Palms is banning all poker players from blackjack games

[Dan Druff]

I heard Grinder got banned from their blackjack games for being a poker player.

I thought this was just the result of an idiot pit boss assuming that, because Grinder was a good poker player, he had to be an advantage blackjack player, too.

Banning any Mizrachi from any pit game is a very



But it looks like they really are banning all poker players.

Lisa Parsons, a relatively small-time poker pro, was banned from the Palms blackjack game tonight simply for being a poker player.

Unbelievable.

Someone needs to have a talk with the management of the Palms and make them realize that they WANT most poker players in their blackjack game, and that they just need to boot the math nerds. Everyone else would be hugely profitable for them.

Morons.

[SixToedPete]

That may be true but I heard Adrienne Maloof (one of the Real insufferable Wives of Beverly Hills) sent a private jet so Stevie Wonder could play high stakes blackjack at the Palms.

[Rollo Tomasi]

[SetofKs]

Obviously a terrible decision. Poker players are the biggest breed of degenerates imaginable. Let em ban poker players tho. More money stays in the poker economy. I wish all casinos would do this.

[Windsor Lockwood]

Do not understand this decision.

[BeerAndPoker]

Seriously that might be the most fucking retarded thing I've ever heard.

Casinos should want to spread poker in hopes those players that win shoot it off in pit games like most will do because of their gambling habits and the edge the casino has.

Palms must have a bunch of idiots in charge to think because someone wins at poker they will win at blackjack / pit games when they should be opening those players to the table and shaking their hand as they sit down unless they give them a reason over time not to (a bj card counter for example).

[SetofKs]

Seriously that might be the most fucking retarded thing I've ever heard.

Casinos should want to spread poker in hopes those players that win shoot it off in pit games like most will do because of their gambling habits and the edge the casino has.

Palms must have a bunch of idiots in charge to think because someone wins at poker they will win at blackjack / pit games when they should be opening those players to the table and shaking their hand as they sit down unless they give them a reason over time not to (a bj card counter for example).

Yah the only reason steve wynn decided to put a poker room in the bellagio is because bobby baldwin showed him how much high stakes poker pros shoot off in the pits.

[BigDMcCobb]

I think it's easy to dismiss this as stupid, however there has to be some reason for it. Maybe a bunch of Math geeks have gotten together since the poker bubble has burst and gotten into the stable job of card counting, and hit the casino's for big numbers.

So, if I understand this correctly, they are banning poker players from blackjack only, not all pit games. So, a true degenerate gambler if he can't play BJ will play craps or baccarat or some other table game that's in the house's favor. The sharps who are card counting will just stay out of the pits all together. Sure, there might be a couple poker players who are black jack whales and will only play black jack in the pits. But I doubt most degenerates who shoot off huge numbers in the pits fit that profile.


It might seem dumb and unfair, but I doubt it kills the action of any of the true degens, which is who they care about, and it filters out a bunch of +Ev bj players effortlessly.

[Dan Druff]

I think it's easy to dismiss this as stupid, however there has to be some reason for it. Maybe a bunch of Math geeks have gotten together since the poker bubble has burst and gotten into the stable job of card counting, and hit the casino's for big numbers.

So, if I understand this correctly, they are banning poker players from blackjack only, not all pit games. So, a true degenerate gambler if he can't play BJ will play craps or baccarat or some other table game that's in the house's favor. The sharps who are card counting will just stay out of the pits all together. Sure, there might be a couple poker players who are black jack whales and will only play black jack in the pits. But I doubt most degenerates who shoot off huge numbers in the pits fit that profile.


It might seem dumb and unfair, but I doubt it kills the action of any of the true degens, which is who they care about, and it filters out a bunch of +Ev bj players effortlessly.

No, that's not how it works.

When a poker degen wants to shoot off, he doesn't want to be restricted.

If Palms won't take his blackjack action, he'll just walk the fuck out and go play somewhere that will.

And if they are really getting tortured by the few poker math nerds that can play winning blackjack, they could easily thwart that by just identifying and banning those guys. It's very easy to pick out a card counter from his play style.

I can tell you from experience that even the poker players who can count cards are not +EV players because they either don't do it correctly, or they have too many degen tendencies and don't stick to the program.

This is a ridiculous decision.

[SetofKs]

I think it's easy to dismiss this as stupid, however there has to be some reason for it. Maybe a bunch of Math geeks have gotten together since the poker bubble has burst and gotten into the stable job of card counting, and hit the casino's for big numbers.

