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Thread: DOJ: Yeah your FTP funds will be a while

  1. #1
    Gold Corrigan's Avatar
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    DOJ: Yeah your FTP funds will be a while

    I mean not really unexpected, but still disappointing:



    PPA Statement Regarding Meeting with the Department of Justice
    John A. Pappas, Executive Director, Poker Players Alliance

    “Today I met with officials from the U.S. Department of Justice (DoJ), Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section. This is the division of the DOJ that oversees the process of remission for victims of crimes. The settlement in United States v. Pokerstars, et al. designated for refunds to U.S. players over $200 million in funds forfeited on April 15, 2011 by PokerStars, relating to their FultTilt Poker accounts. I was joined by PPA counsel Marc Zwillinger and Ken Dreifach from the Washington D.C.-based law firm ZwillGen, PLLC. It was a cordial and productive meeting. We provided DOJ with information and insights on what the player community expects from the remission process, and how we believe such a process ought be administered to assure fairness.

    Our first priority was to reaffirm our earlier assertions from an August 8, 2012 letter that 100 percent of player account balances be made available to players through the remission process. We laid out compelling legal and practical arguments why full repayment was the only equitable solution. We also raised the issue of “player point” balances on FullTilt Poker and encouraged the DOJ to recognize the inherent value of these points when they consider what a player is owed. Our thoughts on these matters were well received; however, it was clear from our discussion that no decisions have been made at the DoJ regarding the manner of repayment of player balances. Nevertheless, we have provided them with a clear picture of the expectations of the player community.

    Secondly, we shared our thoughts on a streamlined process for players to apply for and receive their funds. We emphasized the need for a flexible approach to player authentication and verification. While they would not confirm so in the meeting, we are hopeful that the DoJ has sufficient means to authenticate players based on the records such as user name, passwords, security questions and email addresses.

    Our third objective was to get a sense of timing. Unfortunately, completion of a refund claims process is a long way away. The first step in this process will be the Department’s hiring of of a third-party claims administrator, after a bidding process: there is no current date certain for that selection to occur. But it was evident that even when a claims administrator is hired, forfeiture and remission procedures require that a substantial administrative process be adhered to before players begin seeing their funds. The PPA will remain vigilant in our advocacy for the players. We are also mindful of the staffing and resource limitations of the Department – and the numerous other forfeiture cases they are administering -- and we thus have offered our assistance to help them navigate the complexities of the issues and hopefully expedite the refund process.

    This is certainly not good news for those poker players still awaiting the return of their money, but it is all the news the PPA can provide at this time. Beyond that the PPA can only pledge to continue its work with the DOJ and do everything it can to help the DOJ get the process moving as soon as possible. The PPA’s legal team is already working on specific methods to help accomplish this objective.

    While there were not many answers to come from this meeting, I do believe that it was beneficial and that there is a clear record for the Department to make the right decisions with respect to the player remission process. We fully expect to keep a continued and open dialogue with the Department and we will continue to update you as more information becomes available.

  2. #2
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Agree. Really annoying, but not unexpected at all. We might be looking at a year or more from now.

    On a side note, the PPA fucking sucks balls.

    First off, I love how Pappas tries to make it look like the PPA has always been interested in pressing for a quick return of Full Tilt money.

    Our first priority was to reaffirm our earlier assertions from an August 8, 2012 letter that 100 percent of player account balances be made available to players through the remission process.
    This is bullshit. Here is a 2+2 quote from PPA Vice President Rich "The Engineer" Muny:

    Getting money back isn't even part of the PPA mission. It is something I'm glad we can help out with, but it's not something anyone ever promised you.

    If you prefer, feel free to pursue your claim independently of PPA. There's no reason not to.
    This was Muny snapping at someone who was criticizing the PPA's handling of the situation. Basically, Muny was telling the guy that the PPA is doing a favor by assisting in this process, since it wasn't "part of the PPA mission". What an arrogant POS. Think of how many people donated their hard-earned $ (and time) to this organization, and Muny is acting like the PPA is doing the community a favor by "helping out" with trying to get everyone paid back from Full Tilt.

    No, you're not doing anyone a favor, Rich. The PPA represents all poker players. This is the single biggest issue in poker at the moment. To ignore this would be a horrendous dereliction of duty, especially given that it's related to poker and the DoJ, which is supposed to be the PPA's specialty.


    Anyway, here is some more bullshit from the PPA statement:

    Our first priority was to reaffirm our earlier assertions from an August 8, 2012 letter that 100 percent of player account balances be made available to players through the remission process. We laid out compelling legal and practical arguments why full repayment was the only equitable solution.
    The above is typical PPA propaganda. They are laying the foundation for taking credit for something that was already going to happen. That's what they've done for the past 6 years.

