As I am apparently still post restricted I now have to stoop this low to post folks-I am editing and deleting past posts to communicate here.
That is really weird, and not at all user friendly druff.
Anyway, I decided after some reading online this was a raw deal on multiple fronts, these are the things which really stood out to me after having reviewed laws pertaining to receiving of stolen property- The guy seemed to have a large and wide ranging list of things to sell, all of which sounded appealing, which is uncommon. Not many people have large expensive things to sell such as harley parts (easy to price, easy to find buyer, and black market buyers would be common) semi-high end paintings (ditto) and...of all things, ivory (I damn near dropped my phone when he said that) and really, if you think about it, the cops have this set up completely idiotproof to get their convictions if any arrests are made as NO jury in the country is going to sit there and listen to me or anyone ramble on about how some guy i barely knew wanting me to sell ivory didn't throw up any red flags etc.
I learned quite a bit researching various laws last night to see what I might be getting into, and I was stunned to find out a person can and will be convicted of felony receiving of stolen property if two things happen-#1 Actor receives the property and knows or suspects (and by suspects, I mean the slightest tinge of doubt possible would be enough to say guilty from a jury here, and you have to figure the jurors have egos too, I can imagine the prosecutor grilling them making them look like idiots if they say no, it's possible he didn't suspect anything etc) that the property is stolen and #2 Actor must then NOT attempt to return the items to their rightful owner within a 'reasonable' amount of time. Meaning say I showed up at dudes house and chatted real quick, took pictures of items didn't say a word and ran out the door, no crime has been committed until I arrange a buyer and arrangements are made which involve me taking possession of the item and not intending on returning the item to it's legal owner but, instead, intending on delivering the item to another person. Once the item is in my hand I would now have a "reasonable" amount of time to either find the legal owner and make every possible attempt to mate him/her with stolen goods or I'm screwed.
The catch all here is this- by that point I would be fucked because let's say, for example, once the painting gets into my hand, I decide to ask the guy if he bought the painting originally and he shrugs and says "sure". Any competent prosecutor is going to know a typical juror is going to be saying to themselves "hey wait a minute, why did he ask about where the painting came from now? If he was suspicious enough to ask by this point, it stands to reason he had been suspicious the entire time, or at least prior to taking possession" and that's where the whole "reasonable amount of time" line is literally bullshit.
The funny part is I can definitely see the convo I had with the guy on the phone being more than enough evidence for a prosecutor to make a solid case that I "should have known" the items Might have been hot, and thus from there it's not unreasonable to assume the officer I would have been dealing with would do nothing, just sit around while I make the ads and research prices and he might even agree up front to handle shipping, just in case a somewhat clever thief tries to cover his own ass by never handling the merchandise himself, but come the day of the show you can bet your life Mr. Coppertop will suddenly have a bad back or some kind of plausible emergency, and thus the crook would have to handle the product (cop might even leave a door unlocked or something who knows)
I was essentially doing this research because I was going to base my decision to go and talk to the guy or not on two very important things- 1- Would I ever be able to know, for sure, that the stuff this guy has is NOT stolen? (I refuse to dabble in stolen merchandise on any level as doing so funds crime and hurts the society I live in and draw from) and 2- Could I be absolutely SURE this was not a sting of some kind?
Well the 1st question was pretty easy to answer, this guy would absolutely need some legit matching and feasible stories as to where his things came from and also how he could afford them, and I am not stupid. I'd be asking for receipts or some kind of proof of payment for a large percentage of items, and he'd better not have been sketchy about anything i asked at any point or no dice.
The 2nd question was the real deal breaker because if there is any chance of this being a sting, it would very LIKELY be one. I determined based on the conversation I had with the guy that this is definitely a sting trying to catch crooks and hopefully lead LE to some fencing operations. I say that because during one single 10 minute conversation the guy says he is inept with computers (going so far as to misspell his post very awkwardly, people who cannot spell do not misspell like that) he also managed to say kind of on the dl "yeah I am hoping to find someone who can connect me with buyers for this stuff" he never blinked an eyelash when I told him my fee was as high as %35 (closer to %30 is typical, sometimes mid 20's) and he just had the right kind of stuff a guy wanting a fast buck with no regard to where stuff came from would be looking for- small parts that are worth a very decent amount which can be priced and sold with verrrrrry little effort, which just never happens) and of course he also says, again under his breath "and if this works out I can get more stuff, and i have friends who can get stuff" and the tone of his voice changed to sounding very submissive and passive, very willing if you know what I mean.
The debate in my mind after last night was never whether or not I was going to head over (NOT happening) but actually whether or not the guy was a crook and I should alert SJPD (I planned on it as of this morning, at least to notify them of what I had learned) -or- was this guy an actual undercover cop?
He is clearly a cop because in the first 10 minutes on the phone with a total stranger he mentioned (more than once) that he had ivory he wanted me to sell along with the other stuff. NO criminal in their right mind would ever be that trusting, and thus he seemed to have NO fear I might be LE at any point, never questioned my legitimacy on any level, and a criminal stealing fairly high end things like these is really never going to commit the theft without a fence to take it all to, and he is absolutely positively not going to tell a stranger where his stolen ivory is being kept. Good lord.
Methinks the ivory was thrown in to weed out potential non-baddies like me, had to be.
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Originally Posted by Baron Von Strucker
