The retreat Mizrachi is referencing appears to be an ISPT thing: http://www.pokernews.com/news/2013/0...tour-14908.htm
The retreat Mizrachi is referencing appears to be an ISPT thing: http://www.pokernews.com/news/2013/0...tour-14908.htm
I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets
Good Job calling them out Druff. Some of them think they are really slick with their responses.
It is an ISPT thing, but it's no coincidence that this year's Lock retreat is in Portugal, especially given their close association with the fail ISPT.Originally Posted by Steve-O
Oh, and...
BTW, I've been very active on 2+2 regarding Lock (as "Kilowatt"). They finally had their ads taken off by Mason & company.
Here is Mason's post:
Here is my response:
I really do believe Mason handled it well. I wasn't kissing ass.
Anyway, this new rep is going to be useless, albeit more polite.
Book it.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...poker-1328233/
What kind of compensation do these lock pros get that they are still holding on to a sinking ship? Is it cuz they get some extra type stuff for the wsop coming up so they are just trying to survive til after that?
Listen to this shit
From Melanie Weisner:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...1/index11.html
Hi guys,
These are all my own views/ opinions and not a statement from Lock.
My thread in Marketplace
I'll preface this post by saying I am truly let down by some of the posters here. I'm speaking to those who have brought their issues with Lock into a personal marketplace thread. Asking pros to comment on the Lock situation, while certainly out of place in marketplace, is not out of line in general. But suggesting that because of Lock's operational issues, my credibility in marketplace is actually in question is ludicrous. Every person posting in that thread knows full well I have a pristine marketplace record over years of buying and selling action regardless of sponsorship. Even more importantly, they know that nearly everyone in the top tier of known players would and have vouched for me. Those that don't know that can easily ascertain that information. I suspect not one of them is truly delusional enough to think that my wearing a Lock patch is in any way tantamount to whether or not I am a person who can be trusted with a tournament investment.
Furthermore, the situation on marketplace is, and has always been, that any person has a right to accept and refuse payment types as they see fit. Representing a site does not mean you are obligated to accept payment for private action on that site, nor does not doing so indicate lack of integrity. Not offering it as a payment option does not represent a lack of faith in the site--it is simply whatever the seller deems most convenient at the time, as getting together money to buy in for a live event from multiple sources is pretty tedious. In this personal case, I chose not to accept Lock, Bitcoin, Intertops, Carbon, Party, 888, or any other site or online poker currency aside from the site that allows buying in through the client. I do not accept Lock or any of those other methods as I cannot receive EPT winnings via them, and therefore will not send out winnings via them. Clear and simple.
Because of that (in response to one of the players posting) it is, in fact, unreasonable for people to claim that the harassment regarding Lock is under some purely well-intentioned desire for "some disclosure" about a player asking to be staked and her sponsorship. There is nothing undisclosed with regard to my position. I am a pro for Lock and have been for a year and a half. My tournament history and results are available publicly. I am extremely well known within the poker community, and have been so for years. I often sell action on 2+2, with a flawless history of both buying and selling over five years on the site. The questions about the transparency of the operations of Lock Poker and its current issues, while extremely important right now in the poker world, are completely inappropriate under the guise of "addressing a player's integrity in marketplace," given the very available information on just that.
I have a lot of faith in the 2+2 community, and I don't believe that most of you actually think interrogating me about my sponsorship is actually related to my trustworthiness to sell action. What I do believe is that the community wants all the issues Lock is currently facing addressed (and rightfully so), and that some of you have gone so long in a state of frustration with little to no contact from the company that you are trying to get your voices heard in any way possible. I'm disappointed with the witch hunt attitude that 2+2 posters have taken, and while I recognize the frustration, there are better channels to do it through. But ignoring the inappropriate way it has been handled, I understand how badly the community has been let down by Lock (and especially the lack of official communication) and therefore will try to outline as much of the pro situation as I currently can.
Lock Representation
Why do the pros represent Lock? Why do we continue to be ambassadors for a site that is causing so many problems for the poker community with the cashout delays and rumors of insolvency? The implication is that we're just using our names and brands in order to selfishly promote, and take a paycheck from, a site that is screwing over their players.
