    how is that even possible???

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieMcFML View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Sick brags:





    Despite these, I only won $325 over 2000 hands, thanks to a terrible first 1000 hands.
    how is that even possible???
    I was playing $5/credit, meaning it was $25 per hand.

    I played 2000 hands.

    After the first 1000 hands, I was down $2325, which was terrible. I had only $25,000 coin in at that point, meaning I was averaging worse than a 91% payout on a machine with an expected 99.17% return!

    Why did I do so badly? Because I hit zero four-of-a-kinds or better, and I literally missed almost every straight and flush draw. I did hit a few straights and flushes by either getting dealt them or making them in "backdoor" fashion, but I missed almost 100% of them when I had four cards to a straight or flush. I think I hit zero straight draws and like 1 or 2 flush draws the entire time.

    The second 1000 hands also struggled from a draw perspective, but I did hit the $2000 four aces hand, the $1250 straight flush, and a $625 four queens hand. I lost $1225 on all other hands combined, but those three big ones put me up $2650, and $325 ahead overall.

    I had about eight four-to-a-royals (sometimes dealt, sometimes not dealt), but none panned out. A royal would have paid $20,000.

    You can expect a royal once every 40,000 hands.

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    Bronze John Stamos's Avatar
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    didn't really feel this deserved a new thread so I thought I would throw it in here since I am sure druff will see it. I will be in Vegas in Mid-June and I am wanting to get tickets to "O" at Bellagio. The only other cirque show I have seen in Vegas is KA and it was pretty damn good so I wanted to see this one. What is my best route for getting good tickets at a cheaper or discounted price - any local tricks etc...? Thanks, and I have heard from friends to steer clear from Laughlin. I do give them credit for their persistence, I don't gamble much at all and I get an offer once a month for a free week stay and flight to the Harrahs in Laughlin. I might take them up one of these days.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Stamos View Post
    didn't really feel this deserved a new thread so I thought I would throw it in here since I am sure druff will see it. I will be in Vegas in Mid-June and I am wanting to get tickets to "O" at Bellagio. The only other cirque show I have seen in Vegas is KA and it was pretty damn good so I wanted to see this one. What is my best route for getting good tickets at a cheaper or discounted price - any local tricks etc...? Thanks, and I have heard from friends to steer clear from Laughlin. I do give them credit for their persistence, I don't gamble much at all and I get an offer once a month for a free week stay and flight to the Harrahs in Laughlin. I might take them up one of these days.
    Maybe someone more Jewish than me can chime in, but I don't know of a way to get cheap tickets to "O", unless you want terrible seats.

    When I went, I paid full price, but I stood in the "cancellation line" and persistently demanded really good seats.

    You just get in that line about 15 minutes before showtime, and when you get to the front, they offer you tickets that were cancelled (or more likely, released by the casino). Some will be great, others will be not-so-great. If you are offered something not-so-great, refuse it. They might make you get back in line, which you should do. Then, when you get to the front again, you will be offered different seats. Eventually the line will disappear and you will be able to have them scroll through the remaining seats and you'll get a really good one.

    You will still have to pay full price, but you will get much better seats than the "premium" seats everyone else bought.

    Some form of this trick also works at just about every other Vegas show. Always ask when the "casino seats" are released, and how you can buy them. Sometimes you have to gamble with being able to see the show at all, but if you're willing to do this, you will often get the best seats in the house (literally).

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    Platinum garrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Sick brags:





    Despite these, I only won $325 over 2000 hands, thanks to a terrible first 1000 hands.
    They call you a jew, but you don't seem to gamble like one.

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    Silver Sandwich's Avatar
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    HOW is this 8/5 Jacks or Better machine "slightly +EV" or "the right one to play"!!?? I've been told to scope out and play nothing lower than 9/6 (full pay)... and even those are only +EV due to comps.

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    Gold abrown83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandwich View Post
    HOW is this 8/5 Jacks or Better machine "slightly +EV" or "the right one to play"!!?? I've been told to scope out and play nothing lower than 9/6 (full pay)... and even those are only +EV due to comps.
    It's not a Jacks or Better machine, it's a Bonus Poker machine. The payouts on that machine are .37% less than a full pay JOB machine, but like Druff said he had some kind of promotion that must have made it near or +EV.

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    Platinum cmoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Stamos View Post
    didn't really feel this deserved a new thread so I thought I would throw it in here since I am sure druff will see it. I will be in Vegas in Mid-June and I am wanting to get tickets to "O" at Bellagio. The only other cirque show I have seen in Vegas is KA and it was pretty damn good so I wanted to see this one. What is my best route for getting good tickets at a cheaper or discounted price - any local tricks etc...? Thanks, and I have heard from friends to steer clear from Laughlin. I do give them credit for their persistence, I don't gamble much at all and I get an offer once a month for a free week stay and flight to the Harrahs in Laughlin. I might take them up one of these days.

    I have never seen KA so cant comment on that one. I have seen two shows, "O" and the Beatles one. O I fell asleep at and so did some Japanese tourists right next to us. The Beatles one I thought was better, but I think that was because there was at least music with lyrics in it.

    Obviously I am in the minority because Cirque du Soleil prints money, but I never saw what the big deal was about these shows. A bunch of gymnasts jumping around to different types of music. The shows all seem to be more or less the same but just have different million dollar sets. It is cool for the first 10 minutes and then it just seems to become the same thing over and over.