    The sale of Full Tilt to Pokerstars -- and the dropping of civil charges against Pokerstars -- was hinged upon paying back players in entirety. That has never been in question. The partial payment scenario was only discussed when the Groupe Tapie purchase was on the table, as little was known about that potential purchase and what it would mean for US players. That is no longer the case. Pokerstars paid the DoJ $750 million which, in part, was assuring that all claims for the Full Tilt money would be paid (by the DoJ) in full.

    Watch the PPA take credit for "getting everyone paid in full" once it actually happens. Ridiculous.

    Now read this part:

    We also raised the issue of “player point” balances on FullTilt Poker and encouraged the DOJ to recognize the inherent value of these points when they consider what a player is owed. Our thoughts on these matters were well received; however, it was clear from our discussion that no decisions have been made at the DoJ regarding the manner of repayment of player balances. Nevertheless, we have provided them with a clear picture of the expectations of the player community.

    Secondly, we shared our thoughts on a streamlined process for players to apply for and receive their funds. We emphasized the need for a flexible approach to player authentication and verification. While they would not confirm so in the meeting, we are hopeful that the DoJ has sufficient means to authenticate players based on the records such as user name, passwords, security questions and email addresses.
    Another big-time PPA fail.

    Instead of getting a firm commitment from the DoJ that they would look into both the player point value and a reasonable process to apply for fund remuneration, the PPA simply aired their concerns and weakly dropped both matters.

    Look at the bolded langauge above. It's basically admitting that they spoke, the DoJ sat quietly and said nothing useful, and the PPA walked out saying, "Well, at least we let them know our position!"




    This is certainly not good news for those poker players still awaiting the return of their money, but it is all the news the PPA can provide at this time. Beyond that the PPA can only pledge to continue its work with the DOJ and do everything it can to help the DOJ get the process moving as soon as possible. The PPA’s legal team is already working on specific methods to help accomplish this objective.
    Please forgive me if I don't hold my breath for this.

    Boy the PPA sucks big time.

  3. #3
    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Todd said off the bat he wouldn't be surprised if it was a year

    TODD IS GOD

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Let's say an American has like $500k stuck on there have they lost the option to move to access the funds sooner?

    For a different scenario say the American moved already as they had a lot on Pokerstars and wanted to keep playing so now what happens with their FTP funds? Are they tied up in limbo for however long it takes and since they've moved outside of the USA what kind of complications would they have to get the money at this point?

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    Gold Corrigan's Avatar
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    They're shit out of luck even if they have moved since, and will get their $ in 12-24 months or however long this thing will take

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    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrigan View Post
    They're shit out of luck even if they have moved since, and will get their $ in 12-24 months or however long this thing will take
    Yup , if you had a U.S. account on Black Friday you are stuck with waiting for funds from DOJ now. If you move u may activate your FTP account I believe but your funds will still be with the DOJ

  7. #7
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Corrigan View Post
    They're shit out of luck even if they have moved since, and will get their $ in 12-24 months or however long this thing will take
    Yup , if you had a U.S. account on Black Friday you are stuck with waiting for funds from DOJ now. If you move u may activate your FTP account I believe but your funds will still be with the DOJ
    It could create some weird dynamics is what I'm saying. You were an American and moved outside of the country yet are filing for funds from that time now living outside of the USA so it could be cluster fuck for these people to get their money.

    For a few players this might not be the case since FTP closed like a few weeks after Black Friday when they lost their license so if someone snap moved getting their country of residence changed then what? The whole thing again like I said is a cluster fuck to go through all this accounting of funds along with all the other mess the prior FTP accounting team had left behind.
    Last edited by BeerAndPoker; 11-14-2012 at 12:18 AM.

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    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
    Yup , if you had a U.S. account on Black Friday you are stuck with waiting for funds from DOJ now. If you move u may activate your FTP account I believe but your funds will still be with the DOJ
    It could create some weird dynamics is what I'm saying. You were an American and moved outside of the country yet are filing for funds from that time now living outside of the USA so it could be cluster fuck for these people to get their money.

    For a few players this might not be the case since FTP closed like a few weeks after Black Friday when they lost their license so if someone snap moved getting their country of residence changed then what? The whole thing again like I said is a cluster fuck to go through all this accounting of funds along with all the other mess the prior FTP accounting team had left behind.
    If someone did snap move I believe they would be considered ROW and they would be sitting pretty right now

    I think (but not 100 %) it goes by the date FTP was shut down

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Funny trolling of 2+2, China.


  10. #10
    Platinum BetCheckBet's Avatar
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    Not to be a downer but I've been in a liquidation process of an online casino for the past 4 years. Beyond brutally slow... At least you guys though will get 100% I'll be lucky to get 20% of a five figure amount

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    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Every case in which a criminal has to pay back victims (or where money is set aside for a certain group of people, like after Katrina) involves a claims administrator and is painfully slow.

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