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Thread: Daniel Negreanu and Antonio Esfandiari involved with a cult?

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    Daniel Negreanu and Antonio Esfandiari involved with a cult?

    I'll give credit where it's due here. Micon actually did a good investigative report on this:

    http://www.donkdown.com/daniel-negre...ter-scam-cult/

    The "cult" in question is Choice Center Las Vegas. It has some similarities to Scientology, except it's much smaller in scale.

    Here is their website:

    http://choicecenter.com/

    Daniel Negreanu recently attended their "graduation":



    He is also rumored to be dating someone he met through Choice Center.

    Choice Center has an F rating at the Better Business Bureau:

    http://www.bbb.org/southern-nevada/b...vegas-nv-78350

    When Antonio Esfandiari won that monster $18 million at the $1 Million buyin One Drop event, he thanked two people -- his father and Choice Center director Robyn Williams (whom he described as his "life coach"). Uh oh! http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012...-las-vegas-an/

    Daniel missed the NBC Heads Up Event in order to take the below laughable "course":



    Even if this isn't a cult, it looks very much like a scam.

    Poker players might be the easiest group of people to bilk out of money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    I'll copy-and-paste it here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Negreanu
    Read some things on the internet that need some clarification. First of all, I am not in a cult, nor does Choice Center have anything to do with religion in the slightest. It is a 100 day course on emotional intelligence that I graduated from last weekend. It cost $2700 for the entire training, and you are never asked for a penny on top of that. Ever.

    I was introduced to this course by my agent, and good friend Brian Balsbaugh who completed the first two weekends, Discovery and Breakthrough. The leadership course is once a month for the next three months and Brian wasn't able to complete the whole course because of prior engagements, but he told me he got a lot out of the two weekends he was there and recommended it. No, he didn't get a percentage of me attending, he just figured I'd like the course so I started it on November 1st and just finished it last weekend.

    Just like with any course or training, you will not find 100% satisfaction and some people don't like it and aren't comfortable with it so they quit. They are free to go whenever they please. You can choose to stay or leave, it's entirely up to you.

    Antonio Esfandiari, as well as Nick & Michael Binger, and several other poker players have completed the course as well. After Antonio graduated he went on to win the One Drop, a WSOP Bracelet, a WSOPE bracelet, and finished 4th at the WPT event in December. Now, I'm not suggesting that Choice is the reason he won, but I certainly noticed the positive changes in him both in terms of his focus and presence at the table, as well as his direction in life.

    Nick Binger and his brother Michael have always been two guys in our community that I've had a lot of respect for, and Nick ended up being in the same class with me. Nick is a sharp guy and as I said, I respect his intellect. We were never forced into anything at all, as you always have a choice.

    Many of the things I read on the internet are wildly inaccurate. If there was anything "fishy" going on, I would be the first to bring attention to it as I have in the poker community for the last 10+ years. I'd say that my record speaks for itself.

    As part of our "leadership legacy" project we were challenged with the task of raising $100,000 for the St.Jude's children's hospital in 7 days. I'm proud to say we raised $277,000 in 7 days.

    Over the last 15 years, over 15,000 people have attended Choice and I personally know close to 100 of those people. Of those 100 I know, one quit on the first night, another quit after the first weekend, and the other 98 all had a great experience with it. It's not for "everybody" I guess, but from my experience it was a powerful experience for the vast majority, including me.
    And it looks like Nick Binger is involved, as well:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Binger
    Hi guys,

    Seems there’s some drama recently regarding Choice Center. As a recent graduate of the program who is no longer affiliated with them in any way, I feel like I’m obligated to add my 2 cents to the discussion.

    First things first, what is it?

    Choice is essentially a variation of an LGAT (large-group awareness training) that focuses on personal development, effectiveness and leadership. The types of techniques used include role-playing, one-on-one and group discussions, games and visualization exercises. It’s formatted as two weekends focused on personal development and an additional three weekends focused on leadership. There is one flat fee for the entire course (currently ~$2600, although I had a coupon and paid $1800). Beyond that there are a handful of optional one weekend courses offered on specific topics (relationships, wealth, etc) that are ~ $600. There is also private coaching available but it’s not really marketed and I never used it.

    When I first heard about Choice from Antonio and my brother Michael, I was very concerned, as I was well aware of the mixed history of LGATs. I have a background in chemistry and I’ve always hated pseudoscience and con artists. In the past I’ve experimented with a variety of personal development/growth type programs including, but not limited to: meditation, sensory-deprivation tanks, NLP, ayahuasca, yoga, and lucid dreaming. Some were effective and some not so much. So having lots of experience with the bullshit rampant in the self-help/personal growth arena, I felt comfortable enough to sign up and evaluate it for myself.

    I realized quickly during the first weekend that the techniques and games employed tend to make people introspective and often very uncomfortable, which is kind of the point. Purposefully creating cognitive dissonance is one the most effective ways to teach anything. That being said, there is no food deprivation, sleep deprivation or abuse of any kind. Before taking part, you have to fill out a lengthy questionnaire that includes any history of mental illness or therapy. If you have ever been in therapy, you are asked to have your therapist informed of the program and have them sign off on your participation. I felt this was a very responsible move from both an ethical and legal standpoint.

    Going into it I knew that there was a broad spectrum of LGAT-type trainings that range from the craziest cults imaginable to really boring mainstream business development courses. The type of training regimen in LGATs can be used for positive or nefarious purposes and can be very effective at both. From the beginning, I was on the lookout for violations of integrity (especially Lifespring-like hardcore tactics) that would signal time for me to go, but I never saw anything that would qualify. I personally found it to be very interesting, fun and generally a catalyst for positive life changes.

    The broad array of techniques are designed to be effective for a diverse group of people, which means some people find certain techniques effective and others less so. For example, I personally got a lot out of the one-on-one discussions but got very little out of the visualization stuff. Those parts were a little wishy-washy for me, but I know some people really liked them. So what ideas do they actually instill during these trainings?

    A big thing for many people was learning how to communicate and listen more effectively, IE in a way that builds relationships. I was surprised at how many people struggle with this in general and the training encourages repairing bad relationships (parents, spouses, siblings, boss, whatever) through honest and open communication.

    Other key points were responsibility, personal effectiveness, integrity, and making positive impacts on others. I really don’t think anyone would have issues with the actual teachings at Choice, as for the most part they are pretty standard personal development principles. There is no weird ideology instilled and there is no charismatic leader (the trainers were different every weekend). Also, it is not insular, like a cult, but rather the opposite in encouraging others to expand their relationships, engage more with others, and make a difference in the community with no expectation of reward.

    The most damning thing I could find about Choice was that it is certainly a business and during the leadership portion you were encouraged to refer the friends you felt would benefit. I really disliked that aspect of it, but it is a business and that model works. On the plus side, during leadership there was extensive personal and business goal-setting, strategic planning, community service (outreach and volunteering), and charity fundraising. Our graduating class of 48 people had some pretty sick concrete results. During the 3 month leadership period the group lost 361 lbs of fat, gained 51 lbs of muscle, paid off $345k of debt, created $945k in new annual income, raised $280k for St. Jude Children’s hospital, and 4 people quit smoking.

    All in all, I feel like I learned a ton from doing Choice, but I’m also somewhat relieved it’s over. When people ask me if they should do it, I tell them that, assuming no history of serious mental illness, I can wholeheartedly recommend the personal development portion (first two weekends). Those two weekends were extremely valuable. The leadership portion I would only recommend for those willing and able to dedicate lots of time and energy during the 3 months and are okay with being asked to enroll friends. This is understandably a deal-breaker for many. Also FYI the trainings are demanding but not physically so, as there were several people in their 60s that graduated.

    I’m very aware that this will be a very polarizing issue in the poker world and I’m happy to honestly answer any questions you guys have. Like most things, this is not a binary case of IT’S EVIL or IT’S AMAZING but it’s whatever you choose to get out of it. In short, I found it generally effective, tons of fun, eye-opening and absolutely got my money’s worth but also wish it was non-profit and didn’t encourage enrolling friends during the leadership portion.

    I want to make it absolutely clear that I have not seen any detrimental impact on anyone’s life from this training (other than paying $2600) and do not believe it presents a danger to anyone of sound mind. Also, there aren’t any higher tiers of “knowledge” that you pay more and more for, like scientology. What you see it was you get as far as money.

    Also, you guys should lay off Daniel. The guy just raised $180k for sick children and personally donated $50k of that. He’s also one of the nicest guys I know and genuinely cares about the people around him.

    Anyways, I’m sure you guys will have some questions…

    -Nick

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    Someone on Daniel's FCP forum asked him a few questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by FCP User
    I think it'd be really great if you addressed some of the specific things in his article.

    Specifically, can you address some of your tweets around the time of the NBC HU championship and how they seemed to indicate that you were catching up with old friends or attending to some kind of crisis among a group of your old friends when in fact you were just attending a session with CC.

    With the 277,000$ you raised for St. Jude's (which I think is great btw), do you know whether or not Choice Center is able to use that 277.000$ as a tax deductible donation on its books? You also mentioned that you were "challenged" to raise 100k in a week. Was this a normal challenge for participants in Choice Center or was it specifically targeted at you/other high worth individuals?

    A lot of people would like to know what happens in the first couple days of this program. Brian Micon mentions that part of the program is mentally wearing you down so that your mind can be shaped into believing that it is benefiting more than you should from the program. Please talk a little bit about the first few days of the process and how you felt afterward.

    Last thing: Can you talk a little about the relationships you built through Choice Center? Did you have a romantic relationship with anyone in your class? Was it instigated from your teacher/ leaders?

    Daniel answered, sort of:

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Negreanu
    1. NBC- Many of the people in this class had become really close friends of mine, including Nick Binger and many others that you wouldn't know. I chose not to mention Choice at the time because I didn't want to confuse the issue as to why I was not playing. I wanted to stick with my group and finish the course with them and I'm glad I did. No one ever asked me to skip NBC, it was 100% my choice.

    2-St.Jude's- every group is tasked with a challenge to raise money for various charities including Habitat for Humanity or what have you. Choice receives no tax credits for it to my knowledge and if I had to speculate I'd say that in helping facilitate the fundraising it actually costs Choice money.

    3. Discovery- the first weekend is the initial training that is designed to prepare you for Breakthrough and then Leadership if you choose to continue you with the course. I think Nick's post best describes what the training actually entails pretty well.

    4. Relationships- my relationship with my brother, who has not attended Choice and likely won't, has never been better. I call him more often, and am much more accepting of our differences. As far as people in the class, there are definitely a decent number of people in that class that I see as life long friends. Romantically, no one has ever pushed me to be in a relationship with anyone from class, in fact, it's heavily frowned upon. The class isn't a place to "meet chicks" if that's what you were wondering :-) 30 days after you graduate from class, you are free to date whoever you please which I think is a great rule.
    Interesting that he had issues with his brother. I never knew that. Come to think of it, does Daniel ever mention his parents in any of his blogs? I'm starting to wonder if he is distant from his entire immediate family, which would explain why he is so susceptible to garbage like this.

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    Thanks for the re-post, Druff.

    So why the "F" rating?
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    5:1 that he has Sorel in it.

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    Here is Daniel Negreanu, on January 23rd, 2013, talking about why he was going to miss the NBC Heads Up Event:



    Note that he is not up front about Choice Center, and instead makes up a BS story about "friends that need him". While it's Daniel's right to keep his personal business private, this shows that he is quietly ashamed of his involvement in Choice Center, and didn't want his fans knowing about it. It's also possible that he was afraid this would jeopardize his Pokerstars sponsorship.

    Also I found it interesting that Brian Balsbaugh turned him on to Choice Center. Balsbaugh was one of the poker "super-agents" who scooped up many of the big name poker players during the height of the poker boom. Here is an article about him on Wicked Chops:

    http://wickedchopspoker.com/brian-ba...poker-royalty/

    I had a conversation with Balsbaugh some years ago (I think 2008) when he was trying to negotiate a way for client David Williams to finally come out and admit to doing the infamous foot/ass porn. This was shortly after the Aubrey O'Day story broke on TMZ, where Aubrey went to neverwinpoker, watched David in the foot porn, and broke up with him. Balsbaugh was afraid that the story would blow up huge in the mainstream media, and talked David into finally owning up to his involvement in it. The plan was for David to do this on NWP Radio, but the story died a lot quicker than expected, and I never heard from Balsbaugh again.

    Anyway, Balsbaugh's involvement surprised me because agents in general tend to be hucksters themselves. You know the old phrase, "You can't con a con man", right? Agents like Balsbaugh are used to having to employ aggressiveness, mind games, illusion, and trickery in order to get the best deals for their clients. That's not to say that agents are con men, but they are very aware of how to manipulate people, as they basically do it for a living. You would think that a guy like Balsbaugh would be the last to fall for that BS, but perhaps he was down on his luck since Black Friday, and felt he needed a spiritual boost.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    It's also possible that he was afraid this would jeopardize his Pokerstars sponsorship.
    I find this very interesting. If it's is a cult, will pokerstars kick him of the team? I

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    This thread about Choice Center started over 10 years ago, but has been getting new posts over the years:

    http://factnet.org/vbforum/showthrea...-Choice-Center

    You will notice that there are some negative statements, but plenty of glowing positive ones. One guy even posts his phone number at the end of his message, inviting phone calls to talk about Choice Center.

    I have to imagine that these Choice Center graduates did not find the 2002 thread by accident, but were directed there and asked to rave about their experiences.

    Micon claims that, in addition to Negreanu, Balsbaugh, Nick Binger, and Antonio, he has heard the following people are/were involved in Choice Center:

    Theo Tran (known to have bad gambling problems, obviously susceptible to magic-bullet life change therapy)
    Sorel Mizzi (currently Negreanu's protege, and we know is willing to blow money, as evidenced by the $3k he gave the Snake in the Grass for a website)
    Gavin Smith (was a big customer of "life coach" Sam Chauhan, so this is not a stretch to believe)
    Erick Lindgren (close friend of Negreanu's and has had major problems recently, so obviously an easy target)
    Nick Hellmuth (Phil's son. Daniel and Phil are good friends)
    Mike Binger (Nick's brother)
    Jeff Gross (good friend of Michael Phelps -- imagine what a score Phelps would be for Choice Center)
    Mathew Waxman (currently raving about Choice Center via Twitter: https://twitter.com/Matthew_Waxman )
    Adam Junglen (wrote about being involved in his blog: http://adamjunglen.com/blog/lywrsh56...9bxjrtu9ytf0rq )

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Someone on Daniel's FCP forum asked him a few questions:




    Daniel answered, sort of:

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Negreanu
    1. NBC- Many of the people in this class had become really close friends of mine, including Nick Binger and many others that you wouldn't know. I chose not to mention Choice at the time because I didn't want to confuse the issue as to why I was not playing. I wanted to stick with my group and finish the course with them and I'm glad I did. No one ever asked me to skip NBC, it was 100% my choice.

    2-St.Jude's- every group is tasked with a challenge to raise money for various charities including Habitat for Humanity or what have you. Choice receives no tax credits for it to my knowledge and if I had to speculate I'd say that in helping facilitate the fundraising it actually costs Choice money.

    3. Discovery- the first weekend is the initial training that is designed to prepare you for Breakthrough and then Leadership if you choose to continue you with the course. I think Nick's post best describes what the training actually entails pretty well.

    4. Relationships- my relationship with my brother, who has not attended Choice and likely won't, has never been better. I call him more often, and am much more accepting of our differences. As far as people in the class, there are definitely a decent number of people in that class that I see as life long friends. Romantically, no one has ever pushed me to be in a relationship with anyone from class, in fact, it's heavily frowned upon. The class isn't a place to "meet chicks" if that's what you were wondering :-) 30 days after you graduate from class, you are free to date whoever you please which I think is a great rule.
    Interesting that he had issues with his brother. I never knew that. Come to think of it, does Daniel ever mention his parents in any of his blogs? I'm starting to wonder if he is distant from his entire immediate family, which would explain why he is so susceptible to garbage like this.
    His mom used to be on all the poker shows with him, delivering his meals, she had a stroke in Feb 2009: My Mother is Very Sick

    And passed away Mommy is Gone in November.

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    WTF is the big deal. This sounds like a leadership/teamwork seminar that happens hundreds of times every year all over the world. I've been to one of these(2 weekends 1 month apart) paid for by the company I work for. The vast majority of attendees for mine were executives in fortune 500 companies that are sent by the company they work for.

    The one I attended concentrated on effective communication & teamwork to make you a more effective leader in the business world &, therefore, life in general. I still use things I learned to communicate better in my personal life. I'm work away from home & am gone half the time so this was very beneficial for me. It sounds like this group is being credited with financial gains by people who attended but I would never claim this. I will credit it with helping my wife & I to effectively communicate our financial goals/goals in life & get our financial house in order.

    Again, WTF is the problem here. I may be totally out to lunch & this particular one may be a scam but these "Leadership/Team Building" seminars happen all the time in every major city in North America. Has everybody been living under a rock & have never heard of these. I would guess that every large corporation in North America uses these types of training & this is exactly what this sounds like to me.

    BTW, I attended this 8 years ago & have never been directly contacted again by the entity running my seminar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy View Post
    WTF is the big deal. This sounds like a leadership/teamwork seminar that happens hundreds of times every year all over the world. I've been to one of these(2 weekends 1 month apart) paid for by the company I work for. The vast majority of attendees for mine were executives in fortune 500 companies that are sent by the company they work for.

    The one I attended concentrated on effective communication & teamwork to make you a more effective leader in the business world &, therefore, life in general. I still use things I learned to communicate better in my personal life. I'm work away from home & am gone half the time so this was very beneficial for me. It sounds like this group is being credited with financial gains by people who attended but I would never claim this. I will credit it with helping my wife & I to effectively communicate our financial goals/goals in life & get our financial house in order.

    Again, WTF is the problem here. I may be totally out to lunch & this particular one may be a scam but these "Leadership/Team Building" seminars happen all the time in every major city in North America. Has everybody been living under a rock & have never heard of these. I would guess that every large corporation in North America uses these types of training & this is exactly what this sounds like to me.

    BTW, I attended this 8 years ago & have never been directly contacted again by the entity running my seminar.
    Unless you went to a Choice Center one I don't see how your experience is relevant. Of course we've heard of leadership seminars.
    "You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamiller866 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Someone on Daniel's FCP forum asked him a few questions:




    Daniel answered, sort of:



    Interesting that he had issues with his brother. I never knew that. Come to think of it, does Daniel ever mention his parents in any of his blogs? I'm starting to wonder if he is distant from his entire immediate family, which would explain why he is so susceptible to garbage like this.
    His mom used to be on all the poker shows with him, delivering his meals, she had a stroke in Feb 2009: My Mother is Very Sick

    And passed away Mommy is Gone in November.
    Ah, okay. Has he ever talked about his father?

    If his mother was his only close family member, and he lost her in 2009, this would also be a reason he could be susceptible to crap like this.

    Basically, these sorts of groups appeal to both people without direction in their lives and ones who feel that they don't have any really close, loving relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    Unless you went to a Choice Center one I don't see how your experience is relevant. Of course we've heard of leadership seminars.
    No it was not Choice Center but I've yet to read one thing that indicates it's anything other than a Leadership Seminar that happen all over the place. Don't see what's so special about this one other than a few poker players attended.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    Unless you went to a Choice Center one I don't see how your experience is relevant. Of course we've heard of leadership seminars.
    No it was not Choice Center but I've yet to read one thing that indicates it's anything other than a Leadership Seminar that happen all over the place. Don't see what's so special about this one other than a few poker players attended.
    Maybe its "F" rating from the BBB?
    "You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    Maybe its "F" rating from the BBB?
    Fair enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy View Post
    WTF is the big deal. This sounds like a leadership/teamwork seminar that happens hundreds of times every year all over the world. I've been to one of these(2 weekends 1 month apart) paid for by the company I work for. The vast majority of attendees for mine were executives in fortune 500 companies that are sent by the company they work for.

    The one I attended concentrated on effective communication & teamwork to make you a more effective leader in the business world &, therefore, life in general. I still use things I learned to communicate better in my personal life. I'm work away from home & am gone half the time so this was very beneficial for me. It sounds like this group is being credited with financial gains by people who attended but I would never claim this. I will credit it with helping my wife & I to effectively communicate our financial goals/goals in life & get our financial house in order.

    Again, WTF is the problem here. I may be totally out to lunch & this particular one may be a scam but these "Leadership/Team Building" seminars happen all the time in every major city in North America. Has everybody been living under a rock & have never heard of these. I would guess that every large corporation in North America uses these types of training & this is exactly what this sounds like to me.

    BTW, I attended this 8 years ago & have never been directly contacted again by the entity running my seminar.
    Leadership seminars by themselves are not a bad thing.

    There are plenty of legitimate ones, especially ones that are more directed at the business world than people's personal lives.

    However, from what I can gather from Choice Center, they are running a really expensive "Large Group Awareness Training" course, in two parts -- "Discovery" and "Breakthrough". The first two parts don't appear to be particularly cult-like, and seem to be mostly encouraging psychobabble to supposedly make people discover things about themselves and change their lives.

    The scam/cult aspect seems to be the third part -- "Leadership Legacy". Even Nick Binger, a proud graduate of Choice Center, was skeptical about this part. Basically, a certain percentage of the Discovery/Breakthrough "graduates" move on to the "Leadership Legacy" course. This course extends over 3 months, and puts high pressure on its participants to recruit friends and family.

    I think I understand what they're doing here.

    They are providing an overpriced "self-improvement" course to suckers in the first two parts. Knowing that only some will walk away feeling like it changed their lives, these initial courses are the "weeders" to see which people are really willing to cheerlead for Choice Center for the long haul. Those who are iffy about the whole thing are likely to drop out at this point. The more enthusiastic graduates move on to "Leadership Legacy", where it is assumed that they are already drunk on Choice Center kool-aid, and are therefore easy to use to recruit others at that point.

    This is actually a common scam tactic -- testing potential victims for susceptibility before investing time and effort into conning them. Even Nigerian scammers do this. When you get those Nigerian e-mails asking for your banking info, you might think they're looking to steal directly out of your account, but that's not what they're doing. They are trying to identify the suckers dumb enough to provide that information, figuring they will be easy marks.

    Choice Center is likely not directly scamming anyone, but rather convincing depressed, lonely, and downtrodden people that their lives have been changed by the program, and then in turn use these people as free recruiters. They especially love public figures such as Negreanu and Esfandiari, as their recruitment carries a lot more weight than the average unknown Joe.

    What about the charity aspect? That is probably legitimate, but it's attached exactly for that reason -- to provide legitimacy. This way Choice Center has an immediate answer when their motive are questioned: "Look at all the money we raised for charity!"

    Anyone who thinks that Choice Center isn't complete garbage just needs to look at the "Leadership Legacy" segment, where members are pressed to recruit. Legitimate leadership seminars do not behave in such a fashion.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tamiller866 View Post

    His mom used to be on all the poker shows with him, delivering his meals, she had a stroke in Feb 2009: My Mother is Very Sick

    And passed away Mommy is Gone in November.
    Ah, okay. Has he ever talked about his father?

    If his mother was his only close family member, and he lost her in 2009, this would also be a reason he could be susceptible to crap like this.

    Basically, these sorts of groups appeal to both people without direction in their lives and ones who feel that they don't have any really close, loving relationships.
    He's mentioned his dad being old school hard working guy, died when Daniel was a teen I believe, but it's really that mommy dying issue that I believe messed him up so badly.

    She was his live-in chef in Vegas, but when she had the stroke, Daniel didn't believe people should have to pay for medical care, so he he flew her back (international flight unlikely good for stoke victims) to Canada to get free health care, then she never recovered - and I don't think he ever recovered from the guilt of putting her on that plane.

  19. #19
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Here is some Choice Center "homework" from the Breakthrough course:

    (note: This came from Donkdown, but was rotated and re-ordered by me for easier readability)








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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I should explain the "F" rating from the BBB.

    It's not as bad as it seems, but still doesn't make Choice look good.

    Basically, the BBB received 3 complaints about Choice. The exact details of these complaints was not provided, but were placed in the category "Problems with Product / Service".

    Presumably, all three complaints were people who paid for Choice, realized it was complete bullshit, demanded their 2600 dolla back, and were denied.

    The first complaint was in 2010. That one was "resolved with BBB assistance". Presumably, Choice gave the person some or all of their money back, just to avoid the dreaded "F" BBB rating.

    A second complaint came in 2011. Again, the BBB contacted Choice, but they refused to "resolve" the issue. I'm guessing that Choice realized that this would be an ongoing problem if people could simply complain to the BBB every time they wanted their seminar money back, so they told the BBB (and the disgruntled customer) to go kick rocks.

    A third complaint came in 2012. The BBB again contacted Choice, but they did not respond. Presumably, Choice decided that they were going to ignore all BBB complaints after they couldn't come to terms with the previous one.

    Why the "F" rating?

    The BBB apparently gives your business an F rating if you refuse to respond to them after a long period of time, refuse to resolve the complaints, or a combination of both. So despite the fact that there were just 3 complaints (1 of which was resolved), the BBB still gives them an F.

    Definitely Choice deserves a low rating for their recent lack of cooperation with the BBB, but I really think "F" should be reserved for businesses with a large number of complaints in comparison to its size. For example, if I started a small business selling computers, and they got 50 complaints about me in 6 months, that would warrant an F rating. Three complaints should never warrant an F rating, unless there is direct evidence that the company is literally stealing from its customers.

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