Daniel Negreanu and Antonio Esfandiari involved with a cult?

[Crowe Diddly]

any republican that says shit about this shit is full out shit. this is nothing but capitalism at it's finest.

what i think this forum needs is a rocks and rings section

A couple times over the years, I've thought about what type of scam site I'd run, if I were to run a scam site. One would be to sell small, cute chunks of granite, call it a Power Rock, or a Spirit Rock (corn on the cob, yo!), and sell it for whatever, like 15, 20, 40 bucks a pop in a nice little carry case or box. Granite often has low level radiation coming from it, I think, which is obv the sign of the power of the rock itself and whatnot. Toss in some spiritual words, make it seem christian without actually being "Christian", and I think there's a good bit of sucker money to be made.

[Hockey Guy]

Something else that is a bit strange about this saga: remember over the past several years how careful Daniel has claimed to be about the use of his image, whether it be the WPT or Epic. Yet he seems to have no problem at all with his face being on the front page of the Choice Center web site, apparently for recruiting purposes.

The WPT wanted exclusive use of the player's image, which is why a bunch of players stayed away and filed suit against the company. Epic was a poker league run by DN's sworn enemy, so he was an enemy from the start. This Center is a company that DN likes and wants to help. There are pretty much no similarities between the Epic & WPT boycott, and DN endorsing this place, IMO.

Totally wrong.

It was guys like Greg Raymer(lawyer) & Howard Lederer(wannabe lawyer) who were against signing a release so the the WPT could use their image. It was Daniel using common-sense telling them the WPT wasn't going to use their images for nefarious purposes but just for promotion if they made a final table.

[Crowe Diddly]

Totally wrong.

It was guys like Greg Raymer(lawyer) & Howard Lederer(wannabe lawyer) who were against signing a release so the the WPT could use their image. It was Daniel using common-sense telling them the WPT wasn't going to use their images for nefarious purposes but just for promotion if they made a final table.

Seems more like "partially wrong" than "totally wrong", but the correction is noted.

[mulva]

any republican that says shit about this shit is full out shit. this is nothing but capitalism at it's finest.

what i think this forum needs is a rocks and rings section

A couple times over the years, I've thought about what type of scam site I'd run, if I were to run a scam site. One would be to sell small, cute chunks of granite, call it a Power Rock, or a Spirit Rock (corn on the cob, yo!), and sell it for whatever, like 15, 20, 40 bucks a pop in a nice little carry case or box. Granite often has low level radiation coming from it, I think, which is obv the sign of the power of the rock itself and whatnot. Toss in some spiritual words, make it seem christian without actually being "Christian", and I think there's a good bit of sucker money to be made.

obv spray paint them w/ glow in the dark paint and call them magic rox....once you get a celeb to endorse,..you're in. i wonder if tom cruise will bite?

[JoeD]

I just seem to remember him going on and on about being protective of his image and being careful as to what he attaches his name onto, but what do I know. Hopefully this is a passing phase

[Shizzmoney]

Weight Watchers is more of a cult than this, yet I have never heard it called a cult.

They charge you monthly for a service that is common sense. Every fat fuck in the world knows they have to eat less calories to lose weight. They simply package the program for you, and sell you their own overpriced brand food because you're too fat and lazy to measure food yourself.

On top of that, the weekly weigh-ins/ public shaming if you fail to lose weight, which probably means you didn't adhere to eating their food and engage in their group think experiment.

This is essentially that for people with too much money and too little common sense. Fuck, just like losing weight, if a number of people do something like quit smoking, the program has paid for itself, even though you didn't need them to quit.

Don't get me wrong. Choice Center sounds cultish as hell, this place feels cultish, and it's usually this type of place that turns into a cult, and for all we know may already be a cult, but I am seeing no proof that it's a cult.

Funny: Weight Watchers revenue just went down 15.6% from last year, and workers have been complaining about pay (sometimes as low as $6/hr), despite "million dollar profits" (which I'm sure are mostly assets).

http://www.examiner.com/article/weig...ect-to-low-pay

It really goes to show: a sucker born every moinute

[hotshott74]

You would think they would have better headshots for the executive page. Druff posted them but damn! http://www.choicecenter.com/meet-the-team.asp The director of teen leadership is the only one that looks non-cultish... HOF

Druff posted most of them already but LOL.