    I would much rather go to a UFC fight, watch a game at Lagasse stadium, or go to a good comedy show. I would skip O

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    Silver Sandwich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post
    It's not a Jacks or Better machine, it's a Bonus Poker machine. The payouts on that machine are .37% less than a full pay JOB machine, but like Druff said he had some kind of promotion that must have made it near or +EV.
    Ah... ok, got it. I was confused, as those payout tables look just like the Jacks or Better payout tables that I've been told to AVOID in A.C.

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    Bronze offthetop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Sick brags:





    Despite these, I only won $325 over 2000 hands, thanks to a terrible first 1000 hands.
    You never double down?
    Martin Curacao 95.5 KWNR Radio Host "We see 192 000 miles for your car. How did you put on that many miles since 2005?"

    2005 Chevy Impala owner "Drove it"

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by offthetop View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Sick brags:





    Despite these, I only won $325 over 2000 hands, thanks to a terrible first 1000 hands.
    You never double down?
    No double feature on those machines, and I wouldn't anyway.

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    What do Peter Falcone, Chino Rheems and Dan Druff have in common?
    When faced with a difficult decision, ask yourself "What would Micon do?", then do the opposite.

    PFA Rookie of the Year Awards
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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Many casinos don't have 9-6 Jacks or Better.

    8-5 Bonus Poker is almost as good (though still inferior). The strategy is very similar to that of 9-6 Jacks or Better, so there's very little additional work to learn it.

    8-5 Bonus Poker is just like 8-5 Jacks or Better, except you get extra pays for 4-of-a-kind. Instead of getting 25 for quads (like you do on Jacks or Better), you get anywhere between 25 to 80, depending upon which quads you get. Aces are the best, and pay 80.

    8-5 Bonus Poker is good because you get the added payouts for quads without giving up the 2x payout for 2-pair. Double-Double Bonus (and even some lousy Bonus Poker variants) take away the 2x for 2-pair, which is both crappy for odds and causes a major strategy adjustment with which most are not familiar.

    That's why Double Double Bonus Poker is the most popular variant nowadays. Casinos realized that most people have no clue that they need to make major strategy adjustments, so they offer the game and clean up. I saw a ton of people playing it in Laughlin, and I can guarantee that like 90% had no clue how to play differently than Jacks or Better.

    The promotion I had was giving me 10x RCs, meaning I was earning 25 cents in RCs for every $25 coin in. This is essentially a 1% rebate, which makes the game slightly +EV. Even if you want to say that RCs aren't actually worth full value because they can only be spent at Caesar's properties (and can only be cashed into freeplay at 1:1.25 ratio), it's still a good situation if you want to earn tier points.

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    Bronze John Stamos's Avatar
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    so whats the closest to +EV video poker game in say Caesars Palace? I am a total noob at slots

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    Cubic Zirconia
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Stamos View Post
    so whats the closest to +EV video poker game in say Caesars Palace? I am a total noob at slots
    http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/caesars-palace-las-vegas

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    Platinum JimmyG_415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Many casinos don't have 9-6 Jacks or Better.

    8-5 Bonus Poker is almost as good (though still inferior). The strategy is very similar to that of 9-6 Jacks or Better, so there's very little additional work to learn it.

    8-5 Bonus Poker is just like 8-5 Jacks or Better, except you get extra pays for 4-of-a-kind. Instead of getting 25 for quads (like you do on Jacks or Better), you get anywhere between 25 to 80, depending upon which quads you get. Aces are the best, and pay 80.

    8-5 Bonus Poker is good because you get the added payouts for quads without giving up the 2x payout for 2-pair. Double-Double Bonus (and even some lousy Bonus Poker variants) take away the 2x for 2-pair, which is both crappy for odds and causes a major strategy adjustment with which most are not familiar.

    That's why Double Double Bonus Poker is the most popular variant nowadays. Casinos realized that most people have no clue that they need to make major strategy adjustments, so they offer the game and clean up. I saw a ton of people playing it in Laughlin, and I can guarantee that like 90% had no clue how to play differently than Jacks or Better.

    The promotion I had was giving me 10x RCs, meaning I was earning 25 cents in RCs for every $25 coin in. This is essentially a 1% rebate, which makes the game slightly +EV. Even if you want to say that RCs aren't actually worth full value because they can only be spent at Caesar's properties (and can only be cashed into freeplay at 1:1.25 ratio), it's still a good situation if you want to earn tier points.
    So I looked into this a few months ago, the 9/6 JorB seemed like the only one that you could use common sense/poker skills to understand which to hold, etc. I'd need to brush up, but one of those sites has a test game for like $ 9 a month and I did get to 99.9 % accuracy.


    Once I realized how to see the pay outs, and what is a good pay out, I could not believe how many machines are just total rip offs.
    I don't think I've seen one in California that has a decent pay out. Now Reno seems to have a lot, so I'm surprised Laughlin doesn't.

    In fact, I found a $ 1 machine in Reno, that has a 9/6 payout for Jacks or Better, then has a 4500 payout for a Royal, where 4000 is supposed to be in line w/ the top payout, not sure how much it changes the EV, but it can't hurt.

    Now Druff you said you played 2000 hands, so I'm assuming that was the game plan to play 50k ($5 x 5 coins x 2000) no matter what happens.
    This is what I don't get.
    I get how to figure out how much coin in it takes to get to each tier, etc,
    what I don't get it how to keep track of how many hands I'm playing per session.
    I've love to do what you did there (on a MUCH MUCH smaller scale) but one pair of J's and my count is off.

    Some machines make it real easy, and I've only played $ 1 machines and lower so maybe all the $ 5 machines are set up to track, but not all the $ 1 are and it gets confusing. So my question is how do you keep track?

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