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Thread: Bitcoins are officially donkdown

  1. #1021
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    MtGox down to $375.

    Everywhere else down to the 550-570 range.

    The difference between this and other crashes is that this one is for a concrete reason (bitcoin flaw), rather than just market corrections or some unfavorable news development.

    I don't think there will be an appreciable recovery until this is fixed, and people can transfer off Gox and bitstamp.

     
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  2. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Our initial investigations indicate that a vendor exploited a recently discovered vulnerability in the Bitcoin protocol known as "transaction malleability" to repeatedly withdraw coins from our system until it was completely empty....This attack hit us at the worst possible time. We were planning on re-launching the new auto-finalize and Dispute Center this past weekend, and our projections of order finalization volume indicated that we would need the community's full balance in hot storage. In retrospect this was incredibly foolish, and I take full responsibility for this decision.

    The issue of transaction malleability is one that’s thrown the entire Bitcoin community into chaos in recent days. According to Coindesk, ‟it’s an attack that lets someone change the unique ID of a bitcoin transaction before it is confirmed on the bitcoin network. The change makes it possible for someone to pretend that a transaction didn’t happen, if all the right conditions are in place.”

    Conducted on a mass scale, as occurred earlier this week when an unknown entity used the technique to launch a coordinated denial of service attack on a number of Bitcoin exchanges around the world.

    The attack caused MtGox, the single most high-profile Bitcoin exchange in existence, to temporarily halt all withdrawals until the issue of transaction malleability was dealt with. Others exchanges, such as the Slovenia-based Bitstamp, have followed suit.

    In his or her note, Defcon admitted that the fault for the hack attack lays at the feet of the site’s operators. ‟I have failed you as a leader, and am completely devastated by today's discoveries,” Defcon wrote. ‟I should have taken MtGox and Bitstamp's lead and disabled withdrawals as soon as the malleability issue was reported. I was slow to respond and too skeptical of the possible issue at hand. It is a crushing blow. I cannot find the words to express how deeply I want this movement to be safe from the very threats I just watched materialize during my watch.”

    Defcon wrote that there are currently efforts underway to track down the thief.

    Even so, there are some who question Defcon’s version of events. In a post to Reddit’s r/Bitcoin forum, wrote a post charging that, ‟it is clear that Silk Road 2 funds were stolen by the operators.”

    Online black markets like Silk Road 2 have long been targets for hackers. Last December, hackers who targeted the online wallets of Sheep Marketplace stole over $100 million in Bitcoin the days before the marketplace shut down entirely.
    Don't believe Defcom, he's used this as an excuse to steal everyones balances.
    Has this issue of malleability actually resulted in the theft of coins from Bitstamp and Gox?

  3. #1023
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Buying after three pretty bad candles looking for a bounce is not a bad thing. Retracements are a god given right. Fibonacci was god.

    It is remarkable to me that some are only now looking to open accounts and dabble. Does it appear safer now for some reason that is not apparent to me?

    In the big picture, isnt this just the nature of the unwinding of a bubble? We are coming down from Magic Mountain - only this time your mom won't be at the exit to meet you and wipe the vomit off your shirt.

    Spot me one person who is or was investing for fundamental reasons. The forums, news and buyers were all folks looking for a quick profit. Many binked. Golf clap. It was speculation stupid! It was a bubble. Doesn't mean it was a bad thing. But BTC will pay for the fun on the back end.

    Naturally, the gusto that was present a few months ago as it ran to 1200 isn't there any longer. That will never be matched again. Doubts are harbored by everyone where they almost didn't exist before during the frenzy. Doubts are increasing with every failed attempt at a new high.

    The progressive increase in the doubters and those who just quit the game will not help Bitcoins price.

    Mt Gox, the Russians, hackers and the Feds.... lyrics to a Warren Zevon song. Noise. The price and the chart have built all that in (you never have all the insider news anyway). Look at the chart and decide. Once BTC lost $675 - regardless of the reason, people got scared. They were underwater. A whole month of people who bought between $750 & $850 were fucked. Sometimes the failing confidence just needs an excuse to sell.

    So IMO if you are speculating keep you stops tight and be satisfied with a quick scalp. Else just sit back and partake in the schadenfreude of folks bleeding to death.

    That long channel between $750 - 850 really chilled everyone's fears and looks like a trap in retrospect. Did the Winkelvii unwind their position during this phase?

    Bitcoins can still be used to buy Beanie Babies on Overstock.

    Edit: will probably bounce hard off $500 if we get there. Most nervous holders will have given up by then.
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 02-14-2014 at 12:32 AM.

  4. #1024
    Diamond PLOL's Avatar
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    Waiting for $200, yo

     
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    TRUMP 2024!