So, if I understand this correctly, they are banning poker players from blackjack only, not all pit games. So, a true degenerate gambler if he can't play BJ will play craps or baccarat or some other table game that's in the house's favor. The sharps who are card counting will just stay out of the pits all together. Sure, there might be a couple poker players who are black jack whales and will only play black jack in the pits. But I doubt most degenerates who shoot off huge numbers in the pits fit that profile.


It might seem dumb and unfair, but I doubt it kills the action of any of the true degens, which is who they care about, and it filters out a bunch of +Ev bj players effortlessly.

Or, it will just give the true degenerate gamblers that enjoy blackjack another reason, aside from the fact that the place is dirty and a shit hole, to avoid the palms. You are right though that this decision may not be as bad as it looks.

[Rollo Tomasi]

[pievegas]

Obviously a terrible decision. Poker players are the biggest breed of degenerates imaginable. Let em ban poker players tho. More money stays in the poker economy. I wish all casinos would do this.

They call them leaks for a reason. Doh!

[Sitting Out]

I assume this is being done by facial recognition, i.e., made famous through tv appearances. Poker players don't exactly wear a sign "I play poker."

The only plausible reason might be is that high rolling poker players would tend not to spew off their BR based on their poker experience, which in turn would cause high variances that a casino doesn't wish to incur. That's a stretch though.

[Bootsy Collins]

Next they will ban Allen Kessler from even stepping foot on the property.

[PLOL]

I assume this is being done by facial recognition, i.e., made famous through tv appearances. Poker players don't exactly wear a sign "I play poker."

I'm not sure if you're leveling, or just incredibly retarded.

[ErickAA]

Druff,

Do you know, does the Palms have a particularly favorable set up for a +EV player they are particularly worried about being exploited? Like single deck with deep penetration or something like that? Either way, it is obviously LOL to blanket ban poker players, but do they have a set-up where they need to be legitimately concerned about giving away too much EV to smart players?

[Dan Druff]

Druff,

Do you know, does the Palms have a particularly favorable set up for a +EV player they are particularly worried about being exploited? Like single deck with deep penetration or something like that? Either way, it is obviously LOL to blanket ban poker players, but do they have a set-up where they need to be legitimately concerned about giving away too much EV to smart players?

Haven't been in there for awhile.

Their double deck game was beatable, but not especially great. It didn't seem to have much heat from the pit staff, which was a plus.

I ran really bad there, which kinda made me lose my enthusiasm for playing there (dumb reason, but it's the truth.) Also, as I said, there was nothing special about the conditions.

I can't stress enough that there are VERY FEW poker players who can play a +EV blackjack game. Many know the basics of card counting, but I've observed so many leaks and mistakes that it's hilarious that they actually think they're playing a positive expectation strategy.

As a rule of thumb, when you think about a poker player at blackjack, ask yourself, "Does this player seem like a Bill Chen math type?" If the answer is yes, he's probably a winning player. If the answer is no or "probably not", then it's almost 100% that he's a -EV player. The only real exception that I remember is Hollywood Dave, but that's because he was a blackjack player before he was a poker player.

[Dan Druff]

I should also point out that, in general, casinos LOVE what I refer to as "pseudo advantage players".

The guy in this article is a pseudo advantage player.

The card counter with enough leaks or tilt problems to make him -EV is a pseudo advantage player.

People with ridiculous "betting systems" (which aren't properly attached to a mathematically correct strategy) are pseudo advantage players.

Simply put, a pseudo advantage player is someone who wrongly thinks he's found an edge to turn the tables on the casino, but in reality is playing a -EV game.

Casinos love this because these players will often keep gambling until their entire bankroll is shot, convinced that the long run will make them winners.

Pseudo advantage players are often quite arrogant, and they look down on people like me who get kicked out of casinos for card counting. They're convinced that their superior cover stories and acting skills are keeping them in the game.

[Sitting Out]

I assume this is being done by facial recognition, i.e., made famous through tv appearances. Poker players don't exactly wear a sign "I play poker."

I'm not sure if you're leveling, or just incredibly retarded.

not sure why you need to be so hostile with such an offensive remark (which btw adds nothing to the subject at hand other than providing an excuse for you to project a superior than thou attitude)

[Crowe Diddly]

I'm not sure if you're leveling, or just incredibly retarded.

not sure why you need to be so hostile with such an offensive remark (which btw adds nothing to the subject at hand other than providing an excuse for you to project a superior than thou attitude)

Sooooo, we're going with incredibly retarded I guess?

:P