Bitcoins are officially donkdown

[Scandinavian Bob]

i wonder how many bitcoins are 'lost'.. eg 'holy shit i forgot my wallet password' type lost.

im guessing its a not-insignificant percent.

About 4 million estimated are gone.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a8091851.html

[donkdowndonedied]

i wonder how many bitcoins are 'lost'.. eg 'holy shit i forgot my wallet password' type lost.

im guessing its a not-insignificant percent.

A consulting group analyzed this stuff and the number was very large, but only a guess. Basically there are a ton of 50 BTC mined blocks and such that have never moved. No one really knows if the keys are still known by anyone.

This is more an argument for BTC being underpriced if anything and a warning to those who might lose their keys elsewhere.

[sonatine]

i wonder how many bitcoins are 'lost'.. eg 'holy shit i forgot my wallet password' type lost.

im guessing its a not-insignificant percent.

A consulting group analyzed this stuff and the number was very large, but only a guess. Basically there are a ton of 50 BTC mined blocks and such that have never moved. No one really knows if the keys are still known by anyone.

This is more an argument for BTC being underpriced if anything and a warning to those who might lose their keys elsewhere.

nod, i was just marveling at how only recently did people really start taking wallet integrity/security seriously, and how even today, you have burgers like nicehash doing it wrong to the tune of an 85.2m USD headshot.

and for every nicehash there are the hundreds if not thousands of people who fat fingered their key when writing it down, or got their laptop stolen out of their car, or left the usb on an airplane, or had a fire in their apartment, or just neglected to hire anyone to do a recovery on a failed hard drive because they thought a few 50 btc blocks would be worth a 10th the cost.

i imagine they dont sleep well.

[Forum Wars]

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

translation: 'we're not making hundreds of millions on this so go back into our rigged stock market game.'

[Forum Wars]

translation: 'we're not making hundreds of millions on this so go back into our rigged stock market game.'

Well, it is rigged, but it is pretty stupid to pay $16,000 or 19,000 or whatever for 1 unit of nothing, also.

[Forum Wars]

...and I get it...the $16K or $19K is just that much of another rigged currency (USD fiat), but at least everyone in the world will take it for now and it's not being diluted too fast. I.e. it has a history. Like the NFL.

[Mintjewlips]

Bitcoin is eloquently described dogshit....

[monsterj]

A consulting group analyzed this stuff and the number was very large, but only a guess. Basically there are a ton of 50 BTC mined blocks and such that have never moved. No one really knows if the keys are still known by anyone.

This is more an argument for BTC being underpriced if anything and a warning to those who might lose their keys elsewhere.

nod, i was just marveling at how only recently did people really start taking wallet integrity/security seriously, and how even today, you have burgers like nicehash doing it wrong to the tune of an 85.2m USD headshot.

and for every nicehash there are the hundreds if not thousands of people who fat fingered their key when writing it down, or got their laptop stolen out of their car, or left the usb on an airplane, or had a fire in their apartment, or just neglected to hire anyone to do a recovery on a failed hard drive because they thought a few 50 btc blocks would be worth a 10th the cost.

i imagine they dont sleep well.

I made this argument several years ago at the Texas Bitcoin conference, I argued that eventually, in the long term, every BTC will be lost. Most people looked at me like I was crazy and that "no it would NEVER happen to me!". This fundamentally means that if there is any demand for BTC, the price for BTC will go up as supply will, based on natural attrition and more difficulty mining, go down.

[Dan Druff]

I don't understand these exchanges.

Gemini actually got within about 200 of the Bitstamp value, which was slightly more than 1% difference. Actually reasonable. Stayed between 200 and 400 difference all through the late night.

Now, with Bitstamp still at about the same as it was overnight (16600s), Gemini has it at 17400 and Coinbase 17700.

What's the deal here? Is it just American idiots feeding into the frenzy during the day, and the more niggardly bitcoin purchaser being awake overnight?

[GringoStar]

i wonder how many bitcoins are 'lost'.. eg 'holy shit i forgot my wallet password' type lost.

im guessing its a not-insignificant percent.

There are probably many that were lost, but also a serious amount that are purposely abandoned, especially surrounding the fall of SilkRoad, as well as ones that are untouched due to prison time or death.

I would bet that there is a lot of value sitting around from disrupted child porn rings, as well as hard drugs and guns.

[sonatine]

i wonder how many bitcoins are 'lost'.. eg 'holy shit i forgot my wallet password' type lost.

im guessing its a not-insignificant percent.

There are probably man who are lost, but also a serious amount that are purposely abandoned, especially surrounding the fall of SilkRoad.

I would bet that there is a lot of value sitting around from disrupted child porn rings, as well as hard rugs and guns.

