Daniel Negreanu and Antonio Esfandiari involved with a cult?

[Dan Druff]

Regarding Chino, he didn't show up to the April 22 Borgata $15k buyin, $5m guaranteed tournament, which he had a free entry due to winning last year.

Oddly, Chino seemed to not realize that it was a freeroll when first asked about it:

April 22:

Robert Mizrachi @PokerRob24
@ChinoRheem I think you have a free roll since u won last year. I would find out

David Rheem @ChinoRheem
“@PokerRob24: @ChinoRheem I think you have a free roll since u won last year. I would find out”
What freeroll?

... but when explained to Chino that he indeed had a freeroll, he replied the same day that he was doing Choice Center.

David Rheem @ChinoRheem
@DanFleyshman @PokerRob24 I'm doing choice instead.. It is what it is..

I have a feeling that Chino just forgot he had a freeroll, and thought he couldn't afford to play. Then he used the Choice Center thing as an excuse, though he was probably really doing it.

He later said in Cardplayer:

I certainly didn’t forget about it. I had my own things going on in my life that I decided to skip that tournament for. That’s basically it. Obviously, if I am going to skip a freeroll in the WPT Championship people need to know that I am working on myself and trying to make my life better. If anyone can’t understand it, they can go f—k themselves…If people must know, I skipped it to do the Choice Center.

[zealanddonk]

Chino freerolling suckers for tourney entries for years to come, he can afford to miss one here and there

[Earl]

Thanks for the re-post, Druff.

So why the "F" rating?

Aren't BBB ratings based on how much companies pay them?

edit: Sorry to harp on something that has already been harped about in the topic. Watching people blindly follow rating watch dogs annoys me greatly.

[rum dick]

Thanks for the re-post, Druff.

So why the "F" rating?

Aren't BBB ratings based on how much companies pay them?

edit: Sorry to harp on something that has already been harped about in the topic. Watching people blindly follow rating watch dogs annoys me greatly.

This partially correct. I say partially because it's not so much the more you pay, the higher the ranking. It's actually you join the bbb, pay the dues/fees, and you get an "a". I say this because i know of a business that should have gotten a "f" from the bbb for the last several years, and the owner admitted as much to me, but he told me the bbb gave him an "a" solely because he joined the bbb and sent the bbb the membership dues. When he stopped paying dues his company's ranking immediately plummeted.


Druff - the bbb would make a great scam investigation topic.

[Dan Druff]

Aren't BBB ratings based on how much companies pay them?

edit: Sorry to harp on something that has already been harped about in the topic. Watching people blindly follow rating watch dogs annoys me greatly.

This partially correct. I say partially because it's not so much the more you pay, the higher the ranking. It's actually you join the bbb, pay the dues/fees, and you get an "a". I say this because i know of a business that should have gotten a "f" from the bbb for the last several years, and the owner admitted as much to me, but he told me the bbb gave him an "a" solely because he joined the bbb and sent the bbb the membership dues. When he stopped paying dues his company's ranking immediately plummeted.


Druff - the bbb would make a great scam investigation topic.

In this case, what happened to the complaints listed as open/unresolved? Did they just falsely list them as resolved?

[rum dick]

I think the bbb just pretends the complaints were never made but I'll double check with the business owner I referenced in my previous post. What I do know for sure is when he was paying his dues and people complained to the bbb about his company, he never heard a word from the bbb and his "grade" always remained an "a". But a week after he stopped paying his dues the bbb opened up a full on investigation into a complaint. Ironically, that complaint was utterly baseless (and I mean utterly devoid of merit and filed solely out of spite), but the bbb was still inclined to find for the complainant. The business owner was a friend so i took over dealing with the bbb for him, and eventually the bbb pulled its head outta of its ass, but I ended up having to spend several hours getting the bbb to see the light (and for awhile there it was like beating your head against a wall because at the beginning the bbb couldn't seem to grasp the fact that my guy actually had evidence to support his position while the other guy just had a bunch of nonsensical rants).

[alleyrivo]

Most interesting part of it for me was him missing NBC heads up for attending the next level of his 'training.'

[tigerpiper]

I think your ideas on Negreanu are dead on- dude needs to feel loved. As far as Chino goes, a scammer seeks people to scam, the more the merrier

[BeerAndPoker]

He continues to say Choice Center is not a cult. This interview is actually quite good though and Daniel shares some funny life stories, talks about Pokerstars, rake,etc...

[RegGaymer]

Choice center is a spin-off from Lifespring, which got shut down for being shady as fuck and resulted in the death of some members:

"Lawsuits were filed against Lifespring for charges ranging from involuntary servitude to wrongful death. The suits often claimed that the trainings placed participants under extreme psychological stress in order to elicit change. Lifespring was ordered to pay money to participants who required psychiatric hospitalization and to relatives of members who committed suicide, or otherwise died."

If it's not a cult, then it's as close to one taht you'll get. I consider Scientology to be somewhat of a cult, and Choice is a similar brainwashing ponzi scheme.

