UFC 159 - Jones vs Sonnen

[sonatine]

Youre making shit up, whats the discussion potential here exactly?

Mark Hunt is of the absolute best pedigree for striking available. Oh yeah and he was a cunt hair away from keylocking Fedor.

Your name is Hockey Guy. If I rolled into a hockey thread and was like WAYNE GRETZKI IS THE WORST GOALIE IN THE GAME would you be like "Oh wow lets have a civil discussion, because I think your analysis if off!"?

Just thinking about what you said about Hunt and Nelson having anything in common in terms of their striking is making me sick and feverish. Its toxic stupidity wrapped in an afterbirth of narcissism and sloth.

Whatever. Like I meant they strike exactly the same way. You probably think I meant they were also both from Samoa & both fight with large beards. They will have the same gameplan against Kongo & the tools to pull it off though IMO. Basically all I was trying to say but you have to make sure you discredit anyone that posts in the MMA threads. I guess it`s just your nature.

You sound like a serious butthurt Hunt fanboy. Get over it. BTW if you said something about hockey I didn`t agree with I would avoid being a condescending asshole to them. Look through all my posts, I`m almost never a condescending asshole like you. You seem to do it on a daily basis to somebody & I fully expect I`ll now be on your troll before reading list.

Stop. It took you like 20 minutes to respond because you had to calm down first. Your ears are still read, your balls are still showing.

You cant just pretend to know about things and expect it to go swimmingly, thats not good enough. Hunt is a shadow of who he was during his peak years and he left Struve's jaw in literal pieces.

Please give me an excuse to agree with you.... throw me a bone. Here, Ill give you one:

I just mean that Nelson has stopped fighters with his fists. So has Hunt!

Ohhhhhhhhh! Wow yeah, no you totally know what youre talking about and arent desperately trying to draw attention from how deep the hole you dug was before you jumped into it, and youre definitely not mad.

[Hockey Guy]

Whatever. Like I meant they strike exactly the same way. You probably think I meant they were also both from Samoa & both fight with large beards. They will have the same gameplan against Kongo & the tools to pull it off though IMO. Basically all I was trying to say but you have to make sure you discredit anyone that posts in the MMA threads. I guess it`s just your nature.

You sound like a serious butthurt Hunt fanboy. Get over it. BTW if you said something about hockey I didn`t agree with I would avoid being a condescending asshole to them. Look through all my posts, I`m almost never a condescending asshole like you. You seem to do it on a daily basis to somebody & I fully expect I`ll now be on your troll before reading list.

Stop. It took you like 20 minutes to respond because you had to calm down first. Your ears are still read, your balls are still showing.

You cant just pretend to know about things and expect it to go swimmingly, thats not good enough. Hunt is a shadow of who he was during his peak years and he left Struve's jaw in literal pieces.

Please give me an excuse to agree with you.... throw me a bone. Here, Ill give you one:

I just mean that Nelson has stopped fighters with his fists. So has Hunt!

Ohhhhhhhhh! Wow yeah, no you totally know what youre talking about and arent desperately trying to draw attention from how deep the hole you dug was before you jumped into it, and youre definitely not mad.

Seriously. Why don`t you just fuck off. I don`t give a fuck what you think about anything & you don`t care what I think about anything.

I get a kick out of how you always think you`ve tilted everybody you troll & point it out like it`s true. You`re just not worth it.

Another potentially decent thread finished.

[sonatine]

Rofl the thread is finished because no one can take what you say seriously?

[NotAPedophile]

First off

:feygelah



second

I've been reading Jimmy Quinlan's (BJJ/wrestler from TUF 17) AMA on reddit today, and he fully believes Sonnen is the favorite over Jones. He may be a bit biased since he's a wrestler and Chael was his coach, but I'll go with that on a +500 bet.