But the truth is, jumping ship, breaking contract, and leaving Lock would accomplish absolutely nothing except dissolving important channels that the site has to the community, which are damned important channels to maintain in order for any of these problems to be rectified. No pro in his/her ethical right mind should spend years promoting a site, signing their friends and peers up through it, and then decide to peace out when issues arise and the going gets tough. I personally feel responsible for encouraging many players to join the site, and the other pros and I feel that we have a responsibility to all those players who signed up under us in good faith, making it unacceptable to abandon our responsibilities here rather than work to improve the situation.
The cashout situation and the role of Lock Pros
Many 2+2ers seem to be unaware of this, but the pro team is mostly part of marketing and not involved in any important financial transactions or operations with regards to assets. Despite our lack of involvement in the back-end of things, I know that all the pros have wanted to speak to the issue for some time, and have only waited this long in order to gather some real information about the current status of operations. We've spent a lot of time recently working on getting to the bottom of things. The entire Lock pro team met today in order to hash out all these issues and find solutions and information on what the future holds and what kind of improvements can be made, on what scale, and in what timeframe. Every one of the pros on the team--Moorman, Stout, Annette, myself--comes from a grinding background and identifies completely with the issues, especially in a post-BF world where we've seen exactly how bad it can get. Our primary concern is getting answers to the cashout issues, especially in more of a concrete fashion than "they will improve."
Now, the pros aren't and won't be privy to the specific financials of Lock, but do know for sure that Lock, as an American-facing site, faces a lot of behind-the-scenes issues with processing (not to mention the latest transfer issues, which I can confirm are 100% a true issue and have been for some time) and volume limitations on said processing, as one might expect.
Some posters complain that the pros aren't using their positions to demand answers for the players. This couldn't be farther from the truth. The pros have been instrumental in reinforcing the severity of these issues to those in charge and making damned sure that specific situations are addressed. We've been unhappy promoting the site without solid projections for improvement, have said so, and spent the last week approaching those in charge on behalf of the community, and thankfully gotten some answers. Pros have been told that a lot of the cashout issues have been resolved in the wake of the resolution of money laundering and the abuse of the transfers. As of today, we have been told that Skrill cashouts will return to what they were (1-2 weeks) for ROW. We have been told that this will return to normal by June. We've also been told that playthrough requirements will be fixed and communicated properly. This post here reinforces Lock's focus on improvement rather than promotion.
The pros have tried to get concrete info for American issues as well, but there are no concrete time frame improvements we have been given for those cashouts, as the issues facing American processing remain grossly difficult. This doesn't excuse the insanely long times or arduous cashout process, and frankly nothing does, but it isn't being ignored. The people pointing to the smaller skins paying out American players ignore the KEY fact that they process an insanely small fraction of the cashouts that Lock processes, and therefore are under far less risk when processing quickly. None of this is to say American cashouts aren't a priority--they are just subject to a lot more resistance and obstacles than ROW.
The last thing any of us want to do is make excuses for the current situation on Lock's behalf. But as far as the pros are concerned, our responsibility lies with using our positions within the company to make sure things get on the right track--not to sit idly by while things get worse, or abandon all the players who have signed up through us to Lock. We aren't happy with the status quo. Better communication is paramount. Bottom line-- we've been given some concrete timeframes at this point and we're with the players here expecting to see results based on those timeframes. If Lock can make progress here, we feel that the ship can be righted.
I double posted, I think you missed my first post, I know Lock had a retreat. I was just pointing out the plane thing was an ISPT stunt. Also ISPT is pretty well received now that DTD has taken over things. Here's my first post in this thread if you missed it:It is an ISPT thing, but it's no coincidence that this year's Lock retreat is in Portugal, especially given their close association with the fail ISPT.
Oh, and...
Basically, the pros and affiliates are still getting paid (although slower from my understanding), so it's not crazy to think they feel everything is ok and will be worked out at some point.They do this retreat every year. I interviewed the whole lot of them and several of them brought it up. I also saw several Facebook photos of each pro recieving a very expensive wine/champagne christmas gift around the holidays. The way they were gushing about it (two bottles of something I couldn't make out, in a handmade wooden box) my guess is it's at least a $1k price-tag. Might explain why pros are loath to call the site out or believe the forum chatter. Not really sure what the deal is (I've heard conflicitng intenral chatter that I cannot repeat at this time) but even if the company is 100% legit they are basically digging their own grave with the uber-slow-cashouts and lack of communication -- basically a self-fulfilling prophecy
I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets
Here is my response to Weisner:
----------------------------------------------------------
Melanie, I appreciate and respect you being the first Lock pro to speak publicly about this matter. I agree with those expressing the sentiment that you shouldn't be singled out for all of the venom simply because you're the only one willing to respond.