Negreanu talks out of his ass, and is the epitome of the great faggot that poker is on the whole!

[Sanlmar]

He continues to say Choice Center is not a cult. This interview is actually quite good though and Daniel shares some funny life stories, talks about Pokerstars, rake,etc...

This kid is the worst interviewer. He pulls in great guests. The guests seem to like him and don't ridicule his vapid questions so he has that going for him.

Typical line of questioning:
"what's your favorite color?"
"Red"
"Oh, you like red. I like red too."
Pause. Guest continues talking and bails this fool out.

Negraneau took advantage of the forum and said some interesting things. He promoted PokerStars without any fear of being challenged.

If you mute the kid it was a good take.

[snake_in_the_ass]

Choice center is a spin-off from Lifespring, which got shut down for being shady as fuck and resulted in the death of some members:

"Lawsuits were filed against Lifespring for charges ranging from involuntary servitude to wrongful death. The suits often claimed that the trainings placed participants under extreme psychological stress in order to elicit change. Lifespring was ordered to pay money to participants who required psychiatric hospitalization and to relatives of members who committed suicide, or otherwise died."

If it's not a cult, then it's as close to one taht you'll get. I consider Scientology to be somewhat of a cult, and Choice is a similar brainwashing ponzi scheme.

Negreanu talks out of his ass, and is the epitome of the great faggot that poker is on the whole!

Choice Center is just a mini version of Scientology. Scientology was able to get big name celebrities like Travolta and Cruise while Choice Center was only able to suck in Danny Boy. Travolta is scared to leave Scientology because of all the confessions he made during the "audits." Probably revealed he his gay and loves huge cock. I have a feeling Danny Boy has done the same thing and now is stuck in Choice Center forever.

[Sanlmar]

Choice center is a spin-off from Lifespring, which got shut down for being shady as fuck and resulted in the death of some members:

"Lawsuits were filed against Lifespring for charges ranging from involuntary servitude to wrongful death. The suits often claimed that the trainings placed participants under extreme psychological stress in order to elicit change. Lifespring was ordered to pay money to participants who required psychiatric hospitalization and to relatives of members who committed suicide, or otherwise died."

If it's not a cult, then it's as close to one taht you'll get. I consider Scientology to be somewhat of a cult, and Choice is a similar brainwashing ponzi scheme.

Negreanu talks out of his ass, and is the epitome of the great faggot that poker is on the whole!

Choice Center is just a mini version of Scientology. Scientology was able to get big name celebrities like Travolta and Cruise while Choice Center was only able to suck in Danny Boy. Travolta is scared to leave Scientology because of all the confessions he made during the "audits." Probably revealed he his gay and loves huge cock. I have a feeling Danny Boy has done the same thing and now is stuck in Choice Center forever.

Maybe I need a refresher here. Why is Choice Center crazier than any other religion? They scamming anyone?

Lew can insert Bill Burr religion riff here.

Happy Easter

[RegGaymer]

Choice Center is just a mini version of Scientology. Scientology was able to get big name celebrities like Travolta and Cruise while Choice Center was only able to suck in Danny Boy. Travolta is scared to leave Scientology because of all the confessions he made during the "audits." Probably revealed he his gay and loves huge cock. I have a feeling Danny Boy has done the same thing and now is stuck in Choice Center forever.

Maybe I need a refresher here. Why is Choice Center crazier than any other religion? They scamming anyone?

Lew can insert Bill Burr religion riff here.

Happy Easter

I'm with Snake on this one. Choice reel their customers in by using aggressive marketing strategies that have been drummed into the people who are already on board like Negreanu, then they peer pressure them after a couple of warm up sessions into handing over thousands of dollars for the full x number of weeks package.

You can't compare cults like Choice to religions. Although religions have been corrupted to some extent, the ancient texts are teaching profound truths that have served many people well and lead them to live a relatively happy and civilized life - whether or not you believe in a God/creator.

Choice is more of a new-age concept that draws on pseudo-psychology practices to put their customers ina trance and seperate them from their money.

[BeerAndPoker]

This kid is the worst interviewer. He pulls in great guests. The guests seem to like him and don't ridicule his vapid questions so he has that going for him.

Typical line of questioning:
"what's your favorite color?"
"Red"
"Oh, you like red. I like red too."
Pause. Guest continues talking and bails this fool out.

Negraneau took advantage of the forum and said some interesting things. He promoted PokerStars without any fear of being challenged.

If you mute the kid it was a good take.

Yeah ChicagoJoey annoys me too but a lot of people seem like him a lot from guests to others so I dunno. He streams on twitch a lot lately.

Off topic but I seen Bryan Pellegrino aka PrimordialAA streaming on twitch a few times lately and I went in there and asked him what he thinks about the Lock Poker situation right now saying it in decent manner not just coming at him like "What the hell were you doing all those months spewing Lock Poker is going to pay up",etc...