[BeerAndPoker]

[408Mike]

The scam/cult aspect seems to be the third part -- "Leadership Legacy". Even Nick Binger, a proud graduate of Choice Center, was skeptical about this part. Basically, a certain percentage of the Discovery/Breakthrough "graduates" move on to the "Leadership Legacy" course. This course extends over 3 months, and puts high pressure on its participants to recruit friends and family.

This is the scammish part above IMO. They Prob brainwash a bunch of people and they recruit hard and make the center tons of dough.

I haven't investigated much but this place sounds like a typical umbrella/scientology kind of thing. They lure you in on the promise of whatever bullshit they know will sucker weakminded people and once you're in the door they suck your dick and build you up telling you all kinds of crap and nickel and dime you on books courses and the ever popular "own your own mission" bit, which comes from scientology (along the lines of "for a fee open your own scientology chuch" more or less)

Daniel makes it a point he was not charged past the initial fee for the courses but I bet that's a lie. Either that or he was "encouraged" to make donations or coerced by his friend to do it and didn't think twice. Also I think it's unlikely they push people to recruit family but they more than likely make the experience nauseatingly positive (presuming the person in question is wealthy) such that people like DN will rant and rave about it to their close friends who are also wealthy and the vicious cycle continues.

Lol @ skipping NBC heads up, the most prestigious invite tourney of the year along with the lapt to be there for "friends" whom he just met at some life center.

DN is a nice enough guy but clearly something is a little off with him. First the idiotic vegan thing he's off the deep end over and then he was >< <---- that close to coming out of the closet or something in australia and now this-I get the impression he is unhappy on a very deep emotional level and unable to find the answers himself he is trying other means. I have no doubt anyone with a lot of self confidence who claims to have the answers he is looking for can sucker him in provided they have some kind of legitimacy behind them. Though this place stinks to high heaven like scam city other people (mostly unhappy people who dislike themselves mixed with some guilty people and power hungry greedy types who think this will give them an edge professionally) will definitely fall for it.

If I were stars I'd be pretty ticked off that our lead tv pro skipped the NBC hu so he could be there with "friends"

Bro they have kid fucking poker on payroll stars doesn't give a flying fuck what he does so long as he shows up at the bigger tournies like wsop and shit wearing their gear.

Daniel looks so lost in that video almost like a guilty sounding and guilty I'm a fucking sucker look for skipping these and sidestepping and trying to hide exactly what he was doing cause maybe he would be embarrassed and tried to hide exactly what he was doing without popping out and saying it.

I once was a wayward soul with zero self esteem and if I had money to burn like DN I would have been gung ho for this bullshit center too. The kind of person I was is precisely how these con artists stay in business, they prey on the weak minded types with low self esteem who are looking for answers from without rather than from within. DN is smart as hell as is Antonio and Gavin smith and lord knows who else so the angle here preys not on stupidity but people who are looking for answers and unwilling to look inside themselves for the truths they already know.

Daniel was definitely embarrassed because he KNEW what he was doing was bone headed and a bad business decision but like any gambler who can't leave their slot machine because "it's due to pay out any minute!" he couldn't pass something up that could give him the answers. He knew it was a long shot and probably wouldn't get much from the experience but one never knows, that casino jackpot slot machine outside your hotel room in vegas MIGHT be ready to spew forth a fortune with the next pull of the handle. You never know!

Well, we know, but some people just can't pass up the chance to pull the handle a few times to satisfy their craving and curiosity.

That said I don't give a shit that he paid what he did for this shit. But this choice center looks to be exploiting him and Antonio now and could possibly be sitting on a gold mine in the poker community. Lol @ him skipping hu NBC tourney for this crap. Wonder if stars management is supportive about this?

Bro unless Druff can somehow put a stop to this Choice Center has literally hit the fucking jackpot. You know how superstitious poker players are, hell I have a close friend who used to tell me "if you find something that works ride till the wheels fall off baby!" and I shit you not at least 2-3 times a month he would text me COME BY 9111ASAP and I'd head on over and sure enough, he'd be sitting at some funny angle telling me he was running hot on tilt and would I please get him food from the store turn on a light bring him water or something. He literally would not move from his position and whatever angle his toes were to the wall they stayed right fucking there. He wouldn't move the chair wouldn't get up to piss or shit until he started losing. If I had much taste for running cons I would have convinced him of something luck related and bled him thousands I have no doubt. Poker players know from experience the deck can be a cold hearted bitch and the helpless feeling you are left with at times can really break people. When I ran bad I used to go sit in my car and cry and pound my hands on my dashboard and feel like there was nothing in the world I wouldn't give to not get a guy all in with TPTK and have him river his kicker and steal all the profit I had made the last 6-7 hours. Trap the idiot for all his money, rivers the luckiest bullshit and suddenly it was all for nothing. If I had less common sense you could tell me converting to islam would change my luck and if you were sincere and also had recently converted to islam or something I would definitely try it.

Druff hope you can somehow talk sense into these guys or maybe find a way to discredit the place and shut it the fuck down, lot's of future victims are counting on you I'm sure.

[408Mike]

cool site with good intel on scientology for reference. I'm sure there are more similarities to the structure of both than is readily apparent.

http://anonireland.com/blog/scientol...y-money-money/

[SetofKs]

Doesn't sound like a cult to me. Overpriced? Probably. Reaching for a story? Probably! A cult? I don't think so. He says it has improved his relationships with friends and family that haven't attended this. Wouldn't a cult tell you to cut off all communication with people that refuse to attend this? Where are the signs that this is a cult? I know they tell you that if it helped you, you should use word of mouth to bring in new clients, but most businesses use word of mouth as a way to attract potential customers. I'm lost here. Seems like nothing more than an overpriced workshop to me.

[smithbk]

Doesn't sound like a cult to me. Overpriced? Probably. Reaching for a story? Probably! A cult? I don't think so. He says it has improved his relationships with friends and family that haven't attended this. Wouldn't a cult tell you to cut off all communication with people that refuse to attend this? Where are the signs that this is a cult? I know they tell you that if it helped you, you should use word of mouth to bring in new clients, but most businesses use word of mouth as a way to attract potential customers. I'm lost here. Seems like nothing more than an overpriced workshop to me.

Daniel's high profile drove most of this story. And it had some aspects that could have been kooky. That Micon broke this was probably the best part. All in all, it seems pretty benign. There are plenty of people looking for meaning in their lives.

Mr Srsly Sirius, I'm thinking you can provide the snarky tribute this deserves.


PS.
Choice Center: Atlantic City anyone?

[ErickAA]

Druff,

You asked about Daniel's relationship with his parents. I used to read his blog (probably until 2010) and he talked about his parents a ton. It is funny how you do not recollect him ever talking about them, because except for hockey that might be the non gambling topic he talked about the most back in the day.

(Unless he was making it all up) It seems he was super close with his mother and father, and both their deaths were pretty big traumas to him, with his father being more so because he was still young and his father was larger than life to him.

[gnugget]

Daniel? Yup guilty as charged!

[mackerdoodle jones]

100 DAY COURSE? and it's not a cult....yeah ok. Really is amazing how even the intelligent and highly successful can get wrapped up in cults. i mean, what makes sense is the people who are struggling through life turning to cults because nothing else is working and a group invites you in and offers support and makes you feel special. but someone who isn't struggling and already is special should be kicking back and enjoying the fruits of their labor...24/7. fuck spending a third of a year in empathy and sympathy class.

[garrett]

Fits the Ponzi Scheme Model: Bottom up

The Pyramid:

Part 1-2 Bottom- Money needs to come in

Part 3 Top- Leadership/Recruit as many as you can, we don't get paid if no one shows up for the courses (ChoiceCenter people/Pretty lady acting as the "front")



If an individual like these poker players actually get something out of it, then great. That is not such a bad thing, so it is less of a Negreanu issue as it is a Choice Center issue.


The way this organizations money moves, is where it might get interesting. So in that sense it is more of a suspect company issue then a bash Negreau issue. To be fair I would think he is highly in-tune with the ways of a scamming, being a professional and talented poker player. Not saying it is impossible, but I would suspect he has better situation awareness then some are giving him credit for here.

Disclaimer: Ponzi-Schemes are not my forte.

[BeerAndPoker]

Daniel rambling on again about 7 minutes into this clip about Choice Center. He says "Bryan Micon gonna hate" in this clip too.

[offthetop]

Negreanu is obviously doing something right now. He just won a scoop event and seems to be making every major live final table table.

Maybe there is something to sucking on the Choice sausage_

[neveragain39]

Micon should stay out of all twitter discussions about Choices or Leadership or personal development.

His choices are typically bad and his laziness precludes his ability to lead anyone or anything remotely virtuous.

And as for personal development, he's still begging for wsop stakes just like every year because he's broke.

He should just keep his opinions to himself and stop judging others so publicly.

[BeerAndPoker]

I didn't even realize micon was tweeting about this after Daniel made that video until now. Micon certainly hasn't made the best "choices" in his life but these self-improvement centers are cash grab cults.