Mason Malmutt on Annie, Howard, Poker World Magazine, lawsuits, Dutch. from 4 pokercast

[Crowe Diddly]

While I enjoy SixToe's view of this whole thing, it is fairly silly to think that Dutch came out ahead in this whole thing somehow. I mean, if Mason had like a $60K a year income and spent that much on lawyers for a judgment he likely won't ever see, sure, Dutch wins the moral victory I guess. But that isn't the case, not by a longshot.

Mason is cold, humorless, vindictive, and a pretty f'n solid business man. He vigorously defends his intellectual property, like all good businesses would. Dutch is a terrible business man, and far from a sympathetic character, IMO. Dutch threw a rock at the 2p2 giant, or maybe just threw a rock that happened to hit the giant, and the giant smashed him for it. Sure it took some effort for the giant, but not a whole lot relatively, and the giant got satisfaction from it.

the giant won.

[Jasep]

Pete, in general I am a big fan, but you being such a Dutch Boyd sympathizer is kind of annoying. Even if with the payment processor issue he is still ultimately responsible for paying those players and he had multiple opportunities to since then and still never made even a small effort to correct any of it, and he openly lied to his users. He also clearly registered that domain for either the potential to make profit or maliciously, either way it was wrong and he deserves to go through whatever he goes through over it.

[Sandwich]

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" - 'King Henry VI'. (Act IV, Scene II) William Shakespeare.

Dick the Butcher, the anarchist buffoon? Fitting.

Jack Cade: "There shall be in England seven half-penny loaves sold for a penny: the three-hoop'd pot shall have ten hoops; and I will make it felony to drink small beer: all the realm shall be in common; and in Cheapside shall my palfrey go to grass: and when I am king,- as king I will be ... I thank you, good people:- there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score; and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord."

Dutch the Boyd: "The first thing we do... let's steal intellectual property for lulz and profit!"

[Sandwich]

Here is another quote: "The lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."

Losing on summary judgment in a case such as this is Sofa King pathetic! (what's the standard? all he needed to do is raise a question of materal fact to require a jury trial?)

[pokeremtdj]

Mason Malmutt can't win.

However, if you've ever read his books, you know the guy is smart. So why would Mason Malmutt waste so much time and so much money over a trivial dispute he knows he can't win?

Perhaps it's because the guy is just a certifiable first class asshole.

I was trying to work out the motivation for the Mason domain name bullshit.

There's been two cases brought - Dutch Boyd and Anthony Scocozza. Why go after these guys? I've got a feeling it might be because of their close association with Donkdown. Boyd has been a known guest on radio over the years. Scocozza is a pseudonym for a long standing donkdown forum member.

Mason's hatred for the site is well known. He must hate the fact that all the stuff he wants to censor on 4 just crops up on donkdown (and no doubt on PFA now too). I wonder whether he just threw money at these cases as a warning shot to others, that he will go after anyone who doesn't subscribe to the Mason way of thinking with his big gun lawyers.

It's a poor showing on the legal system that these ruthless pricks with deep pockets can screw over the small guy who has very little protection as they can't afford to defend any action.

Druff correct me if I'm a little wrong here but didn't Sklansky once said he would pay $2000 to cost you $1000.

When you're up against this sort of bullshit with Sklansky/Mallmuth, all logic is left behind.

Malmuth is quite simply the living breathing example of Napoleon syndrome in the poker world. Small man with inferiority complex deep down. His inferiority complex of course is easily explained the Poker world as a whole knows Malmuth is a fraud the guy has never cashed let alone win a major poker tournament despite supposedly being some poker God. Now somebody said Mason had some success in BJ well Blackjack theory isnt the same as poker and Id dare say Andy Bloch and the MIT guys have the bible on BJ theory well versed. Masons obsession with Micon and the Donkdown/NWP crowd is well known to not only the long timers but even in the general poker community which I think alot find amusing especially when Mason went ape shit over the whole porno picture posted on NWP awhile back with Mason trying to force PN to have it removed. Now I have to ask the question to Druff because there is a rumor that supposed Mason or somebody on 2+2 told Druff he was welcome to return to 2+2 since he and Micon had parted ways. To me if true shows how idiotic any action taken against Druff was to begin with, that quite simply Druff was banned based on his association with Micon, if true, shows how petty minded Mason really is.

[Shizzmoney]

As soon as you get lawyers involved, no-one wins except the lawyers.

[SixToedPete]

While I enjoy SixToe's view of this whole thing, it is fairly silly to think that Dutch came out ahead in this whole thing somehow. I mean, if Mason had like a $60K a year income and spent that much on lawyers for a judgment he likely won't ever see, sure, Dutch wins the moral victory I guess. But that isn't the case, not by a longshot.

Mason is cold, humorless, vindictive, and a pretty f'n solid business man. He vigorously defends his intellectual property, like all good businesses would. Dutch is a terrible business man, and far from a sympathetic character, IMO. Dutch threw a rock at the 2p2 giant, or maybe just threw a rock that happened to hit the giant, and the giant smashed him for it. Sure it took some effort for the giant, but not a whole lot relatively, and the giant got satisfaction from it.

the giant won.

Mason Malmuth's net worth does not mitigate his foolishness in spending @$34,000 to win control over a $10 domain name he already owned. There is no way around this.

Just because he has money, that makes his behavior OK, something to be admired? That's like saying if he boycotted Charmin over a minor beef and decided to wipe his ass with rolls of $100 bills, that's fine with you because he's wealthy and derived satisfaction flushing shit-stained C-notes down the toilet.

Even though there was no damage to 2plus2 while Boyd controlled the domain name and Dutch transferred the $10 name to Mason's lawyers, Malmuth imprudently continued to spend great gobs of money chasing a ten dollar name he already owned.

He was NOT protecting his 'intellectual property' and he was certainly NOT behaving like a wise businessman. It's reasonable to imagine Dutch felt that Malmuth was acting like a bully shakedown artist as he demanded $15,000 to make the problem go away.

Mason left Dutch no option except to defend himself and thereby win in the end.

Pete, in general I am a big fan, but you being such a Dutch Boyd sympathizer is kind of annoying. Even if with the payment processor issue he is still ultimately responsible for paying those players and he had multiple opportunities to since then and still never made even a small effort to correct any of it, and he openly lied to his users. He also clearly registered that domain for either the potential to make profit or maliciously, either way it was wrong and he deserves to go through whatever he goes through over it.

My comments about Dutch Boyd being defrauded by payment processors were only meant to balance other posters' one-sided criticisms about that incident. It's important to know the full story.

Dutch may have pursued an ill-advised IM strategy with that $10 domain name but there was never any 'malice'. It's crucial to remember Boyd made no money with the domain name AND RETURNED IT TO MASON long before the lawsuit was filed.

You seem to believe Dutch deserved to be a victim of what some feel is legal extortion. I do not.

[Rollo Tomasi]

[Belly Buster]

That's like saying if he boycotted Charmin over a minor beef and decided to wipe his ass with rolls of $100 bills, that's fine with you because he's wealthy and derived satisfaction flushing shit-stained C-notes down the toilet.

[Shizzmoney]

Mason Malmuth's net worth does not mitigate his foolishness in spending @$34,000 to win control over a $10 domain name he already owned. There is no way around this.

Just because he has money, that makes his behavior OK, something to be admired? That's like saying if he boycotted Charmin over a minor beef and decided to wipe his ass with rolls of $100 bills, that's fine with you because he's wealthy and derived satisfaction flushing shit-stained C-notes down the toilet.

Well sooner or later, that Charmin toilet paper roll is gonna be worth more than those $100 bills, anyways.

[v12cl]

If you assume any publicity is good publicity, Mason picked a good target and got his 34k worth. Any extra personal satisfaction he may have felt in sinking Dutch was just added value. Plus, you know Mason has sued enough people to have some friendly lawyers working on his behalf. I highly doubt he is out $34k.

[SixToedPete]

Mason Malmuth's net worth does not mitigate his foolishness in spending @$34,000 to win control over a $10 domain name he already owned. There is no way around this.

Just because he has money, that makes his behavior OK, something to be admired? That's like saying if he boycotted Charmin over a minor beef and decided to wipe his ass with rolls of $100 bills, that's fine with you because he's wealthy and derived satisfaction flushing shit-stained C-notes down the toilet.

Well sooner or later, that Charmin toilet paper roll is gonna be worth more than those $100 bills, anyways.

LOL. Sad but true.

[SixToedPete]

If you assume any publicity is good publicity, Mason picked a good target and got his 34k worth. Any extra personal satisfaction he may have felt in sinking Dutch was just added value. Plus, you know Mason has sued enough people to have some friendly lawyers working on his behalf. I highly doubt he is out $34k.

If you 'assume' your aunt has a big pair of balls, well then, she's actually your uncle.

If you 'assume' Mason Malmuth's lawyers worked pro bono, your uncle has a fool for a nephew.

[Dan Druff]

Before I give my takes on this, keep in mind that I don't like Mason Malmuth, he likely HATES me, and I am banned from his forum despite the fact that he admits I never broke a rule there.

Domain squatting is stealing. It may not be criminally punishable, but there are civil remedies against it (as demonstrated by Malmuth in the Boyd case), and these are always justified.

Basically, domain squatters take either your brand or your personal name, register a domain for themselves with that (or a very similar) name, and seek to earn a profit from internet traffic meant for you or your company. It's leechy, bottom-feeding behavior, and domain squatters deserve zero sympathy in the few cases where they get comeuppance.

This is especially true when the domain squatting is being done for profit (as it was by Dutch), rather than out of personal vendetta. I can at least have a little bit of respect for the domain squatter doing it to fuck with someone they don't like. I mean, I'm not saying that's right, but at least that person can somewhat justify it by saying, "This person did XXXX to me, so this is what I'm doing back to them."

Domain squatting for profit targets people and businesses simply because they're notable, and money can be made by stealing their internet traffic.

Dutch made a really lame excuse as to why he registered twoplustwopoker.com. He claimed it was during a domain registration frenzy of his, and that it was one of about 400 poker-related domain names he registered. He claimed he "didn't think about stealing Two Plus Two's traffic" when registering it. Bullshit. Two Plus Two is a brand name. If it were not for twoplustwo.com and Two Plus Two Publishing (both Mason's companies), the term "Two Plus Two" would have absolutely nothing to do with poker. It is only associated with poker because of Mason's companies. This is important because it's not like Dutch registered "royalflushpoker.com" and the owner of "royalflush.com" sued him. It stands to reason that many people would want to register royalflushpoker.com even without knowing about royalflush.com. Nobody would ever register twoplustwopoker.com unless they were looking to steal twoplustwo.com's traffic.

Simply put, Dutch stole Mason's traffic, Mason sued him, Dutch lost, and that's completely fair and right.

Dutch claims that he gave twoplustwo.com back to Mason when asked for it. I'm not sure about that. Did Dutch give it back IMMEDIATELY upon being asked, or only after some pressure and legal threats? I doubt this because I know someone personally who had his domain grabbed by Dutch when he let it expire, and Dutch made him pay in order to get it back. It's very possible that Dutch tried to negotiate a price with Mason, and then Mason got pissed, hired a lawyer, and demanded the return. Sometime after that, Dutch returned the domain for free, and Mason still sued him. If that's what happened, then Mason did the right thing by suing Dutch, as he shouldn't have to spend money on lawyers to get his own property back.

If I were in Mason's shoes, I wouldn't have sued Dutch if he gave me twoplustwopoker.com immediately upon request. If he dicked me around and I had to get a lawyer involved, I would definitely sue him for whatever I could get at that point.

Regarding Dutch and Pokerspot, I agree that he walked away with no money, but he did two things very wrong:

1) He kept encouraging people to deposit when he knew the company was in huge trouble, acting as if everything was still fine. This was fraud.

2) He has made zero attempt to pay back anyone that got screwed by Pokerspot, instead blaming it all on the payment processor that screwed his company. While the payment processor DID indeed screw Pokerspot, that's on him for choosing that particular processor. The people trusting Pokerspot with their money were not trusting a faceless payment processor -- they were trusting Boyd and Pokerspot. When Pokerspot failed, it was on Pokerspot (and by extension Boyd) to make it right. Dutch chose not to because it was much easier to walk away than do the right thing and assume such a large debt.

[SixToedPete]

Before I give my takes on this, keep in mind that I don't like Mason Malmuth, he likely HATES me, and I am banned from his forum despite the fact that he admits I never broke a rule there.

Domain squatting is stealing. It may not be criminally punishable, but there are civil remedies against it (as demonstrated by Malmuth in the Boyd case), and these are always justified.

Basically, domain squatters take either your brand or your personal name, register a domain for themselves with that (or a very similar) name, and seek to earn a profit from internet traffic meant for you or your company. It's leechy, bottom-feeding behavior, and domain squatters deserve zero sympathy in the few cases where they get comeuppance.

This is especially true when the domain squatting is being done for profit (as it was by Dutch), rather than out of personal vendetta. I can at least have a little bit of respect for the domain squatter doing it to fuck with someone they don't like. I mean, I'm not saying that's right, but at least that person can somewhat justify it by saying, "This person did XXXX to me, so this is what I'm doing back to them."

Domain squatting for profit targets people and businesses simply because they're notable, and money can be made by stealing their internet traffic.

Dutch made a really lame excuse as to why he registered twoplustwopoker.com. He claimed it was during a domain registration frenzy of his, and that it was one of about 400 poker-related domain names he registered. He claimed he "didn't think about stealing Two Plus Two's traffic" when registering it. Bullshit. Two Plus Two is a brand name. If it were not for twoplustwo.com and Two Plus Two Publishing (both Mason's companies), the term "Two Plus Two" would have absolutely nothing to do with poker. It is only associated with poker because of Mason's companies. This is important because it's not like Dutch registered "royalflushpoker.com" and the owner of "royalflush.com" sued him. It stands to reason that many people would want to register royalflushpoker.com even without knowing about royalflush.com. Nobody would ever register twoplustwopoker.com unless they were looking to steal twoplustwo.com's traffic.

Simply put, Dutch stole Mason's traffic, Mason sued him, Dutch lost, and that's completely fair and right.

Dutch claims that he gave twoplustwo.com back to Mason when asked for it. I'm not sure about that. Did Dutch give it back IMMEDIATELY upon being asked, or only after some pressure and legal threats? I doubt this because I know someone personally who had his domain grabbed by Dutch when he let it expire, and Dutch made him pay in order to get it back. It's very possible that Dutch tried to negotiate a price with Mason, and then Mason got pissed, hired a lawyer, and demanded the return. Sometime after that, Dutch returned the domain for free, and Mason still sued him. If that's what happened, then Mason did the right thing by suing Dutch, as he shouldn't have to spend money on lawyers to get his own property back.

If I were in Mason's shoes, I wouldn't have sued Dutch if he gave me twoplustwopoker.com immediately upon request. If he dicked me around and I had to get a lawyer involved, I would definitely sue him for whatever I could get at that point.

Regarding Dutch and Pokerspot, I agree that he walked away with no money, but he did two things very wrong:

1) He kept encouraging people to deposit when he knew the company was in huge trouble, acting as if everything was still fine. This was fraud.

2) He has made zero attempt to pay back anyone that got screwed by Pokerspot, instead blaming it all on the payment processor that screwed his company. While the payment processor DID indeed screw Pokerspot, that's on him for choosing that particular processor. The people trusting Pokerspot with their money were not trusting a faceless payment processor -- they were trusting Boyd and Pokerspot. When Pokerspot failed, it was on Pokerspot (and by extension Boyd) to make it right. Dutch chose not to because it was much easier to walk away than do the right thing and assume such a large debt.

Not that I'm prescient but with several earlier posts in this thread I've already addressed many of Druff's pertinent points.

Some additional thoughts.

Domain squatting is not so cut and dry as Druff implies. Although many domain squatting lawsuits are legitimate and necessary it's important to recognize that lawyers and lawyers' lobbies were the catalyst for growth in this area of law. They made much more of this 'threat' than was warranted because lawyers are the true 'bottom feeders'. 2010 was a banner year for cybersquatting lawyer fees!

Purchasing a domain name similar to a popular existing domain name, even to garner traffic, is not always a violation of civil law and contrary to Druff's statement, penalties are not always justified. For example a couple of years ago, President Clinton lost his mediation case to someone who used these domain names:

williamclinton.com
williamjclinton.com
presidentbillclinton.com

http://domains.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/1256123.htm

And those domain names were all used to drive traffic to a GOP website! So when Druff says, 'Simply put, Dutch stole Mason's traffic, Mason sued him, Dutch lost, and that's completely fair and right', that is only Druff's opinion and one I do not share. Mason Malmuth's 'win' was only a summary judgement. Dutch Boyd deserved an honest resolution, a verdict and not a dismissive summary judgement which can be made without the defendant even being present. Dutch has appealed, plus as I mentioned in earlier posts, has other options that will preclude Malmuth from ever collecting a dime.

Recent greedy lawyers' actions and legitimate cases aside, when there has been an actionable violation the vast majority of such cases are resolved amicably out of court. There are also arbitration options that utilize the Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy to work out such issues. Mason Malmuth never seriously pursued these 'fair and right' avenues.

Druff also makes huge leaps when painting a picture of what might have occurred during Malmuth's and Boyd's communications. That was pure speculation.

What we do know is Mason had control over the name long, long before the lawsuit was filed. Druff speculated that Dutch was trying to get money from Mason however Dutch has publicly stated it was Mason who demanded $15,000 from Dutch AFTER Mason had ownership of the domain name. Dutch has emails that prove this.

Druff's conjecture that Dutch pressed Mason for money falls flat when we know Dutch allowed the domain name registration to expire. How could he demand money for a domain he had no control over? (Even I have misstated in earlier posts that Dutch returned the $10 name but it seems Dutch had let it expire.) The only 'dicking around' was done by Malmuth.

I believe Malmuth's behavior in this matter reveals his character and is just another example of why he is so despised in the poker community.

Most of my posts in this thread addressed Mason Malmuth's podcast comments about the Dutch Boyd $10 domain name lawsuit. I only explained my take on the Poker Spot debacle to give readers a more complete understanding of what occurred because some posters brought up only part of the story. I agree it was fug-ugly but it is not germane to Malmuth's podast remarks or his despicably wasteful and foolish legal shenanigans.

Note. I just clicked the PresidentBillClinton.com domain name I mentioned above. It goes right to a Republican National Committee website!

[BeerAndPoker]

Pete, in general I am a big fan, but you being such a Dutch Boyd sympathizer is kind of annoying. Even if with the payment processor issue he is still ultimately responsible for paying those players and he had multiple opportunities to since then and still never made even a small effort to correct any of it, and he openly lied to his users. He also clearly registered that domain for either the potential to make profit or maliciously, either way it was wrong and he deserves to go through whatever he goes through over it.

Same goes for you dumb fuck.

It's LOL at the random gems you can find that Jasep posted in the past doing a forum search looking for some relevant topic name to post something under.

The only reason I'm bumping this is it came through for a Mason forum search and the Juan post made it a must bump.

Anyways, isn't Mason is just one of the most socially awkward individuals ever?



Some of the stuff he says in this interview is full of shit he don't care about other sites besides 2+2 like he claims.

[BUBBLES]

http://t.co/5MRYOy0sKa
Dutch Boyd Owes Two Plus Two $60K After U.S. District Court Upholds 2012 Judgement

May 05, 2014


After a more than five-year legal battle, Dutch Boyd is being forced to pay up.

On Friday, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a March 2012 judgement against Boyd, claiming he acted in bad faith in registering the domain name "twoplustwopoker.com." Two years ago, U.S. District Court Judge Kent Dawson ruled that the two-time World Series of Poker bracelet winner's infringement was "deliberate and willful," awarding Two Plus Two Publishing LLC. $25,000 in statutory damages and $33,985 in attorney fees.

"[It's] definitely a bad beat," Boyd told PokerNews on Monday. “I guess there is one more person rooting for me to have a really successful Series this summer.”

Two Plus Two first filed suit against Boyd and Anthony Scocozza in December of 2009, claiming the defendants' actions, "disrupted or are intended to disrupt Two Plus Two’s business by, among other things, diverting web users away from Two Plus Two’s Web sites and forums."

Mason Malmuth, owner of Two Plus Two, denied comment, saying that he will release a statement on the popular "News Views and Gossip" forum. He then wrote the following on the forum:

"We'll be making a statement in the near future. But we're very happy with this decision."

This isn't Boyd's first notable off-the-felt incident; in 2012 he publicly sold a 14k gold bracelet that he won in a preliminary event in the 2008 Five Diamond poker series held at Bellagio.

"It's a nice looking (sic) bracelet, but I've never worn it," he wrote at the time. "So I'm selling it to raise some Christmas cash."

[TheXFactor]

Bryan Micon will quit smoking marijuana forever before Dutch Boyd pays Mason Malmuth $60,000.

[zealanddonk]

Looks like Dutch will have to kickstart a coupla more poker books

[haleylh]

Looks like Dutch will have to kickstart a coupla more poker books

Well, there ya go. Mason can edit Dutch's book and cut out the legal middleman. Then again, I've seen Mason's editing jobs. I think he uses a trowel and glue gun.