The point I'm trying to make is someone doing an interview has to word some of the tough non-softball questions in a way not to attack the interviewee otherwise they will either get no answer or a bunch of bullshit. Many times the truth lies in the middle of the answer they give and you have to figure out what is real, what is left out, and what is a blatant lie.

[SrslySirius]

The point I'm trying to make is someone doing an interview has to word some of the tough non-softball questions in a way not to attack the interviewee otherwise they will either get no answer or a bunch of bullshit. Many times the truth lies in the middle of the answer they give and you have to figure out what is real, what is left out, and what is a blatant lie.

It's really easy to do this without being an asshole. Just be polite and phrase it in such a way that you're not the one passing judgment. Then you can pretty much ask anyone anything without pissing them off. It's also disarming and more likely to get honest answers. Joey's got that technique down.

I did the same thing at Bluff and asked plenty of tough questions without ruffling any feathers. Although one time I had a brain fart and basically called Jay Farber a reckless degen.

What was Pellegrino's reply?

[BeerAndPoker]

The point I'm trying to make is someone doing an interview has to word some of the tough non-softball questions in a way not to attack the interviewee otherwise they will either get no answer or a bunch of bullshit. Many times the truth lies in the middle of the answer they give and you have to figure out what is real, what is left out, and what is a blatant lie.

It's really easy to do this without being an asshole. Just be polite and phrase it in such a way that you're not the one passing judgment. Then you can pretty much ask anyone anything without pissing them off. It's also disarming and more likely to get honest answers. Joey's got that technique down.

I did the same thing at Bluff and asked plenty of tough questions without ruffling any feathers. Although one time I had a brain fart and basically called Jay Farber a reckless degen.

What was Pellegrino's reply?

I said to him that I know it's a subject he probably don't want to talk about and also know he hasn't been with Lock Poker in a while but what are the chances he feels they pay even a decent percentage of the money back like say 25% or more that is owed to the players someday?

He said he hasn't kept up with the whole thing since he left but it was a tough time for him because he kept hearing internally within the company about them selling/licensing the Lock software and some other ventures that would raise capital that they had going so he felt strongly that they could turn it around. It then got to be 6 months going by, then a year,etc... Pellegrino said now the money is probably all gone.

On stream he's talked about a few times in his life being rolled for a few hundred grand total from people in poker that scammed him,etc... Not that this justifies anything but still some people got to learn the hard way several times about being too gulliable towards degen gamblers in the poker world.

[TheXFactor]

Daniel Negreanu is to Choice Center what Tom Cruise is to Scientology.

I'm think of starting my own religion where we worship Nicki Minaj's tits.

[MumblesBadly]

I should explain the "F" rating from the BBB.

It's not as bad as it seems, but still doesn't make Choice look good.

Basically, the BBB received 3 complaints about Choice. The exact details of these complaints was not provided, but were placed in the category "Problems with Product / Service".

Presumably, all three complaints were people who paid for Choice, realized it was complete bullshit, demanded their 2600 dolla back, and were denied.

The first complaint was in 2010. That one was "resolved with BBB assistance". Presumably, Choice gave the person some or all of their money back, just to avoid the dreaded "F" BBB rating.

A second complaint came in 2011. Again, the BBB contacted Choice, but they refused to "resolve" the issue. I'm guessing that Choice realized that this would be an ongoing problem if people could simply complain to the BBB every time they wanted their seminar money back, so they told the BBB (and the disgruntled customer) to go kick rocks.

A third complaint came in 2012. The BBB again contacted Choice, but they did not respond. Presumably, Choice decided that they were going to ignore all BBB complaints after they couldn't come to terms with the previous one.

Why the "F" rating?

The BBB apparently gives your business an F rating if you refuse to respond to them after a long period of time, refuse to resolve the complaints, or a combination of both. So despite the fact that there were just 3 complaints (1 of which was resolved), the BBB still gives them an F.

Definitely Choice deserves a low rating for their recent lack of cooperation with the BBB, but I really think "F" should be reserved for businesses with a large number of complaints in comparison to its size. For example, if I started a small business selling computers, and they got 50 complaints about me in 6 months, that would warrant an F rating. Three complaints should never warrant an F rating, unless there is direct evidence that the company is literally stealing from its customers.

I wouldn't be so quick to put full credence in a Better Business Bureau rating. This article from 2013 discusses how some BBB offices use negative ratings, or the threat of them, to try to extort money out of businesses.
http://business.time.com/2013/03/19/...f-a-bad-grade/

[MumblesBadly]

Daniel Negreanu is to Choice Center what Tom Cruise is to Scientology.

I'm think of starting my own religion where we worship Nicki Minaj's tits.

Worshipping her actual, uh, tits? Or images of them that can be easily retrieved from the Internet? Because don't you actually have to be in her presence to worship the actual things?

And it could be very costly to do the latter given her entertainment biz marketability. Unless, of course, you are planning a one-time worshipping session by rushing the stage at one of her shows. But that still means you will need to get ahold of a rather expensive ticke. And survive getting past security. Not to mention bail money and hiring a decent attorney....