Also, Jones never wore the Sonnen Jersey to his teams training after losing the bowling bet, makes me hate the douche even more.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments...om_tuf_17_ama/

"[–]buffpriest 8 points 8 hours ago
Who do you think will win between Chael and jones. And how do you think it will happen.
Ps. Plz give a somewhat definitive answer


[–]JQCrash25[S] 15 points 6 hours ago
I think Chael or Jon could win depending on who hits who more and establishes their own game plan better.. whichever guy taps first will probably lose ..
jk.. I think Chael is the favorite in my eyes... Jon is incredible gifted as an athlete but I think Chael wil be able to smother Jon and use his dirty boeing and takedowns to wear down the champ.. I'm expecting the fight to look like a Randy Couture type fight.. Jon could catch Chael at anytime with a crazy spinning limb shot though so its interesting but I definitely see chael as the favorite"

It didnt work against a healthy Silva, its not going to work against Jones. Id truly love to be wrong here but Im not.

You don't think Chael can pull it off 20% of the time?(+500). Jones is no where near Anderson. He may get there, but I don't think they come close as far as achievement and skills. Chael did almost pull it off against Silva, and Bones is no Silva. Are you saying you buy into Silva being injured?

Also, this is a TRT approved Chael, and a mind fucking Chael, which I don't think Bones has really dealt with. Some people have talked some shit(Rampage?), but Chael has it together and can really make Jones look like a fool with his words. This, in addition to the mind fuck that went on to setup this TUF season, with Chael calling him out.

I don't know, I may be wayyyy off base, or dead on, I haven't been really impressed with the LHW talent pool, and this seems like Jones biggest test.

1 out of 5? Really?

[sonatine]

First off

:feygelah



second

It didnt work against a healthy Silva, its not going to work against Jones. Id truly love to be wrong here but Im not.

You don't think Chael can pull it off 20% of the time?(+500). Jones is no where near Anderson. He may get there, but I don't think they come close as far as achievement and skills. Chael did almost pull it off against Silva, and Bones is no Silva. Are you saying you buy into Silva being injured?

Also, this is a TRT approved Chael, and a mind fucking Chael, which I don't think Bones has really dealt with. Some people have talked some shit(Rampage?), but Chael has it together and can really make Jones look like a fool with his words. This, in addition to the mind fuck that went on to setup this TUF season, with Chael calling him out.

I don't know, I may be wayyyy off base, or dead on, I haven't been really impressed with the LHW talent pool, and this seems like Jones biggest test.

1 out of 5? Really?

Even with the TRT, Im putting it at 1 in 12, and honestly I think Chael is the better fighter in terms of skillsets and general mma knowledge, and hes sure as shit the smarter person.

That said; Jones has reach, Jones has weight, Jones has power, and Jones has those sick short elbows he follows up with his cross-face with, and those are going to be Sonnen's kryptonite when he tries to clinch.

I want to be wrong sooooo bad. I want Sonnen to lock in the double and trip to side control. I want in the biblical sense. But I just see Jones muscling his way out of it.

Also I 100% think Silva was injured or sick when they fought first. I understand its a very Brazilian thing to claim it after the fact but Silva just looked horrible in that fight so its something be true.

[sonatine]

this seems like Jones biggest test.

sorry, i missed this... chael has to feed an extra 20 pounds of muscle he never fought with before, possibly for 25 minutes. jones has demonstrated he can weather adversity in early rounds and still dominate very game fighters in the fourth and fifth round. its just bad man.

[4Dragons]

I'M HAMMERED, DIDN'T READ THREAD. EXPECT JONES TO DO SOMETHING UNEXPECTED, BUT WANT SONEN TO WRECK SOME SHIT HOPEFULLY WITH A LEFT HOOK.

[NotAPedophile]

I've got faith in Chael.... Also, theoretically, if one happened to be in the general vicinity of Jacksons MMA, I wonder what would be the best way for a stranger who just got over stomach flu to visit Jones and wish him luck in his fight.

