Oh, and one of the Choice Center trainers allegedly was/is John Hanley, who was at the center of a major controversy involving a similar organization called Lifespring:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespring
Oh, and one of the Choice Center trainers allegedly was/is John Hanley, who was at the center of a major controversy involving a similar organization called Lifespring:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespring
Though on the side of the non-cult argument, here is a picture of the "Director of Enrollment":
Not exactly the charismatic type.
Here's the COO:
Wow.
http://www.choicecenter.com/meet-the-team.asp
The main picture on their website was a stock photo. Here it is again on a cancer wigs site:
The definition of cult according to dictionary terms:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult
As you can see their are several meanings of the word which Choice or any other "group" don't necessarily have to be based off religion.cult
noun, often attributive \ˈkəlt\
Definition of CULT
1
: formal religious veneration : worship
2
: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3
: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4
: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5
a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
— cul·tic adjective
— cult·ish adjective
— cult·ish·ly adverb
— cult·ish·ness noun
— cult·ism noun
— cult·ist noun
— cult·like adjective
See cult defined for English-language learners »
See cult defined for kids »
Examples of CULT
She has developed a cult following.
<long after it had gone off the air, the TV series continued to have a huge cult>
Origin of CULT
French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate — more at wheel
First Known Use: 1617
So yes it Choice is a cult but not all cults are necessarily bad just a majority have unorthodox views and many are cash grabbers.
Poker players can be prime targets for this sort of thing. You also see many players in poker hire life coaching which many "life coaches" are total scum providing trickery to their clientele for their own personal financial gain.
If this makes Daniel feel better then so be it $2600 or what not to him is small potatoes but for some members of this I'm sure they aren't as well off as him.
IMO a lot of this so called knowledge of positive thinking and people trying to give you a different outlook on determining whats important in life can be personally taught by someone with discipline with all the free resources available today. If your mostly a self taught poker player from living and learning, reading books,etc. why can't you go on the internet and look at ways of finding your "purpose" so to speak.
One thing that is obvious is that Daniel is looking for love and he's failed so many times with money grubbing bimbos that he's not sure how to find it without being taken advantage of. The thing is he comes off with one of the most open personalities in poker which some chicks will definitely like that sort of thing and others will find it annoying. Your better off having a personality then being dull as hell imo yet many of these dull guys in poker still can find a nice woman so Daniel should be able to as well having many people beaten in the personality department.
Dying to drop some cock in this thread. Who fucking cares? There are no victims here.
In addition to the "F" rating from the BBB, there may also be a judgment in Clark County District Court against the Center and a few large IRS liens against Ms Williams from years past. I'm only speculating of course.
The BBB has turned into an extortion racket, and is completely worthless.
If you pay them for their best "membership" package you will get a high grade(usually an A). If you don't pay them they will give you the worst grade possible (an F if they can in some roundabout way justify it).
Can you call the place during the show?
This thread & all the BS happening on 2+2 is about absolutely nothing. It's a run of the mill leadership seminar that doesn't appear to be any different from any other being run every day somewhere in N. America. I have yet to see any evidence that it is anything but exactly this.Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps
I'd be interested to know what percentage of attendees paid for themselves & what percentage were paid for by the company they work for.
It's a bunch of people piling on so they can feel better about themselves by claiming " I don't/wouldn't need this". It's awesome to know that nobody on the forums needs to brush up on their communication/leadership skills. Everybody is solid.
Apparently I'm in a cult since I attended one of these 8 years ago &, although skeptical before I went, didn't find it to be a total waste of time.
(•_•) ..
∫\ \___( •_•)
_∫∫ _∫∫ɯ \ \
Looks like a possum type creature.Though on the side of the non-cult argument, here is a picture of the "Director of Enrollment":
Not exactly the charismatic type.
Jasep really missed his calling
When faced with a difficult decision, ask yourself "What would Micon do?", then do the opposite.
PFA Rookie of the Year Awards
2012: The Templar (unknown)
2013: Jasep $5000+
2015: Micon's gofundme legal defense $3k begging for 100k:
2018: 4Dragons
2019: Dutch Boyd: Mike Postle
2020: Covid19
2021: SMIFlorida and some sort of shit coins for $50k
2022: BDubs leaks chums club info
2023: 22nd Feb 4th Dec Youtube channels removed
2024: Dustin Morgan wins Chrissy's $1000 contest
I disagree.This thread & all the BS happening on 2+2 is about absolutely nothing. It's a run of the mill leadership seminar that doesn't appear to be any different from any other being run every day somewhere in N. America. I have yet to see any evidence that it is anything but exactly this.
I'd be interested to know what percentage of attendees paid for themselves & what percentage were paid for by the company they work for.
It's a bunch of people piling on so they can feel better about themselves by claiming " I don't/wouldn't need this". It's awesome to know that nobody on the forums needs to brush up on their communication/leadership skills. Everybody is solid.
Apparently I'm in a cult since I attended one of these 8 years ago &, although skeptical before I went, didn't find it to be a total waste of time.
While I don't think Daniel or Antonio are intentionally doing anything wrong here, I believe that both have been brainwashed into being unpaid spokesmen to dupe other suckers into joining this thing.
The fact that one of the Lifespring founders was apparently one of the instructors here at one point speaks volumes.
The fact that they go heavy on the "recruit your friends and family" thing in the third course is also very suspect. If this was a legitimate self-help group, they would let natural word-of-mouth do the talking, rather than using high-pressure tactics to brainwash followers to recruit other followers.
Do they provide some useful advice to attendees?
Sure. It depends how much help these people really need, and if their problems can really be solved by some deep-sounding psychobabble, forced introspection, and common-sense advice.
For example, Nick Binger talked about how certain people in his class got out of debt thanks to the advice given there. These people were moderately in debt ($5,000-$20,000). What magic financial bullet was provided to them?
They were told to spend more wisely and budget their paycheck better.
Seriously.
Not exactly groundbreaking stuff here. I guess if you don't have anyone in your life to tell you that, the $2600 might be worth it, but I believe a lot of the "life help" being given is really obvious stuff, dressed up in pretty packaging.
About 15 years ago, I had a new girlfriend who, despite a $40k/year job and very low expenses, always bitched about being broke. I asked her to show me her monthly budgeting and said that I could probably fix it for her. Indeed, she was wasting money on all kinds of bullshit and spending in areas that gave her very little value, so I made some suggestions that basically kept her lifestyle the same but put some decent money in the bank for her every month. I guess I should have charged $2600 for this advice.
This is the scammish part above IMO. They Prob brainwash a bunch of people and they recruit hard and make the center tons of dough.
Lol @ skipping NBC heads up, the most prestigious invite tourney of the year along with the lapt to be there for "friends" whom he just met at some life center.
If I were stars I'd be pretty ticked off that our lead tv pro skipped the NBC hu so he could be there with "friends"
Daniel looks so lost in that video almost like a guilty sounding and guilty I'm a fucking sucker look for skipping these and sidestepping and trying to hide exactly what he was doing cause maybe he would be embarrassed and tried to hide exactly what he was doing without popping out and saying it.
That said I don't give a shit that he paid what he did for this shit. But this choice center looks to be exploiting him and Antonio now and could possibly be sitting on a gold mine in the poker community. Lol @ him skipping hu NBC tourney for this crap. Wonder if stars management is supportive about this?
So if my gym asks me to hand out referral cards they are brainwashing me?I disagree.
While I don't think Daniel or Antonio are intentionally doing anything wrong here, I believe that both have been brainwashed into being unpaid spokesmen to dupe other suckers into joining this thing.
The fact that one of the Lifespring founders was apparently one of the instructors here at one point speaks volumes.
The fact that they go heavy on the "recruit your friends and family" thing in the third course is also very suspect. If this was a legitimate self-help group, they would let natural word-of-mouth do the talking, rather than using high-pressure tactics to brainwash followers to recruit other followers.
Do they provide some useful advice to attendees?
Sure. It depends how much help these people really need, and if their problems can really be solved by some deep-sounding psychobabble, forced introspection, and common-sense advice.
For example, Nick Binger talked about how certain people in his class got out of debt thanks to the advice given there. These people were moderately in debt ($5,000-$20,000). What magic financial bullet was provided to them?
They were told to spend more wisely and budget their paycheck better.
Seriously.
Not exactly groundbreaking stuff here. I guess if you don't have anyone in your life to tell you that, the $2600 might be worth it, but I believe a lot of the "life help" being given is really obvious stuff, dressed up in pretty packaging.
About 15 years ago, I had a new girlfriend who, despite a $40k/year job and very low expenses, always bitched about being broke. I asked her to show me her monthly budgeting and said that I could probably fix it for her. Indeed, she was wasting money on all kinds of bullshit and spending in areas that gave her very little value, so I made some suggestions that basically kept her lifestyle the same but put some decent money in the bank for her every month. I guess I should have charged $2600 for this advice.
Like HG I've been to a couple of these things in the past --one was a leadership seminar, one was a sales seminar, and the other was a pyramid company that a friend dragged me to-- and while they could be used to bilk weak-minded people into parting ways with their money (especially the pyramid company where you had to buy the product to sell it) the reason for them is far less conspiratorial.
It seems like the people who have good experiences recommend it, the people that don't call it crap. You could say the same thing about Tony Robbins seminars; I know people that are huge cheerleaders of these and others who think it's a load of crap, but it doesn't mean the people who took something away from it are brainwashed and that if they recommend it to others thay are suckers bringing in more suckers. I think Jared Tendler's book is the best poker book ever written and I always recommend it; sometimes people agree and sometimes they don't; pretty sure he hasn't brainwashed me though.
Calling a $2,700 leadership seminar a cult seems a tad bit hyperbolic
I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets
I disagree.
While I don't think Daniel or Antonio are intentionally doing anything wrong here, I believe that both have been brainwashed into being unpaid spokesmen to dupe other suckers into joining this thing.
The fact that one of the Lifespring founders was apparently one of the instructors here at one point speaks volumes.
The fact that they go heavy on the "recruit your friends and family" thing in the third course is also very suspect. If this was a legitimate self-help group, they would let natural word-of-mouth do the talking, rather than using high-pressure tactics to brainwash followers to recruit other followers.
Do they provide some useful advice to attendees?
Sure. It depends how much help these people really need, and if their problems can really be solved by some deep-sounding psychobabble, forced introspection, and common-sense advice.
For example, Nick Binger talked about how certain people in his class got out of debt thanks to the advice given there. These people were moderately in debt ($5,000-$20,000). What magic financial bullet was provided to them?
They were told to spend more wisely and budget their paycheck better.
Seriously.
Not exactly groundbreaking stuff here. I guess if you don't have anyone in your life to tell you that, the $2600 might be worth it, but I believe a lot of the "life help" being given is really obvious stuff, dressed up in pretty packaging.
About 15 years ago, I had a new girlfriend who, despite a $40k/year job and very low expenses, always bitched about being broke. I asked her to show me her monthly budgeting and said that I could probably fix it for her. Indeed, she was wasting money on all kinds of bullshit and spending in areas that gave her very little value, so I made some suggestions that basically kept her lifestyle the same but put some decent money in the bank for her every month. I guess I should have charged $2600 for this advice.
This describes many businesses. And how many times have you gave someone advice, they go to a therapist who tells them exactly the same thing, and all of a sudden it's profound and life-changing?
To quote the Jman, "I tell you the truth," he continued, "no prophet is accepted in his hometown." This is a very true statement when you give sound advice to people who are troubled and you know. A stranger is more effective; strange, but human nature.
Micon was a little strong with the word cult on this one from what I'm seeing. Self-help Amway, or self-help MLM, but I am not seeing cult unless Antonio is rubbing crystals on his nutsack before tournies.
Something else that is a bit strange about this saga: remember over the past several years how careful Daniel has claimed to be about the use of his image, whether it be the WPT or Epic. Yet he seems to have no problem at all with his face being on the front page of the Choice Center web site, apparently for recruiting purposes.
Has Daniel stopped making himself feel better via feeding the homeless? He was pimping a soup kitchen like a boss a while back. I thought that was his cult of choice.
The WPT wanted exclusive use of the player's image, which is why a bunch of players stayed away and filed suit against the company. Epic was a poker league run by DN's sworn enemy, so he was an enemy from the start. This Center is a company that DN likes and wants to help. There are pretty much no similarities between the Epic & WPT boycott, and DN endorsing this place, IMO.
any republican that says shit about this shit is full out shit. this is nothing but capitalism at it's finest.
what i think this forum needs is a rocks and rings section
Weight Watchers is more of a cult than this, yet I have never heard it called a cult.
They charge you monthly for a service that is common sense. Every fat fuck in the world knows they have to eat less calories to lose weight. They simply package the program for you, and sell you their own overpriced brand food because you're too fat and lazy to measure food yourself.
On top of that, the weekly weigh-ins/ public shaming if you fail to lose weight, which probably means you didn't adhere to eating their food and engage in their group think experiment.
This is essentially that for people with too much money and too little common sense. Fuck, just like losing weight, if a number of people do something like quit smoking, the program has paid for itself, even though you didn't need them to quit.
Don't get me wrong. Choice Center sounds cultish as hell, this place feels cultish, and it's usually this type of place that turns into a cult, and for all we know may already be a cult, but I am seeing no proof that it's a cult.
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