However, I am disappointed to say that your post, while long and covering a multitude of topics, is extremely flawed and reads like an affirmation of recent Lock propaganda.
First off, much of your post focuses on the controversy of you selling pieces in the Marketplace while representing Lock. You complained that people were inappropriate in confronting you there, and insisted that your reputation in the Marketplace has been impeccable. But here's a news flash for you, Melanie:
Nobody cares about the Marketplace. That's not what this is about. People confronted you there because it was the only way to get your attention to this issue -- something you were apparently ignoring for quite a long time. I guarantee that most people wouldn't bother you in the Marketplace if they felt you were making a good faith effort to get to the bottom of the shadiness at Lock. Instead, you appeared to be practicing avoidance, so people confronted you in a place where it would be hard for you to continue ignoring the matter.
Now let's get to the more important issue: Lock itself.
Here is your explanation as to why you are not leaving Lock:
The above paragraph is self-righteous nonsense.
Your "responsibilities" at Lock are simply to promote them and to attract new players based upon your reputation. You do not work there in a customer service or player advocate capacity. You do not have access to sensitive company information. Simply put, customer service is not your job, nor have you made any attempt in your nearly two years at Lock to assist players during the countless scandals that occurred on the site.
Indeed, even you admit that you have no power there:
Absolutely true.
Your only power to improve the situation involves laying down a public ultimatum to Lock to either come completely clean, or you're walking. Either way, it improves the situation. If they come clean, the players win (or at least they will know the true situation). If you walk, it makes a powerful statement to Lock -- and the poker world as a whole -- that the site is so shady that one of their pros walked away and gave up a lucrative sponsorship in disgust.
You are not exercising this power because you want (or need) the money.
When you wear a Lock patch and appear as a pro on their website, it clearly says, "I, Melanie Weisner support Lock Poker and endorse it as a great and safe place to play."
People see your face on the website, or perhaps read your tweets, and say to themselves, "Well, I respect Melane's intelligence and judgment. She's a grinder like me. If she recommends Lock, it's got to be a great place to play!"
You talk about concern for your friends. Would you recommend to your friends to deposit money on Lock right now? What about your mother? Would you want her depositing money on Lock? If the answer is NO, then you are doing a disservice to your friends and fans by steering them toward an obviously shady site.
Moving along...
You claim that your goal with Lock right now is to get some honest answers:
However, you then go on to post a collection of grossly untrue and misleading Lock propaganda, which was likely spoonfed to you in Portugal by Jennifer herself.
Ugh. Where do I start?
How can you confirm that the latest transfer issue (i.e. the refusal to cash anyone out who had EVER received a transfer) is an "100% true issue"? What does that even mean? Are you saying that Lock has a valid reason for canceling clearly innocent people's cashouts?
You talk about the "behind-the-scenes-issues with processing", and how that somehow affects non-US players just because Lock also serves Americans. That's a complete lie. That is Lock's excuse so they can explain why they aren't paying non-US players for several months, when all other sites (including US-facing ones) manage to get it done within hours or days. You claim it's because of legitimate issues with processing, but in reality it's because Lock is broke.
You throw around terms like "money laundering" and "abuse of the transfers", as if either has been a real problem with Lock's active players. Not a single one of the myriad of longtime Lock players complaining on 2+2 is a money launderer or transfer abuser. Not one. These are all dedicated grinders like you who play poker for a living, and just want their rightfully-owed money. Lock has stolen their money and accused them of criminal behavior.
Even if there is money laundering and so-called transfer abuse, this should be incredibly easy to determine without affecting a single innocent party. I could teach a 9-year-old how to look at an account's history and determine whether it is a legitimate player or someone receiving transfers just to cash out. It has been two weeks since these issues have been brought to light, and not a single person has been made whole. It would take all of 5 minutes to clear these falsely-accused people, many of whom were already waiting months for their cashouts. For you to dismiss these issues as "money laundering" and "transfer abuse" shows a completely cavalier attitude and naivete as to what is really going on.
