Harrah's/Caesar's at it again with the fail...

[Dan Druff]

Both of these signs are currently standing at Caesar's properties.

This one is at Harrah's:



Seems okay if you don't understand how odds work.

However, if you do, you realize that Harrah's is bragging about a 50% chance of fun at their property, since 1:1 odds mean a 50-50 chance.



The second one is less of a marketing fail and more of a pricing/promotional fail:



This sign is sitting in several areas of the Rio.

Again, nothing seems wrong with it at first glance...

... until you realize that the best deal is buying the least amount of credits!

You get $50 in credits for $35.

You get $100 in credits for $75.

You get $200 in credits for $150.

Aside from being pointless to commit to $200 if you can simply buy $100 twice for the same price, the worst fail here is the fact that you can buy $50 twice and save $5 over buying $100. So you can simply purchase two $50 credit packages for $70, rather than spending $75 for $100 in credit. Not only that, you will have the flexibility of only buying $50 at first, and only buying the second $50 if you need it!

From what I can tell, you can buy as many of these as you want, so it's not a matter of the first $50 being cheaper because you can't take advantage of it more than once. I believe they just give you a card or something that gives you $50 in credit, and you can keep buying them to your heart's content.

This isn't even a matter of having to go through a lot of trouble to save $5. There is simply NO REASON to ever buy a $100 card for $75 when you can buy two $50s for $70.

[Jasep]

Those two things are very LOL and were glaringly obvious at first look.... But I can see where someone who doesn't pay attention to stuff like that would chuckle at the first sign and fall for the second sign

[Daredevil]

This company is always willing to bring the fail.

Also new changes coming to the TR program, spoiler alert, it will be worse in 2013!

[abrown83]

This company is always willing to bring the fail.

Also new changes coming to the TR program, spoiler alert, it will be worse in 2013!

This is dependent on your situation.

If you gamble a little bit on a regular basis you are going to get fucked by the new program.

If you gamble more but not as often then you are going to be rewarded.

This makes total sense for CET. If you go every week no matter what and gamble a $100, they view you as a regular customer and you are probably going to go either way.

If you gamble once in a while for large amounts, they want you to come back more often.

What they are introducing is bonus tier points so that if you hit certain gambling levels in a day you get bonus points.

Basically if you go gambling a few times a year for a couple thousand dollars you are going to get more comps than the $100 a week person. I think this makes a lot of sense on multiple levels.

[RobbieBensonFan]

Both of these signs are currently standing at Caesar's properties.

This one is at Harrah's:



Seems okay if you don't understand how odds work.

However, if you do, you realize that Harrah's is bragging about a 50% chance of fun at their property, since 1:1 odds mean a 50-50 chance.



The second one is less of a marketing fail and more of a pricing/promotional fail:



This sign is sitting in several areas of the Rio.

Again, nothing seems wrong with it at first glance...

... until you realize that the best deal is buying the least amount of credits!

You get $50 in credits for $35.

You get $100 in credits for $75.

You get $200 in credits for $150.

Aside from being pointless to commit to $200 if you can simply buy $100 twice for the same price, the worst fail here is the fact that you can buy $50 twice and save $5 over buying $100. So you can simply purchase two $50 credit packages for $70, rather than spending $75 for $100 in credit. Not only that, you will have the flexibility of only buying $50 at first, and only buying the second $50 if you need it!

From what I can tell, you can buy as many of these as you want, so it's not a matter of the first $50 being cheaper because you can't take advantage of it more than once. I believe they just give you a card or something that gives you $50 in credit, and you can keep buying them to your heart's content.

This isn't even a matter of having to go through a lot of trouble to save $5. There is simply NO REASON to ever buy a $100 card for $75 when you can buy two $50s for $70.

The first ad is terribly tilting. Not because of the whole 1:1 deal. That is fine, as most non traditional gamblers will see that differently than Druff. I see it as your odds are guaranteed on having fun. Not a big deal.

However, who authorized the period? 1:1.

Now what a lot of people would notice, is where are the numbers after the decimal point? I am sure this edit was from someone who recently graduated from a low level school, and made the last second grammar edit, not realizing that the period while grammatically correct was completely unnecessary in the world of Marketing.

This is where a high end MBA from a great school coupled with real life work experience comes into play. The person who made the final edits had one of these traits, unfortunately not both. Probably graduated from some MAC school with a degree in Advertising or a social science.

[handicapme]

Both of these signs are currently standing at Caesar's properties.

This one is at Harrah's:



Seems okay if you don't understand how odds work.

However, if you do, you realize that Harrah's is bragging about a 50% chance of fun at their property, since 1:1 odds mean a 50-50 chance.



The second one is less of a marketing fail and more of a pricing/promotional fail:



This sign is sitting in several areas of the Rio.

Again, nothing seems wrong with it at first glance...

... until you realize that the best deal is buying the least amount of credits!

You get $50 in credits for $35.

You get $100 in credits for $75.

You get $200 in credits for $150.

Aside from being pointless to commit to $200 if you can simply buy $100 twice for the same price, the worst fail here is the fact that you can buy $50 twice and save $5 over buying $100. So you can simply purchase two $50 credit packages for $70, rather than spending $75 for $100 in credit. Not only that, you will have the flexibility of only buying $50 at first, and only buying the second $50 if you need it!

From what I can tell, you can buy as many of these as you want, so it's not a matter of the first $50 being cheaper because you can't take advantage of it more than once. I believe they just give you a card or something that gives you $50 in credit, and you can keep buying them to your heart's content.

This isn't even a matter of having to go through a lot of trouble to save $5. There is simply NO REASON to ever buy a $100 card for $75 when you can buy two $50s for $70.

The first ad is terribly tilting. Not because of the whole 1:1 deal. That is fine, as most non traditional gamblers will see that differently than Druff. I see it as your odds are guaranteed on having fun. Not a big deal.

However, who authorized the period? 1:1.

Now what a lot of people would notice, is where are the numbers after the decimal point? I am sure this edit was from someone who recently graduated from a low level school, and made the last second grammar edit, not realizing that the period while grammatically correct was completely unnecessary in the world of Marketing.

This is where a high end MBA from a great school coupled with real life work experience comes into play. The person who made the final edits had one of these traits, unfortunately not both. Probably graduated from some MAC school with a degree in Advertising or a social science.

you know normally I think azzclown is just hating because that's all he knows how to do... but fuck man, you really are the worst.

[Walter Sobchak]

I agree these signs are ridiculous, but if the target customers understood math they wouldn't go to casinos in the first place.

[Crowe Diddly]

if the target customers understood math they wouldn't go to casinos in the first place.

Wishful thinking, but incorrect.

[Walter Sobchak]

if the target customers understood math they wouldn't go to casinos in the first place.

Wishful thinking, but incorrect.

Why?

[Crowe Diddly]

Wishful thinking, but incorrect.

Why?

Because people are well known for doing things not in their best interests, especially when it comes to booze, drugs, gambling, sex, etc. Knowledge does nothing to stop that.

The tables, pits, and slots are filled with people who know the odds are stacked against them. They just really like gambling. Most of this board has probably willingly played -ev games knowingly, and enthusiastically.

[Walter Sobchak]

Why?

Because people are well known for doing things not in their best interests, especially when it comes to booze, drugs, gambling, sex, etc. Knowledge does nothing to stop that.

The tables, pits, and slots are filled with people who know the odds are stacked against them. They just really like gambling. Most of this board has probably willingly played -ev games knowingly, and enthusiastically.

Yes I see what you mean and concur.

[HEX]

Both of these signs are currently standing at Caesar's properties.

This one is at Harrah's:



Seems okay if you don't understand how odds work.

However, if you do, you realize that Harrah's is bragging about a 50% chance of fun at their property, since 1:1 odds mean a 50-50 chance.



The second one is less of a marketing fail and more of a pricing/promotional fail:



This sign is sitting in several areas of the Rio.

Again, nothing seems wrong with it at first glance...

... until you realize that the best deal is buying the least amount of credits!

You get $50 in credits for $35.

You get $100 in credits for $75.

You get $200 in credits for $150.

Aside from being pointless to commit to $200 if you can simply buy $100 twice for the same price, the worst fail here is the fact that you can buy $50 twice and save $5 over buying $100. So you can simply purchase two $50 credit packages for $70, rather than spending $75 for $100 in credit. Not only that, you will have the flexibility of only buying $50 at first, and only buying the second $50 if you need it!

From what I can tell, you can buy as many of these as you want, so it's not a matter of the first $50 being cheaper because you can't take advantage of it more than once. I believe they just give you a card or something that gives you $50 in credit, and you can keep buying them to your heart's content.

