Table Ninja 2 (Bait and Switch)

[Erin Micunt]

Not as big as some other scams but thought it deserved attention. The program table ninja which is an additional piece of poker software run with holdem manager just released a new version with a monthly subscription price. Besides their price being insanely high they announce they are discontinuing service on their main original service which promised a LIFETIME GUARANTEE.

A rep tried to spin their lifetime guarantee as this.

Hi,

It is pretty standard in the software industry for one time purchases to have a life span, while we have done our best to accommodate users who purchased later in that lifespan with options to get a refund for users purchasing after Feb 5th and also free months if you choose to upgrade. We are sympathetic to people who have had less time than others and if you feel your case needs attention we will certainly be happy to discuss it with you so you can email support@tableninja.com.

Basically it is a money grab as the original users paid a one time fee and owe no more payments. So they add a feature or two call it brand new and go from charging a one time $60 fee to a $20 monthly fee and tell you that the original software no longer will work.

There's more to the story but that is the basic summary.
For more info and customer outrage you can pick up the story in their support thread. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16.../index591.html
Starts middle of the page.

[pavoe]

Not sure if you should call this a scam. I mean it is pretty standard as the TN guy said in his post.

After Holdem Manager (HEM) released the second version they also stopped a lot of the support for the first version.
For example HEM2 does not support Speedpoker on the Ipoker network.

I have not looked into the changes between TN1 and TN2 but as far as the changes between HEM1 and HEM2 go, it is a big improvement. If you want to have a top support software for poker you have to pay for it.

When I bought TN1 a few years back I think I paid 20$ or something like that, even the 60$ they charge ATM for it is ridiculously cheap IMO if you play a decent amount. Same goes for HEM, I think a much higher price would be justified.

[Erin Micunt]

Not true, not only does holdem manger 1 still get support its actually better in my opinion. I prefer it over the second version. In that case you weren't FORCED to upgrade because if you didn't your software would still work. Here your software will be useless within a month with not being able to do anything about it.

You also touched on something else people were complaining about. Like you many people bought it when it was $20. They were forced to pay another $60 at some point under the gaur entree that this additional payment gave them lifetime upgrades with no additional payments. Which now can be seen is clearly not the case.

[pavoe]

HEM2 does not get the full support otherwise Speedpoker would be supported, right?

And HEM2 is a huge improvement (vs hero stats, note caddy...) but everyone is entilted to their own opinion.

That the players who had paid 20$ had to pay more afterwards is big joke, did not know that. I do not use TN since a year or so. You are absolutly right in that point.

[BeerAndPoker]

I bought both HEM and Table Ninja back in the day when I could play on Stars and Tilt as an American. They are both just about worthless to me now but I remember having lifetime updates which is great but I would imagine in their terms they have some clause of making a full new version where they will stop/minimally update it.

LOL at a monthly subscription to Table Ninja 2. Talk about pure greed when they sold the first version for free lifetime updates around $40-70 range (I can't recall the exact price).

[nick-pokerfuse]

Not sure if you should call this a scam. I mean it is pretty standard as the TN guy said in his post.

It's pretty standard to charge more for new versions and to stop support for of old versions.

It's not standard to promote software as having a "LIFETIME GUARANTEE", then to stop supporting it. If that's truly the case, I would think all v1 purchases have the right to a refund.

Fwiw i think the guy can charge anything he wants, if he thinks its worth $20 a month then good for him. But if he's genuinely sold software as being guaranteed for life (which is a pretty bad biz offer to make, considering the amount of upkeeping third-party software has) but plans to no longer support it (i.e. if it breaks with a client update and there's no software update to accommodate it) then absolutely v1 purchasers have a right to a refund. That's what a lifetime guarantee means.

The guy does say he'll be accommodating to requests. Have you asked for a refund?

[BeerAndPoker]

Keep us updated if anyone requests for a refund because I'd love one on this technicality for some program I haven't been able to use since Black Friday as an American.

[BetCheckBet]

Huge ripoff

I paid for table ninja then had to pay extra a couple years ago when I realized they charge for updates. I paid lifetime gurantee with assumption that as long as company was running the software there would be updates.

240 a year fee for the new table ninja is a total joke as well.

Total BS