My understanding is that its SOP for law enforcement to confiscate coins in CP/drug raids.. but yeah I guess with hard rugs all bets are off.

[Belly Buster]

I don't understand these exchanges.

Gemini actually got within about 200 of the Bitstamp value, which was slightly more than 1% difference. Actually reasonable. Stayed between 200 and 400 difference all through the late night.

Now, with Bitstamp still at about the same as it was overnight (16600s), Gemini has it at 17400 and Coinbase 17700.

What's the deal here? Is it just American idiots feeding into the frenzy during the day, and the more niggardly bitcoin purchaser being awake overnight?

You have to understand that the exchanges have nothing to do with the price. The exchanges just bring buyers and sellers together. Prices are set when a trade is done. Sometimes there can be wide bid offer spreads which can mean that the price is both 17400 and 17700 at the same time, if the highest bid is 17400 and the highest offer is 17700, then the price will be set to the last trade done.

If there's a wide differential between exchanges then there is an arbitrage opportunity which no doubt someone will spot and take advantage of, and this will help keep prices broadly aligned.

[OSA]

I can believe I am asking this but what's the withdrawal time/process for litecoin right now if you are using coinbase?

[GringoStar]

There are probably man who are lost, but also a serious amount that are purposely abandoned, especially surrounding the fall of SilkRoad.

I would bet that there is a lot of value sitting around from disrupted child porn rings, as well as hard rugs and guns.

My understanding is that its SOP for law enforcement to confiscate coins in CP/drug raids.. but yeah I guess with hard rugs all bets are off.

They can confiscate coins that they can find, but they are difficult to trace and even harder to use without a key. The irony may be that this state-free currency may have law enforcement wings of numerous governments among the global majority share-holders.

I would bet that the US, China, Russia, Bulgaria, and Japan have more BTC in "evidence" than any of these "thought-leaders" or cryto enthusiasts who claim to be heavily invested.

[OSA]

Also curious how credit card deposits work with chargebacks, and such.

Now that's truly risk free investments.

[donkdowndonedied]

Also curious how credit card deposits work with chargebacks, and such.

Now that's truly risk free investments.

Lol you thieving bum.

[Dan Druff]

I don't understand these exchanges.

Gemini actually got within about 200 of the Bitstamp value, which was slightly more than 1% difference. Actually reasonable. Stayed between 200 and 400 difference all through the late night.

Now, with Bitstamp still at about the same as it was overnight (16600s), Gemini has it at 17400 and Coinbase 17700.

What's the deal here? Is it just American idiots feeding into the frenzy during the day, and the more niggardly bitcoin purchaser being awake overnight?

You have to understand that the exchanges have nothing to do with the price. The exchanges just bring buyers and sellers together. Prices are set when a trade is done. Sometimes there can be wide bid offer spreads which can mean that the price is both 17400 and 17700 at the same time, if the highest bid is 17400 and the highest offer is 17700, then the price will be set to the last trade done.

If there's a wide differential between exchanges then there is an arbitrage opportunity which no doubt someone will spot and take advantage of, and this will help keep prices broadly aligned.

Oh I know this, except at least on Gemini, the buy/sell gap is very small typically.

I'm just wondering why so many people are buying in way over the generally accepted value on these exchanges, and then other times it's not as egregious.

I realize many of the buyers are not planning upon immediately purchasing something with them like I am, so that makes them care less about the price they're buying in, but still, that's a hell of a spread unless you're just planning upon buying, holding, and selling back on the same exchange you used to buy in.

[Dan Druff]

Also from following it last night, the price on Gemini really did go up and down pretty consistently with the Bitstamp price, it was just a matter of how much it went up or down.

So these price movements are not independent of one another, even when the movements are small.

[monsterj]

I don't understand these exchanges.

Gemini actually got within about 200 of the Bitstamp value, which was slightly more than 1% difference. Actually reasonable. Stayed between 200 and 400 difference all through the late night.

Now, with Bitstamp still at about the same as it was overnight (16600s), Gemini has it at 17400 and Coinbase 17700.

What's the deal here? Is it just American idiots feeding into the frenzy during the day, and the more niggardly bitcoin purchaser being awake overnight?

You have to understand that the exchanges have nothing to do with the price. The exchanges just bring buyers and sellers together. Prices are set when a trade is done. Sometimes there can be wide bid offer spreads which can mean that the price is both 17400 and 17700 at the same time, if the highest bid is 17400 and the highest offer is 17700, then the price will be set to the last trade done.

If there's a wide differential between exchanges then there is an arbitrage opportunity which no doubt someone will spot and take advantage of, and this will help keep prices broadly aligned.

Also, some markets quote mid market vs last trade. And at night those differences can be huge.