This isn't even a matter of having to go through a lot of trouble to save $5. There is simply NO REASON to ever buy a $100 card for $75 when you can buy two $50s for $70.

The first ad is terribly tilting. Not because of the whole 1:1 deal. That is fine, as most non traditional gamblers will see that differently than Druff. I see it as your odds are guaranteed on having fun. Not a big deal.

However, who authorized the period? 1:1.

Now what a lot of people would notice, is where are the numbers after the decimal point? I am sure this edit was from someone who recently graduated from a low level school, and made the last second grammar edit, not realizing that the period while grammatically correct was completely unnecessary in the world of Marketing.

This is where a high end MBA from a great school coupled with real life work experience comes into play. The person who made the final edits had one of these traits, unfortunately not both. Probably graduated from some MAC school with a degree in Advertising or a social science.

This is serious? Good god.

[MrGreenThumb]

Found this article very interesting, didn't realize quite how bleak their outlook is.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1081...y?source=kizur

After all, Caesars' fundamentals are simply horrific on every level. The company lost $8.37 per share in 2010, $5.50 per share in 2011, and has lost another $8.21 per share in the first nine months of 2012. Its balance sheet is just as ugly; the company has $18.1 billion in net debt (including restricted cash accounting for the company's $610 million sale of Harrah's St. Louis, which closed in October), and a book value per share of just 26 cents, putting its debt-to-equity ratio at a stunning 621.5. Free cash flow numbers are better, but still negative for both 2011 and the first nine months of 2012. But those numbers will get worse in a hurry, as capital expenditures are set to rise sharply due to new projects such as the Linq in Las Vegas. Based on guidance given on the company's Q3 conference call, Q4 capex should be 75-85 percent on the total spent in the entire first nine months, while 2012 full-year expenditures will nearly double those of 2011, with a further increase expected next year.

The avenues to survival -- let alone profitability -- seem to be blocked off for Caesars. Any analysis of the company's current earnings seems to project an equity value of zero, and there should be little expectation that the company can create enough top- and bottom-line growth to overcome its $2 billion annual interest bill and change that valuation before bondholders come calling. In short, it appears overwhelmingly likely that, at some point, Caesars will head into Chapter 11 or some type of restructuring, whether by choice or by a breach of the company's loan covenants. And given the immense amount of debt that is secured by various properties, there will be little, if anything, left for equity holders to recover in such a scenario.

Longer-term, CZR's value appears to be solely tied to the value of the interactive division; but it seems highly unlikely that the asset justifies Caesars' current market capitalization of nearly $1 billion. Caesars has been mum about the division's performance; CEO Loveman noted on the Q3 call that the company was still not interested in breaking out Interactive's performance.

But it seems highly unlikely that the interactive division justifies the company's nearly $1 billion market capitalization. The World Series of Poker brand does have some value, given its television contract with ESPN, currently extended through 2017. Terms were not disclosed, but an interesting comparison would be the National Hockey League. The NHL signed a $200 million per year contract with NBC in 2011. Ratings for the early rounds of the spring 2012 playoffs were for the most part similar to the WSOP's 664,000 viewers for the final table of its Main Event. But NBC also broadcast 100 regular season games, while the conference and Stanley Cup finals saw audiences in excess of one million. As such, the WSOP deal with ESPN -- even given the fact that the programming is re-run year-round -- would seem likely to be cheaper than the NHL's deal with NBC, perhaps in the range of $100-$150 million. Based on a reasonable price-to-sales ratios, even accounting for some of the ancillary revenue from the WSOP (such as merchandising and circuit tournaments), it seems the WSOP asset is valued at no more than $200 million, or less than $2 per share.

And, believe it or not, the WSOP might be the most valuable asset in the division. Caesars may have paid as much as $200 million for Playtika, but given that social gaming giant Zynga currently has an enterprise value in the same range, Playtika's present value is likely well below what Caesars paid. According to AppData, Zynga's Hold 'Em Poker app has 6.6 million daily active users and 32.8 monthly active users. (Both numbers trail Zynga's more popular Farmville game.) Meanwhile, Playtika's Slotomania and the Caesars Casino app combined have just 2.5M daily and 8.2M monthly active users, figures that dramatically trail those of a single Zynga product. As such, it seems highly unlikely that Playtika -- a company with only two products -- has a valuation anywhere near that of Zynga. Despite the price tag, Playtika should be valued at no more than $50 million given current trends.

In short, Caesars' online gambling opportunity has to be worth somewhere in the range of $700 million to justify CZR's current price. It seems unlikely. While CZR bulls tout the value of the WSOP brand in a potential U.S. market, a live WSOP poker site is in fact already live in the UK, in a partnership with 888 Holdings (EIHDF.PK). The WSOP site is in fact just a "skin" for 888's larger player pool, meaning that players are playing on the 888 network, but through the WSOP interface.

[Dan Druff]

Found this article very interesting, didn't realize quite how bleak their outlook is.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1081...y?source=kizur

The avenues to survival -- let alone profitability -- seem to be blocked off for Caesars. Any analysis of the company's current earnings seems to project an equity value of zero, and there should be little expectation that the company can create enough top- and bottom-line growth to overcome its $2 billion annual interest bill and change that valuation before bondholders come calling. In short, it appears overwhelmingly likely that, at some point, Caesars will head into Chapter 11 or some type of restructuring, whether by choice or by a breach of the company's loan covenants. And given the immense amount of debt that is secured by various properties, there will be little, if anything, left for equity holders to recover in such a scenario.

Longer-term, CZR's value appears to be solely tied to the value of the interactive division; but it seems highly unlikely that the asset justifies Caesars' current market capitalization of nearly $1 billion. Caesars has been mum about the division's performance; CEO Loveman noted on the Q3 call that the company was still not interested in breaking out Interactive's performance.

But it seems highly unlikely that the interactive division justifies the company's nearly $1 billion market capitalization. The World Series of Poker brand does have some value, given its television contract with ESPN, currently extended through 2017. Terms were not disclosed, but an interesting comparison would be the National Hockey League. The NHL signed a $200 million per year contract with NBC in 2011. Ratings for the early rounds of the spring 2012 playoffs were for the most part similar to the WSOP's 664,000 viewers for the final table of its Main Event. But NBC also broadcast 100 regular season games, while the conference and Stanley Cup finals saw audiences in excess of one million. As such, the WSOP deal with ESPN -- even given the fact that the programming is re-run year-round -- would seem likely to be cheaper than the NHL's deal with NBC, perhaps in the range of $100-$150 million. Based on a reasonable price-to-sales ratios, even accounting for some of the ancillary revenue from the WSOP (such as merchandising and circuit tournaments), it seems the WSOP asset is valued at no more than $200 million, or less than $2 per share.

And, believe it or not, the WSOP might be the most valuable asset in the division. Caesars may have paid as much as $200 million for Playtika, but given that social gaming giant Zynga currently has an enterprise value in the same range, Playtika's present value is likely well below what Caesars paid. According to AppData, Zynga's Hold 'Em Poker app has 6.6 million daily active users and 32.8 monthly active users. (Both numbers trail Zynga's more popular Farmville game.) Meanwhile, Playtika's Slotomania and the Caesars Casino app combined have just 2.5M daily and 8.2M monthly active users, figures that dramatically trail those of a single Zynga product. As such, it seems highly unlikely that Playtika -- a company with only two products -- has a valuation anywhere near that of Zynga. Despite the price tag, Playtika should be valued at no more than $50 million given current trends.

In short, Caesars' online gambling opportunity has to be worth somewhere in the range of $700 million to justify CZR's current price. It seems unlikely. While CZR bulls tout the value of the WSOP brand in a potential U.S. market, a live WSOP poker site is in fact already live in the UK, in a partnership with 888 Holdings (EIHDF.PK). The WSOP site is in fact just a "skin" for 888's larger player pool, meaning that players are playing on the 888 network, but through the WSOP interface.

Very interesting stuff there.

I just stayed at Caesar's from December 30th to January 3rd.

We had a beautiful view of the strip fireworks show on New Years, and Benjamin enjoyed staying up for New Years midnight for the first time (and seeing fireworks for the first time).

However, the organizational and operational fail at that place was staggering. Among other things, it took me over an hour to check out -- not because of any lines (there weren't any in the Seven Star area), but because of sheer incompetence in correcting simple errors on my bill.

Over the four days, there was one laughable situation after another. They just are really bad with operations over there (and at all Caesar's properties), and this seems to be extending to the business end of the company, as well.

They made an incredibly astute move in 2004 by acquiring the WSOP for nearly nothing, but they've bungled nearly every other major decision since then.

Even the Seven Star program -- which is by far the best rewards program in the industry -- often runs its members ragged with a combination of incompetence and poor decision-making.

You would think that a company of this size would hire a consulting firm (or even a few independent consultants) to examine their operational bungling and suggest some easy, quick-fix changes, but that's just not how they work. They have been bringing the fail for many years now, and the yearly follies at the WSOP are just a microcosm of what's been going on at the parent corporation for quite some time.

[Dan Druff]

I'll give you an example of the many fails I encounter there as part of the Seven Stars program.

Here is the brochure regarding the Seven Stars benefits for 2012:

http://www.caesars.com/sevenstars/eM...012/index.html

You will see on pages 7-8 a description of a "Celebration Dinner".

Basically, you get a dinner at any restaurant at any Caesar's property, up to $500 (you have to pay any overages and all tips).

I literally waited until the last minute to redeem mine. I had my Celebration Dinner on December 31, at the Strip House (steak house) at Planet Hollywood. I took my parents, my girlfriend, and Benjamin.

The meal itself was fine. However, the planning of the meal -- and paying for it -- was cringeworthy.

I called my host about 2 weeks in advance and said that I wanted to do my Celebration Dinner at Strip House on December 31. She said that she would book it for me. Then she asked, "When can you come down and see me in person?"

I asked why I had to see her in person prior to the meal.

"You need a paper comp slip for the $500," she explained. "You can't just charge it to your room. That's not how this Celebration Dinner works. Without the paper comp, you can't get the $500 off your bill."

I asked if she could just send the paper comp directly to the restaurant.

"I can," she said, "But about 80% of the time it gets lost in transit. So I just tell my players it's better to pick it up from me in person."



I agreed to this and asked for her to make a reservation for 7:30pm.

She was going to be out for a few days, but said she would call me when the reservation was confirmed.

I never got a call.

I called Strip House myself, only to find out that no reservation was ever made, and they were now completely booked for all times between 6pm and 10pm.



I explained what happened and they were able to release a blocked table to me for 7:30.

I called the host and asked about this. She said that she had sent this to some VIP Reservations person at the Seven Stars desk, and that person had dropped the ball. Whatever. At least I fixed it myself.

I picked up the paper comp slip on December 30th and we went to the restaurant on the 31st, as planned. We had our meal, everything went fine.

Then it came time to pay. I Jewishly made sure we used all of the $500 but not more than that -- the bill laughably came to $500.59!

I whipped out my $500 paper comp, and about 10 minutes later, the restaurant hostess came to me with the following news:

"I'm sorry, but this comp is shown as already having been used. You're just going to have to charge it to your room."



I explained that this comp is written in my name and specifically for this restaurant. Everyone agreed that I had never used a comp at this restaurant before, meaning that it was literally impossible for this comp to have already been used. However, they were still insisting that I charge it to my room and take it up with Caesar's later.

This would have been a HUGE pain in the ass, as my host repeatedly warned me to use the paper comp and NOT to charge it to my room, or otherwise it would be hell to reverse.

I told them at the restaurant that, since they acknowledged that the comp was never used (and was real), and that this was likely some sort of computer error, they should give me the benefit of the doubt and settle it with Caesar's the next day. I also told them I was willing to wait a few minutes for them to call and settle this over the phone. I sat there for about 15-20 minutes, at which point I told them that I was about to tip the waiter and leave, and they could figure out on their own how to handle this. They kept asking me just to charge it to my room, but I refused, knowing the massive headache it would be for me to get it undone. The manager then ran out and promised me "30 more seconds", and indeed he came back out a few minutes later and told me they managed to settle it with Caesar's.

What a fucking mess.

And this was all for the very simple process of having a $500 dinner -- a standard benefit for every Seven Stars member.

This is one of many fail stories I can tell you from the Seven Stars program.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great program, and its benefits far outshine any other players' club out there, but the incompetence and fail involved is off the charts.

[badguy23]

Druff I was trying to rip off Pizza joints on another radio station on New Years Eve and u r bitching about getting a 500 free meal?? WTF am I missing here?? BTW Bovada is on the clock my friend. Glad u made it to the fireworks with your wife and kid.

[Dan Druff]

Druff I was trying to rip off Pizza joints on another radio station on New Years Eve and u r bitching about getting a 500 free meal?? WTF am I missing here?? BTW Bovada is on the clock my friend. Glad u made it to the fireworks with your wife and kid.

Not complaining about the free meal, but rather all of the fail that came before and after it.

This isn't like Caesar's was doing me a favor. This is a standard yearly benefit of their Seven Stars program.