In other UFC news:
Joe Rogan's twitter -
‏@joerogan
This week on the podcast: Monday @TonyHinchcliffe Tuesday @GeorgesStPierre maybe one Wednesday too if I find the time #BOOM #SUCKIT

BOOM

Some of 4Ds best work

edit: jones

[BeerAndPoker]

I like both Jones and Sonnen but Jones is a beast who could move up I think comfortably to heavyweight where Sonnen has moved up from Middleweight to Light Heavyweight just to fight him.

I can see Jones taking Sonnen out in the second or third round.

[NotAPedophile]

this seems like Jones biggest test.

sorry, i missed this... chael has to feed an extra 20 pounds of muscle he never fought with before, possibly for 25 minutes. jones has demonstrated he can weather adversity in early rounds and still dominate very game fighters in the fourth and fifth round. its just bad man.

Per Peter Mcneil in the TUF 17 thread:

How could he be gassed by beating someone up for 5 minutes from the top? Last Time he beat the same guy up for 20+ minutes. He uses the so called best nutrition guy in Mike Dolce whos book is a total joke. He knew he wasnt going to stop Silva he was going to have to fight 25 minutes to win so why would he come in out of shape? Makes no sense to me. It pisses me off that some one (Silva) can be considered the best pfp fighter in the world, but get his ass whipped by a guy with a shitty record just because he comes back to win the fight. He was still totally dominated by Sonnen for 5.5 rounds out of a little over 6 rounds.

first of all when you gnp and try to control someone from the top you are working fucking hard, Im guessing you never roll or train? Theres a reason why getting on top of a heavy bag and giving it gnp on the ground is a conditioning drill. Sonnen said he had put on 12lbs of mass for the second fight and the cut was hell, you could see it at the weigh in. A bad cut will gas even the fittest competitor. He's moving up to 205 because of his weight, his media bs is that he is only after a title but he simply struggles with the cut to 185. Watch the fight again, he looks like fucking hell at the weigh in, looks like hell after the first round coming back to his corner and he looks like shit coming out for the second. I also think his gas tank was questionable looking against Bisping but Bisping isnt skilled enough to take advantage of it the way Silva is. I'm not sure what you're pissed off about, both those fights finished in a position that Silva could end Sonnens life if a ref wasnt there to stop it. Silva was the better man, finished him 2/2 times. I like Sonnen more but that's just the way it is. BTW - Sonnens record isn't shitty recently, it's terrific.

The weight issues sound legit to me. If this is correct, than, a la Frankie Edgar, this may be closer to his walking around weight, which may actually be better for him. I was also going to bring up round 1 of the rematch with Silva. He controlled and dominated Silva in round 1, and Bones aint no mahfkn Silva.

Edit: bold

[sonatine]

The thing is, regarding that round 1 in the rematch, and I hate to go here because its conjecture at its worst really, I feel like Silva had an agenda and he worked it there.

He was going to not even bother to stuff the takedown attempt, lay there, let Sonnen blow his tank on a totally ineffective assault. And I feel that way for two reasons; it sure as hell looked like what he wanted to do, and its exactly what happened to Sonnen's tank.

In any case.

Maybe its true, that Sonnen wont gas at 205 because its his 'walking around weight'. It just seems wildly optimistic.

[BetCheckBet]

The thing is, regarding that round 1 in the rematch, and I hate to go here because its conjecture at its worst really, I feel like Silva had an agenda and he worked it there.

He was going to not even bother to stuff the takedown attempt, lay there, let Sonnen blow his tank on a totally ineffective assault. And I feel that way for two reasons; it sure as hell looked like what he wanted to do, and its exactly what happened to Sonnen's tank.

In any case.

Maybe its true, that Sonnen wont gas at 205 because its his 'walking around weight'. It just seems wildly optimistic.

PErhaps, but we have seen Sonnen fight at 205 in the past and he was anything but impressive. He talked himself into a title fight.

I agree that it's hard to imagine Sonnen coming out on top here more than 10%

[NotAPedophile]

The thing is, regarding that round 1 in the rematch, and I hate to go here because its conjecture at its worst really, I feel like Silva had an agenda and he worked it there.

