Buyers galore, and virtually no sellers.
Yet, the group of buyers who ARE buying large quantities of coins will not chase coins at all?
This is NOT how a legit exchange works, the buyers would 100% chase what they perceive as value and push up the price.
Recent snapshot.
Just 26 coins available and the price would be $142 an nobody buying them LOL but big buyers wanting 1,000 sitting just behind.
I picked this 24 hours before this 'final play' happened.
I've been watching very carefully and I can say without doubt there is very few panicked sellers on Mt Gox.
The dumps are being performed by the management to push the price down without doubt.
All these tiny orders immediately filling the holes is blatant manipulation.
Watch when they make a buy, they'll fill a pile of buy orders and then a moment later a large sell order will push the price straight back down, and all these tiny <.01 orders will fill the void.
The buy orders might only be 5 or 10 coins, then instantly someone will unload many more often 50-100.
This selling in FAKE!
Have they finally finished?
$160 and the dumps have stopped... for now.
Nope, another dump just as the price hit $160
Probably going to rinse and repeat trying to encourage people to sell.
When will it stop?
Salty, a few questions for you, because I am very intrigued by your theories here.
First, where are you finding those price charts you're posting? I'd like to look at that, too.
Next, if I'm following you, it seems you believe that the following fishy things are going on:
1) The people with large buy orders don't seem interested in even slightly adjusting their price. So if someone has an order for 500 coins at $120, if all of the sellers want $121, the buyers won't budge, which you find highly unusual.
2) As soon as the price goes up, it seems a large sell order immediately follows for substantially less, thus forcing the price down again.
3) There are a lot of tiny orders (sell?) made to look like there is activity, thus validating the lower price they are trying to achieve.
Do I have this right? What do you think Gox is trying to achieve here, since it appears you're saying they are intentionally selling for less than they could get, and there aren't many real sellers they could buy from. Is this attempt to force the price way down, so they can later snap up everyone's coins for a huge discount?
Gox's freeze on withdraws got mentioned in The Economist this week. That's big time.
Well well well......
Bye, Bitcoin: Criminals Seek Other Crypto Currency
Law enforcement crackdowns, hack attacks, and market volatility drive Russian fraudsters to mint their own virtual currency systems.
When it comes to profiting from ill-gotten gains, have bitcoins become passé?
That appears to be the prevailing attitude on some leading Russian cybercrime forums, which have ditched well-known virtual currencies -- including Perfect Money and Bitcoin -- in favor of forum-specific alternatives, which administrators claim offer higher levels of anonymity, security, and reliability.
Blame the shift, at least partly, on the Justice Department's takedown of Liberty Reserve, which was a Costa Rica-based virtual currency system that sported one million users. After it was closed, criminals needed to find new ways to move money and store stolen funds -- preferably without having their profits picked off by either rivals or investigators. "Ever since the Liberty Reserve takedown in May of last year and the confiscation of all accounts by law enforcement, fraudsters have been busy finding a solid currency to which they can entrust their spoils without the risk of losing them in a bust," said RSA fraud intelligence analyst Daniel Cohen in a blog post.
Why not simply use existing virtual currency options? While Perfect Money and Bitcoin would seem to be "the obvious choices" for cybercriminals, said Cohen, "Perfect Money is of questionable background, while Bitcoin does not provide fraudsters the required level of anonymity and is not immune to seizure." For example, US prosecutors in November seized bitcoins worth more than $34.1 million from users of the "darknet" narcotics marketplace known as Silk Road.
[Target's breach has driven propoals for new ways to exchange funds, but none hit the bull's-eye. Learn Why Alternate Payment Schemes Get No Love.]
Criminals also risk having their bitcoin hordes stolen by rivals. Last week, for example, the administrator of a darknet site known as Silk Road 2 -- which, like its namesake, serves as a marketplace for buying and selling narcotics -- said that the site had been hacked, and all of its users' bitcoins stolen, the BBC reported.
According to a forum post from a Silk Road 2 administrator (who goes by "Defcon"), one of the site's vendors made off with the bitcoin haul -- worth an estimated $2.7 million -- by exploiting a recently discovered vulnerability involving transaction malleability. The heist led a number of bitcoin exchanges to suspend operations until they bolster their defenses. "I should have taken MtGox and Bitstamp's lead and disabled withdrawals as soon as the malleability issue was reported. I was slow to respond and too sceptical (sic) of the possible issue at hand," Defcon said in a forum posting.
Those bitcoin exchange suspensions have recently driven the value of a bitcoin to less than $300 on Mt Gox -- which typically handles about one-fifth of the world's bitcoin trades -- compared to the currency being valued Tuesday on other exchanges at about $630. Still, that's down from the $1,200 commanded by a bitcoin back in November.
That market volatility is likely another reason why many criminals have opted for an alternative cryptographic currency, digital currency expert Michael Jackson, a former COO at Skype, told The Register. "It suggests that criminals don't trust Bitcoin -- I hope this is because they think the police will find them, but I suspect it's more to do with the fact that they don't like volatility. Even an online dope seller wants predictability in his business."
Photo credit: zcopley.
Photo credit: zcopley.
What's arguably even better for criminals, however, is anonymity. "Buyers and sellers of crimeware services have long had anonymous handles with which to do business," said Sean Sullivan, security advisor at F-Secure Labs, via email. "Anonymity has allowed crimeware to evolve into a highly commoditized ecosystem. Having its own currency system adds another layer of anonymity."
Cybercriminals, however, are likely still using bitcoins for some purposes. "They probably aren’t avoiding bitcoins other than when it comes to buying and selling crimeware services," Sullivan said. "They are all probably invested in Bitcoin in order to move and launder 'real' money."
What's on offer for criminals seeking Bitcoin and Perfect Money alternatives? To date, RSA said it's been tracking three Russian-built currency systems -- MUSD, United Payment System, and UAPS -- all of which are tailor-made to help criminals evade law enforcement agencies. "These new internal currencies are carefully administered and secured, ensuring a high level of anonymity in transaction and hiding the user identities, making it more difficult for law enforcement to trace, block, or seize funds and accounts," RSA's Cohen said. The services allow users to deposit funds and cash out their holdings, sometimes to a prepaid credit card.
So far, the most advanced option appears to be UAPS -- a.k.a. the "First Commercial Bank" -- which first appeared more than a year ago on a Russian cybercrime forum. The currency system reportedly sports its own development team, gets frequent updates, and, per its data-retention policy, holds related data for only two months before purging it from the system.
Four different cybercrime boards, meanwhile, appear to have standardized on the United Payment System currency system. According to RSA, each board has its own exchange agent, who's overseen by a site administrator charged with keeping the dealings "honest." That approach highlights how cybercrime forums rely on members to stay straight with each other. "Doing business with crimeware suppliers is based on trust -- karma systems, feedback -- like [on] eBay," Sullivan said. "Buyers rate sellers. A currency provider will have to earn trust -- and heaven help him if he breaks that trust with a large number of cybercriminals."
The MUSD currency first appeared in November 2013. It's only being used on one forum, and it allows users to buy or sell services, as well as procure forum advertising. The currency's developers say their system offers anonymity, a built-in escrow service, and the ability to cash out the currency in person. "Two verified exchange agent services currently work with MUSD in this board, with one offering to cash out MUSD for hard currency in person at an office in Kiev, Ukraine," said Cohen.
On a related note, Russian authorities have recently been signaling that they'll crack down on users of any type of virtual currency, including bitcoins. "Citizens and legal entities risk being drawn -- even unintentionally -- into illegal activity, including laundering of money obtained through crime, as well as financing terrorism," according to a warning issued last month by Russia's central bank.
Earlier this month, Russian authorities warned that only rubles are legal tender inside Russia, and that trading in bitcoins is illegal. "Systems for anonymous payments and cybercurrencies that have gained considerable circulation -- including the most well-known, Bitcoin -- are money substitutes and cannot be used by individuals or legal entities," according to a statement by the Russian Prosecutor General's Office.
The NSA leak showed that one rogue insider can do massive damage. Use these three steps to keep your information safe from internal threats. Also in the Stop Data Leaks issue of Dark Reading: Technology is critical, but corporate culture also plays a central role in stopping a big breach. (Free registration required.)
Mathew Schwartz is a freelance writer, editor, and photographer, as well the InformationWeek information security reporter. View Full Bio
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky
"America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs
As I said before , If you really want the very best expert advise and opinons there is about bitcoin and stocks there is nothing like a 4th rate pokerforum to tell you whats up.
Anyone dealing in bitconis would be a moron not to come here for advise.
Slava Ukraini!
Screen-shots are from http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Yes, the buyers are coordinated and will not budge on their price. When you have plenty of buyers in a legit market they will ALWAYS step above the other buyers, and they will always push the price up to get their trades when so outnumbered.
I first noticed this when the price was solid @ $260 for 24 hours there was huge buy orders and virtually no sellers yet the price traded in an unusually thin band.
No not always, sometimes they let the price drift upwards then dump plenty to make it drop back down, but usually when they buy it's followed with selling "to themselves" to push the price back down immediately.
Yes, plenty of small orders are filling the voids after they buy the scared money, so quickly it's obviousy done automatically by a computer.
I reckon the entire Gox market is a charade, there is virtually no cash on the market belonging to genuine buyers and mostly people holding coins only. No serious buyers were putting cash on Gox for months due to the "premium price" on Gox compared to other exchanges and cash withdrawals were choked. People were much more concerned with getting their cash off Gox then depositing to purchase at a higher price.
This maleability issue has mostly effected transfers of BTC off the site, keeping coins on Gox after being in limbo for weeks. And mainly larger parcels of coins. (laughable to think they resent large parcels)
I'm thinking it's all planned and not merely an opportunity that presented. Wouln't be surprised if the eastern europeans are in on this too.
They have induced fear and are buying from everyone who is scared... the real price of a BTC is over $600. The other exchanges are low because of this panic.
Yes, they want your coins cheap and they can even sell them on the other exchanges straight away, even use coins in cold storage to fund their buying too.
Also recurring parcels.
At the moment it's 0.06 in the sell list.
And buyers wanting 0.611 0.61 0.612 & 0.613
Just a bit odd.... parcel sizes 0.011 and 0.012 repeat a lot too.
Not proof, but an oddity that fits my ideas on what is happening.
These 0.06 parcels are even obviously stacked on top of each other .12 0.18 0.24
Trading Magic The Gathering Cards was the perfect training ground for becoming the largest Bitcoin exchange in the world. Kinda surprised they got all fucked up given their vast business experience.
You would expect this from Pokemon players but....
Damn, I had plenty of opportunity to scoop at $530'ish. Just wanted more. 530 means nothing on the chart IMO. BTC is still under $600 support and above $500. I just feel it needs to test that $500 low and prove itself.
Last edited by Sanlmar; 02-22-2014 at 06:59 AM.
I am curious Salty why you are investing effort watching Gox. It's a fascinating story, but it's done.
Gox will hurt BTC image - at least short term. Some US Senator or the Fed will call for regulation or a ban. That's the story, IMO.
Love the Forensic work and keep it up but hasn't that ship sailed?
I think this Gox fear has pulled the price down on other exchanges between $100-$150
Considering all the shenanigans it's holding quite well.
Curiosity, trying to figure exactly what they're doing.
Gox is finished, they'll scoop enough cash to disappear happy.
Of course it has. Gox was a catalyst that has hurt the chart. The inexorable fall to $400 - $500 or more as this bubble unwinds probable could have been caused by any number of things. Gox simply was the news that triggered another wave of selling. It could have been another Governement outcry or any number of boogeymen.
In the vein of declining Bitcoin interest. I have noticed guys who used to post Bitcoin charts & commentary are turning up absent or post much less frequently.
Last edited by Sanlmar; 02-22-2014 at 03:07 PM.
Buyers galore, and virtually no sellers.
Yet, the group of buyers who ARE buying large quantities of coins will not chase coins at all?
This is NOT how a legit exchange works, the buyers would 100% chase what they perceive as value and push up the price.
Recent snapshot.
Just 26 coins available and the price would be $142 an nobody buying them LOL but big buyers wanting 1,000 sitting just behind.
You really have no idea what you are talking about. I have traded on every major exchange (CME/CBOT/CBOE/LIFFE/DAX/SGX/NIK) as an options market maker and what you are saying has no grounds in reality. People leave resting bids in ALL the time, and your value BS is nonsense. The fact that there is no resting offers, means exactly one thing, the sellers are crossing the market and hitting the bid, hence the market has lots of downward pressure. Unless people place market bids that are larger than the market depth the market doesn't move up, period. The liquidity on these exchanges are minimal, there are no designated market makers, I even reached out to Buttercoin on behalf of my company(a large proprietary trading firm in Chicago that is a designated MM in a bunch of asset classes), and they literally have no idea how to run an exchange, but they are google backed so they think they know what they are doing.
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