The rest of your passage above begins every sentence with "We have been told". Exactly. You've been told. The person "telling" you and the other Lock pros is a habitual liar and scammer, whose only goal is to stretch out this disgusting Ponzi scheme for as long as possible.
Jennifer Larson and the rest of the Lock management team has ZERO credibility at this point. You can talk about the improvement of Skrill cashouts "by June" (why not immediately?) and the supposed proper communication of transfer playthrough requirements. These are all empty promises, and are designed to buy time. By your own admission, you have no visibility into knowing if any of these are true. Jennifer is telling you to wait another 1-2 months and everything will get better. How often did we hear that same song and dance from Shane, Rizen, and others at Lock, only to see things get WORSE, not better?
Okay, so you've been given some concrete timeframes. Then what? Do you promise to resign if Skrill cashouts are not moving at a 1-2 week pace by June 1? Do you promise to quit Lock and publicly denounce them if they don't immediately fix this transfer-cashout fiasco and reverse the incorrect cancellations?
It sounds to me like you're just telling us to wait and see if Lock is keeping its promises, without any promise of action on your part if they don't.
I'm guessing that this is not an accidental omission, but rather leaving yourself an out to worm your way out of this commitment, blaming it on the DOJ or payment processors some other nefarious enemy of poker.
By the way, "the ship can be righted" is a great description of what Jennifer is trying to do. She's hoping that, given enough time and stalling, enough deposits will roll in between now and June so she can pay out a few players and make it look like cashouts are working again. This will then instill confidence into a lot of Lock's critics, which will translate to more deposits, and all of a sudden, the problem will appear to go away.
Except it won't. Because Lock still won't have the vast majority of the money they claim to have on deposit.
Why don't you and the other Lock pros demand that Lock hire a respected third-party company to audit their accounts and confirm that the player money is there? You don't think this action is warranted at this point? Or do you just not want to know the answer?
If you and the "other pros" are serious about getting to the bottom of this, get a hold of me, ChicagoRy, raidalot, JimAfternoon, or any of the other vocal Lock critics who can give you a list of relevant questions to ask your boss.
Otherwise, you are just paying lip service to a situation you either barely understand or displaying willful ignorance.
I look forward to your response.
Oh, and...
Although the Cypriot Banking Crisis did start in 2012, issues regarding the "haircut" and difficulty withdrawing didn't kick in until March this year.
So this sounds like a another lock bullshit excuse (albeit not a public one) as lock were having major problems long before this date.
No reason to not pay RoW players. I cashed out of stars on 28 April and funds were in my bank account 3 days later.
#FREEJACK #NEVERFORGET
NoFraud Online Poker Room: http://nofraud.pokerfraudalert.com:8087. For password resets and reload requests PM me.
Druff at his best ITT. Would be a good idea to post an open letter to Lock pro's summarizing the situation they are in and a good exit strategy for them. Then twitter bomb them asianspa style.
Weisner just don't learn! Even Brian "Stinger" Hastings chimes in on this thread and pretty much rapes her comments which he was also a former FTP Red Pro like Melanie.
It's hard to say how long FTP would have survived without Black Friday but their time was numbered. Full Tilt were still paying up until Black Friday and some afterward before their license got pulled. With Lock Poker the well is dry. They don't have enough new money coming in and have former customers jumping ship to Intertops. Their reputation is shot so badly that even newbies who might google to see where to play poker online have a great chance of running across a lot of negative stuff about Lock that they will stay clear of them.
The Portugal meet up seems like a bullshit feeding session by Jennifer to tell the Lock Pros not to panic and all will work out in a month's time. It don't seem like they told Lock Pros to be silent which is what FTP did and I respect that better then what Lock is doing which is encouraging the pros to report what they are told which many including myself believe to be lies.
Just to clarify one point: This meeting is yearly (which is what I was trying to get across in my first post) it has nothing to do with issues and is planned well in advance as a bonus thing like the wine gift I talked about for Xmas, although I'm sure they used it to explain the current situation from their point of view. A bunch of Lock Pros talked about this with me about a year or so ago, saying how much they look forward to these meetups.