He was going to not even bother to stuff the takedown attempt, lay there, let Sonnen blow his tank on a totally ineffective assault. And I feel that way for two reasons; it sure as hell looked like what he wanted to do, and its exactly what happened to Sonnen's tank.

In any case.

Maybe its true, that Sonnen wont gas at 205 because its his 'walking around weight'. It just seems wildly optimistic.

PErhaps, but we have seen Sonnen fight at 205 in the past and he was anything but impressive. He talked himself into a title fight.

I agree that it's hard to imagine Sonnen coming out on top here more than 10%

I'm honestly skeptical myself of how he'll perform. It is a bit nutty that he is such a hugely considered underdog, when the only person who he's lost to recently is Silva - and Silva makes everyone look foolish. He did however earn that title shot with Silva, and the rematch. I do understand that moving up is a difficult task, but it will be against a less skilled opponent than he previously fought - I feel like the mystique of Bones is clouding a lot of peoples judgement. I do really want Jones to lose though..Probably just going in circles at this point, we'll see on Saturday.

[sonatine]

Ultimately it boils down to; is it mystique of Jones or is it physics?

Personally I think its physics. It wasnt Jones' mystique that stopped Machida or turned Shogun into an old man with one kick.

[gldneagle]

As much as I love to hear Chael talk and how epic an upset would be, don't see how it is possible for Chael to beat an even longer fighter than Silva is. He isn't going to be able to connect with Jones reach advantage and ground defense.

[NotAPedophile]

As much as I love to hear Chael talk and how epic an upset would be, don't see how it is possible for Chael to beat an even longer fighter than Silva is. He isn't going to be able to connect with Jones reach advantage and ground defense.

[DirtyB]

As much as I love to hear Chael talk and how epic an upset would be, don't see how it is possible for Chael to beat an even longer fighter than Silva is. He isn't going to be able to connect with Jones reach advantage and ground defense.

Silva had a 3.5 inch reach advantage over Sonnen. Jones has a 10.5 inch reach advantage.

I've bought the large majority of UFC shows the past few years, but I might skip this one.

[NotAPedophile]

]

Silva had a 3.5 inch reach advantage over Sonnen. Jones has a 10.5 inch reach advantage.

I've bought the large majority of UFC shows the past few years, but I might skip this one.

"When ground fighting, shorter fighters are harder to take down or tackle compared to taller foes because they're nearer to their center of gravity."

Also:

"Although a shorter arm reach is a disadvantage when throwing a strike on long ranged outside fighting, it can be an advantage during closed ranged in-fighting. A shorter arm can facilitate greater power and leverage (especially throwing short hooks and short uppercuts) at this range than a longer arm can."


This may sound preposterous, but when in close I think the excessive reach could be detrimental for Jones.

Their wrestling pedigrees are also are very close

Jones:

Amateur wrestling
National Junior College Athletic Association
NJCAA Junior Collegiate Championship out of Iowa Central Community College (2006)[85]
NJCAA All-American out of Iowa Central Community College (2006)[86]
NHSCA Senior All-American (2005)[87]
New York State Public High School Athletic Association
NYSPHSAA Division I State Championship out of Union-Endicott High School (2005)[88]
USA Wrestling
Northeast Junior Greco-Roman Regional Championship (2004)[89]

Chael:

Amateur wrestling
National Collegiate Athletic Association
NCAA Division I All-American out of University of Oregon (1998)[61][67]
NCAA Division I 190 lb – 8th place out of University of Oregon (1998)[68]
Pac-10 Conference 197 lb – 2nd place out of University of Oregon (1999)[69]
Pac-10 Conference 197 lb – 2nd place out of University of Oregon (2001)[70]
University National Greco-Roman Championships
187.25 1b -3rd place out of University of Oregon (1997)[71]
187.25 lb -2nd place out of University of Oregon (1998)[72]
187.25 lb -1st place out of University of Oregon (1999)[73]
187.25 lb -1st place out of University of Oregon (2000)[74]
Awarded "Most Outstanding Wrestler" of 2000 tournament
World University Greco-Roman Championships
187.25 lb – 2nd place (2000)[75]
Senior National Greco-Roman Championships
187.25 lb -4th place (2000)[76]
185 lb -4th place (2002)[77]
2000 US Greco-Roman Olympic Team Trials
187.25 lb West Regional Champion [78]
187.25 lb -3rd place [79]
US Greco-Roman World Team Trials
211.75 lb -4th place (2002) [80]
Dave Schultz Memorial International Greco-Roman
187.25 lbs -1st place (2000)[81]
213.75 lbs -1st place (2001)[82][83]
University National Freestyle Championships
187.25 lb -5th place out of University of Oregon (1998)[84]
187.25 lb -3rd place out of University of Oregon (1999)[85]
187.25 lb -2nd place out of University of Oregon (2000)[86]
Championship Belt Series Winner, University Level
(2000)[87]

[BetCheckBet]

Silva had a 3.5 inch reach advantage over Sonnen. Jones has a 10.5 inch reach advantage.

I've bought the large majority of UFC shows the past few years, but I might skip this one.

"When ground fighting, shorter fighters are harder to take down or tackle compared to taller foes because they're nearer to their center of gravity."

Also:

"Although a shorter arm reach is a disadvantage when throwing a strike on long ranged outside fighting, it can be an advantage during closed ranged in-fighting. A shorter arm can facilitate greater power and leverage (especially throwing short hooks and short uppercuts) at this range than a longer arm can."


This may sound preposterous, but when in close I think the excessive reach could be detrimental for Jones.

Their wrestling pedigrees are also are very close

Jones:

Amateur wrestling
National Junior College Athletic Association
NJCAA Junior Collegiate Championship out of Iowa Central Community College (2006)[85]
NJCAA All-American out of Iowa Central Community College (2006)[86]
NHSCA Senior All-American (2005)[87]
New York State Public High School Athletic Association
NYSPHSAA Division I State Championship out of Union-Endicott High School (2005)[88]
USA Wrestling
Northeast Junior Greco-Roman Regional Championship (2004)[89]

Chael:

Amateur wrestling
National Collegiate Athletic Association
NCAA Division I All-American out of University of Oregon (1998)[61][67]
NCAA Division I 190 lb – 8th place out of University of Oregon (1998)[68]
Pac-10 Conference 197 lb – 2nd place out of University of Oregon (1999)[69]
Pac-10 Conference 197 lb – 2nd place out of University of Oregon (2001)[70]
University National Greco-Roman Championships
187.25 1b -3rd place out of University of Oregon (1997)[71]
187.25 lb -2nd place out of University of Oregon (1998)[72]
187.25 lb -1st place out of University of Oregon (1999)[73]
187.25 lb -1st place out of University of Oregon (2000)[74]
Awarded "Most Outstanding Wrestler" of 2000 tournament
World University Greco-Roman Championships
187.25 lb – 2nd place (2000)[75]
Senior National Greco-Roman Championships
187.25 lb -4th place (2000)[76]
185 lb -4th place (2002)[77]
2000 US Greco-Roman Olympic Team Trials
187.25 lb West Regional Champion [78]
187.25 lb -3rd place [79]
US Greco-Roman World Team Trials
211.75 lb -4th place (2002) [80]
Dave Schultz Memorial International Greco-Roman
187.25 lbs -1st place (2000)[81]
213.75 lbs -1st place (2001)[82][83]
University National Freestyle Championships
187.25 lb -5th place out of University of Oregon (1998)[84]
187.25 lb -3rd place out of University of Oregon (1999)[85]
187.25 lb -2nd place out of University of Oregon (2000)[86]
Championship Belt Series Winner, University Level
(2000)[87]

Maybe just me but his wrestling background doesn't look much more impressive than Rashad or Bader and we saw what they did....

[garrett]

If anyone wants Chael Sonnen, I will take the bet on 2 conditions, Druff allows it, and will escrow the bet himself.

Up to $50 (PayPal only)