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    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

  5. #1025
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty_Aus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Our initial investigations indicate that a vendor exploited a recently discovered vulnerability in the Bitcoin protocol known as "transaction malleability" to repeatedly withdraw coins from our system until it was completely empty....This attack hit us at the worst possible time. We were planning on re-launching the new auto-finalize and Dispute Center this past weekend, and our projections of order finalization volume indicated that we would need the community's full balance in hot storage. In retrospect this was incredibly foolish, and I take full responsibility for this decision.

    The issue of transaction malleability is one that’s thrown the entire Bitcoin community into chaos in recent days. According to Coindesk, ‟it’s an attack that lets someone change the unique ID of a bitcoin transaction before it is confirmed on the bitcoin network. The change makes it possible for someone to pretend that a transaction didn’t happen, if all the right conditions are in place.”

    Conducted on a mass scale, as occurred earlier this week when an unknown entity used the technique to launch a coordinated denial of service attack on a number of Bitcoin exchanges around the world.

    The attack caused MtGox, the single most high-profile Bitcoin exchange in existence, to temporarily halt all withdrawals until the issue of transaction malleability was dealt with. Others exchanges, such as the Slovenia-based Bitstamp, have followed suit.

    In his or her note, Defcon admitted that the fault for the hack attack lays at the feet of the site’s operators. ‟I have failed you as a leader, and am completely devastated by today's discoveries,” Defcon wrote. ‟I should have taken MtGox and Bitstamp's lead and disabled withdrawals as soon as the malleability issue was reported. I was slow to respond and too skeptical of the possible issue at hand. It is a crushing blow. I cannot find the words to express how deeply I want this movement to be safe from the very threats I just watched materialize during my watch.”

    Defcon wrote that there are currently efforts underway to track down the thief.

    Even so, there are some who question Defcon’s version of events. In a post to Reddit’s r/Bitcoin forum, wrote a post charging that, ‟it is clear that Silk Road 2 funds were stolen by the operators.”

    Online black markets like Silk Road 2 have long been targets for hackers. Last December, hackers who targeted the online wallets of Sheep Marketplace stole over $100 million in Bitcoin the days before the marketplace shut down entirely.
    Don't believe Defcom, he's used this as an excuse to steal everyones balances.
    Has this issue of malleability actually resulted in the theft of coins from Bitstamp and Gox?


    Gox shut down their system because they discovered abuse of malleability had generated a discrepancy in their btc balances.

    I was under the impression that this was a localized issue produced by shitty hybrid code unique to their implementation.

    Im not 100% convinced the issue described by Defcon is the same one referred to by Gox, or that the Defcon issue is at all valid.

    In fact, if I was a wagering man, I would say Defcon hired a crew to saturate the entire pan-exchange system while he exfiltrated the site balance through a series of tumblers.

     
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      Sanlmar: OP is god rep
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  6. #1026
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Sonatine

    So if some quantum computer was put in place to secure all trading and tracking the price resumes it's climb to the heavens?

    The speculators are exhausted. These incidents will be followed by Fed noise or some other bogeyman. The hits will keep on coming. Can the market shrug them off? Not during a bubble unwinding.

    A fascinating hack. A good read. Admire the lyric way you explain them. But this news is just a mile marker on the downward slope.

    I gather somehow that you really don't give two shits about Bitcoin price. Am I right? Just a good intellectual exercise?

    Don't get me wrong. Virtual currency is here to stay. Its just a question of price.

  7. #1027
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    I dont think virtual currency is here to stay in the slightest.

    The only thing keeping bitcoin and everything else up is the will power and whimsey of its principle stake holders.

    Allow me to sum up the entirety of the virtual currency system as it stands:





    Thats it.

    Seriously thats it.

    The global financial system is the only government Man has ever had, and arguably the backbone of its religions as well. Jesus was doing fine until he fucked with the money lenders in the temple. Nothing has changed.

    Once the exchanges stabilize, and handful of whales will jack the price up through a series of orchestrated trades. Again. And still all bitcoin will be is a virtual Visa gift card with a bunch of fancy math behind it. People think that math makes bitcoins what they are. Quite the opposite, all that math and theory is simply smoke and mirrors in front the exact same thing you buy at the 7-11; a gift card.

    The one difference between a gift card and a bitcoin is that the gift card's currency is backed by not just one government but effectively by all governments. So it has a reasonably static value.

    If there is a "virtual currency" waiting to be born, it will be born by a nation state, and it will be directly backed by some form of currency, be it bonds or oil reserves or diamonds or big titted virgins. What it wont be is some mathematic riddle, which has absolutely no value to anyone, ever.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  8. #1028
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    A quantum computer running things isnt going to help if that quantum computer's influence doesnt extend into and across the principle financial exchange infrastructure.

    And what we are one EMP away from discovering is what a terrible idea that is going to turn out to be.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  9. #1029
    Gold Salty_Aus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    I dont think virtual currency is here to stay in the slightest.

    The only thing keeping bitcoin and everything else up is the will power and whimsey of its principle stake holders.

    Allow me to sum up the entirety of the virtual currency system as it stands:





    Thats it.

    Seriously thats it.

    The global financial system is the only government Man has ever had, and arguably the backbone of its religions as well. Jesus was doing fine until he fucked with the money lenders in the temple. Nothing has changed.

    Once the exchanges stabilize, and handful of whales will jack the price up through a series of orchestrated trades. Again. And still all bitcoin will be is a virtual Visa gift card with a bunch of fancy math behind it. People think that math makes bitcoins what they are. Quite the opposite, all that math and theory is simply smoke and mirrors in front the exact same thing you buy at the 7-11; a gift card.

    The one difference between a gift card and a bitcoin is that the gift card's currency is backed by not just one government but effectively by all governments. So it has a reasonably static value.

    If there is a "virtual currency" waiting to be born, it will be born by a nation state, and it will be directly backed by some form of currency, be it bonds or oil reserves or diamonds or big titted virgins. What it wont be is some mathematic riddle, which has absolutely no value to anyone, ever.
    Agree, they have no real value.

    I still think this is just the beginning, they will recover and bounce back many more times before this ride is over.

  10. #1030
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Im inclined to agree.

    I think the end will look like that pivotal moment in Wolf of Wall Street where the Steve Madden panics and sells off his stock.

    One of the big whales is going to lose this game of chicken and liquidate a huge volume and the others are going to see that the party is over and its going to be like one domino falling after another. The market is going to quickly reach a tipping point where there are a surplus of coins and no one to buy them, and the little people are going to realize that 3% of their initial investment is better than 0% of their initial investment, and thats going to be that.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  11. #1031
    Platinum JUSTIFIEDhomicide's Avatar
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    Are you invested in bitcoins sonatine?
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  12. #1032
    Platinum Muck Ficon's Avatar
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    Just waiting for Bitcoins to crash and burn. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. I have to admit, I'm surprised at how long they've managed to hold up.

     
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  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muck Ficon View Post
    Just waiting for Bitcoins to crash and burn. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. I have to admit, I'm surprised at how long they've managed to hold up.

    Same here.

    I was guessing that due to their ability to allow people move significant amounts of "money" anonymously, some very wealthy individuals would do ANYTHING to keep this alive and strong so that it increases their profits exponentially.

  14. #1034
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicide View Post
    Are you invested in bitcoins sonatine?
    I tried to purchase about half a bitcoin some months ago in the interests of day trading these swings but between the %30 transaction fees just to get the fucking money to an exchange and the 3% per trade, I finally just said fuck it and let it ride on LTC and dogecoins, which I continue to mine.

    I consider none of it a viable long term strat and simply hope to get lucky and get out a house or two richer at some point and get out.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  15. #1035
    Platinum garrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicide View Post
    Are you invested in bitcoins sonatine?

    rofl, hof

  16. #1036
    Platinum JUSTIFIEDhomicide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicide View Post
    Are you invested in bitcoins sonatine?
    I tried to purchase about half a bitcoin some months ago in the interests of day trading these swings but between the %30 transaction fees just to get the fucking money to an exchange and the 3% per trade, I finally just said fuck it and let it ride on LTC and dogecoins, which I continue to mine.

    I consider none of it a viable long term strat and simply hope to get lucky and get out a house or two richer at some point and get out.

    Every time I hear someone say mining bitcoins I picture playing Ultima Online and sitting there clicking the mouse over and over with a pick axe in my character's hand. Just mining away at the caves to collect ignots so I could black smith some dope armour for myself.


    End of complete nerd rant
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    "Only God can judge me. So either LOVE ME or LEAVE ME ALONE"


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  17. #1037
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    I literally have a milk crate sitting in a closet with a motherboard, power supply, and video card in it. Such is my whimsey.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  18. #1038
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    whats a proper site to find what the prices is? used to look mtgox but from what read its shit the bed.

  19. #1039
    One Percenter Pooh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    I literally have a milk crate sitting in a closet with a motherboard, power supply, and video card in it. Such is my whimsey.
    Post pics

  20. #1040
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    I literally have a milk crate sitting in a closet with a motherboard, power supply, and video card in it. Such is my whimsey.
    Post pics



    i sold one of the vid cards.

     
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    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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