I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets
I think you are unintentionally teetering on being a Lock apologist in your overt attempt to keep opinion out of your post. If the company is in such dire financial shape to stop paying their debts to players then they should be cancelling their employee boondoggles regardless of their corporate traditions of pissing money away.
I know I don't post here often so I can forgive you for not following anything I write about Lock or online poker in the US in general. It's pathetic that nobody here wants to pump the brakes even just a little bit, and just spins every little tweet and forum post into the Mayan apocolypse and the smoking gun for Lock's failure. The company is a mess right now, and has done the worst job in the history of online poker of communicating with their player base, but realistically, nobody knows their financials, or why they are hosting a retreat. The problem is if anyone tries to point out an actual fact or correct anything someone posts they are an apologist. If you actually knew what I post elsewhere and write about you'd know that even before Black Friday I advocated NOBODY leave any significant amount of money on ANY US online poker site. For anytihng I've ever said about Lock I always preface it with "buyer beware".I think you are unintentionally teetering on being a Lock apologist in your overt attempt to keep opinion out of your post. If the company is in such dire financial shape to stop paying their debts to players then they should be cancelling their employee boondoggles regardless of their corporate traditions of pissing money away.
I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets
Planned or not let me create a scenario for you.Just to clarify one point: This meeting is yearly (which is what I was trying to get across in my first post) it has nothing to do with issues and is planned well in advance as a bonus thing like the wine gift I talked about for Xmas, although I'm sure they used it to explain the current situation from their point of view. A bunch of Lock Pros talked about this with me about a year or so ago, saying how much they look forward to these meetups.
Say you have a week off in December and you are intending to take a vacation to the Bahamas with your wife and two kids. You plan this trip at the end of last year so almost a year ahead. Four months into the year both your wife and yourself lose your jobs and now financially your hurting. It's not very wise of you to go but you made the plans. It might cost you say 15% of what the trip would cost to get out of it since you put some money down on whatever it might be but paying for the full trip will put your finances in very bad shape.
Do you go on this trip anyways?
Of course Lock Pros look forward to these free trip meet ups where they are treated like royalty for a week or however long they are there. I'm sure the financials come up yet they don't want to push the issue too much with the label that pays them.
Wouldn't the responsible thing for Lock to do is say "We are sorry, but due to our recent circumstances we financially cannot afford the trip to Portugal this year?"
Wouldn't is be courteous of Lock Pros to be aware of the current financials of a company that hasn't paid out and say "You know what we would like to save you money this year on the trip in hopes the company can turn around which could benefit us Pros for years to come?"
I realize not many people are going to pass up a great trip like that but it would of been in the best interest of the company to save that money and if some how they pulled out of this shit they are in now then the Pros could perhaps be compensated at a future date and still be Pros for a site for years down the road.
I'm sure several of these pros know stuff with Lock is not looking good and hasn't for a while yet they continue to peddle the companies shady rhetoric to the community. Some of them are praying things turn around while others are just buying up the hype that they are told because the company has done them no wrong so far.
Deep down someone like Melanie Weisner should know better having gone through past filthy dealings with FTP. It's rumored/semi-confirmed from her that she has a half million or more locked up on that site. Who knows what she is keeping on Lock but if it's more then a few percent of what she had on FTP then she is even more of a gullible idiot then anyone thought.
I've been following the NVG thread (and a few others) closely the last few days, and I must say I'm always delighted to see posts from Kilowatt.
I don't read much there anymore but when kevmath tweeted the link I decided to read it. I was surprised just how many posts druff has over there in the few weeks he's been cleared to post. What will happen to this site?
I saw that Druff said the word ass in one of his posts. Their are some anal mods over on 2+2 that will give you an infraction for using that word.
I was actually almost completely silent there for several weeks after being allowed back on 2+2.I don't read much there anymore but when kevmath tweeted the link I decided to read it. I was surprised just how many posts druff has over there in the few weeks he's been cleared to post. What will happen to this site?
I only got active recently because of this issue.
This is why I wanted a 2+2 account -- so I could communicate to a large number of people when important issues like this come up.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote
