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Thread: PPA says that Obama victory, Republican House hold, Dem Senate hold = great scenario for online poker legalization -- I disagree

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    PPA says that Obama victory, Republican House hold, Dem Senate hold = great scenario for online poker legalization -- I disagree

    http://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/1...oker-13744.htm

    I don't listen to much of what the PPA says. They have been an incredibly ineffective (and surprisingly arrogant) organization, especially given their millions of dollars in funding and six years to accomplish something.

    In reality, Obama winning the election doesn't matter much regarding online poker's legality. The PPA quickly forgets that the Obama White House responded to a 2012 petition regarding legalizing online poker with a statement that they are against federally legalized online poker. I believe Romney would have been a little more against it than Obama, but not by much. In reality, I believe that any bill that attempts to legalize online poker by itself will fail, as all of them have thus far.

    Our best hope at this point is to see a UIGEA-like attachment to another sure-to-pass bill, which would then still pass and legalize online poker. It's a lot easier said than done, but that's our best shot, and this could have been accomplished just as easily with Romney in office as it would Obama. I don't believe either candidate has a passionate feeling against online poker (to where they would veto an important bill with an online poker attachment).

    An alternative way to legalization is to have a few of the state online poker rooms succeed and run without problems/scandals, thus giving the federal government an example of successful implementation. But that's assuming a lot. I could easily see these state rooms being run by incompetent and inexperienced fools, and some more scandals hitting -- whether from cheating or just ineptitude. Again, I don't think it matters who is in office for this to occur.

    "I really think the status quo is the best-case scenario for something getting done in the lame duck," Pappas said. "Any time the vote gets rocked too much, meaning the House or Senate switches parties or the White House changes hands, the chances of compromise or deal making in the lame duck is much more difficult since the parties newly in control have no incentive to cut deals. They would rather wait until they have members of their caucus in place and deal with things in the new year."
    The PPA's argument that the current lame-duck Congress can pass an online poker bill is rather strange. There is barely any time to get this done (slightly more than two months, and very little tends to get done in December). I also don't see why they would be itching to pass an online poker bill, when essentially the same makeup of Congress didn't get anything done with this in the past 4 years. What "incentive" would there be for the existing Congress to rush an online poker bill through? Pappas is taking a generality about Congress changing hands and lame-duck deal-making, and applying it to online poker, where it is unlikely to matter.

    Keep in mind that the PPA always wants to paint a rosy picture that their efforts are soon going to mean something, so they get more funding.

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    The PPA would declare an invasion of ectoplasmic space gladiators from a breach in the fabric of the universe to be beneficial for online poker legislation.

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    this is flying stupid...
    Me defeating Druff 100 BB heads up - http://youtu.be/LmxTH0rZaLk?t=2h12m35s

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    Not sure why this is even a discussion. It took Prohibition 10 years to get overturned. "Don't ask don't tell"? 15 years.

    It takes a groundswell of support over many years, and a shitload of lobbyist money to get legislation reversed. The PPA? Less than .01% of the US population as ever heard of them.

    I would love to hop on Party Poker tonight but its not happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    The PPA would declare an invasion of ectoplasmic space gladiators from a breach in the fabric of the universe to be beneficial for online poker legislation.
    The biggest LOL about the PPA is when they try to take credit for things they didn't actually do.

    Take the banks and the UIGEA regulations, for example.

    When the UIGEA passed, the banks were all panicky, because the new regulations were burdensome, and many were also ambiguous, thus leading them possibly into legal trouble regardless of how hard they tried to follow the law.

    Obviously the banks loudly objected and demanded both clarification of the law and time to get everything in place to implement it.

    This was judged as reasonable, and the banks were granted extra time to get their houses in order.

    The PPA took credit for this delay. They said that the delay was "their idea" and that they were "working with the banks", as if major corporations like Wells Fargo, Bank of America, and Citigroup needed help (or ideas) from a minor organization like the PPA.

    The PPA cannot point to anything they specifically did that the banks wouldn't have done on their own, but they are still proudly taking credit for this "victory" (which was only a delay, not a real victory).



    This is just one of many examples where the PPA does shit like this.

    They even take credit for legitimizing online poker in the public's eyes. They think that putting John Pappas or Greg Raymer on Fox News to say, "Poker isn't gambling" was worth the millions of dollars spent on the organization.

    Because, you know, there aren't any intelligent, well-spoken poker players who would go on national TV and say this without a highly-funded organization behind them.

    The PPA doesn't want to admit that they were Full Tilt and Pokerstars' bitch from 2006-2011, and that's a large reason why little got accomplished. The other reason is that they just suck, and are set in their ways like a 90-year-old man with partial senility.

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    The PPA will have zero influence on making online poker legal. It will be up to Steve Wynn and other casino magnates to make that happen.

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    You'll feel differently after the bill to legalize online poker is passed.

    If it comes to pass it will be because of Senator Harry Reid and some Las Vegas casinos not because of the PPA.

    It takes years to get laws like the UIGEA overturned. The only thing Republicans due now is filibuster the shit on everything.

    The Democrats will have to wait and find some legislation that the Republicans want like tax cuts for the wealthy and
    insert the poker bill in that.




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    It's more the message of last night's election that is positive. I think Reid + Heller hopefully being able to sway a few on the other side + Obama not vetoing a bill is slightly better than the alternative in the sausage-making part of getting something done, but the election in general has to make the smarter conservatives start to rethink being the lapdogs of southern religious fundamentalists at this point.

    That is no longer a winning team. While high minority turnout is probably good for something like passing legalized marijuana, it's not good for passing gay marriage as blacks are possibly the most homophobic of all groups, Hispanics are highly Catholic, yet we still had stand alone bills legalizing gay marriage pass. The country is changing, and the old social conservative base is dying off, literally, every day. Fox has changed their talking points from "we are a Conservative country," to "we are a center-right country," but I'm not sure that is even true at this point.

    When you lose a totally winnable election to a black man in a horrible economy it's time to rethink your battles, and a lot of why they lost last night was social issues. You had almost every exit poll in swing states saying Romney would handle the economy better by like 50-47 margins, yet they lost. That's hard to do, almost impossible in a bad economy. Yet they lost, convincingly. It's hard to disprove the adage, "it's the economy, stupid," yet they found a way to do it.

    If there is a take-away from last night it's that doing the bidding of religious conservatives is a recipe for disaster going forward. They lost on abortion and a bunch of social issues. They lost every demographic except middle-aged to old white men. They may have won old white women too, but who cares, half will be dead in 4 years "Get out of people bedrooms, bodies, and personal life" was the message from last night. "We think you possibly may be better on the economy, but it isn't worth putting up with all the bullshit."

    The country will just get more secular, it isn't going the other way. Poker doesn't have anywhere near the movement of gay marriage or pro-legalization of weed, but it also isn't hated with nearly the venom those things are hated with by the religious conservatives. And if you're going to pick your battles going forward, a guy from a slightly conservative area who is afraid to go home and be pro-choice might be able to go home and support poker and be electable. They aren't that far off, they don't need the dude from rural Mississippi or Louisiana to agree to it. They need the fiscal conservative guy from Colorado or Virgina to agree with it, and after last night, I think that is more likely than before. They aren't going to wholesale change overnight on social issues, they still need to pay lip service to the religious conservatives, but poker is way more palatable to your average church goer than endorsing same sex marriage. Last night set a tone that the country is now different more than any election before it. If they regroup and come to the conclusion they simply had the wrong candidate and throw another clown in 4 years with the same policies at an electorate that is growing 2% more minority every election and think they have a chance, then they are simply stupid beyond words. Whoever runs R in '16 will be facing an electorate that is 30+% minority. Bush in '04 faced 23%, won 40+% of the Hispanic vote, and won by 2.5%. Obama will win by that last night. Republicans have to quit alienating people over Focus on the Family nonsense if they ever want a shot again.

    Statements like these by whack-jobs trying to appease fundamentalists have cost the Republicans dearly.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    http://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/1...oker-13744.htm

    I don't listen to much of what the PPA says. They have been an incredibly ineffective (and surprisingly arrogant) organization, especially given their millions of dollars in funding and six years to accomplish something.

    In reality, Obama winning the election doesn't matter much regarding online poker's legality. The PPA quickly forgets that the Obama White House responded to a 2012 petition regarding legalizing online poker with a statement that they are against federally legalized online poker. I believe Romney would have been a little more against it than Obama, but not by much. In reality, I believe that any bill that attempts to legalize online poker by itself will fail, as all of them have thus far.

    Our best hope at this point is to see a UIGEA-like attachment to another sure-to-pass bill, which would then still pass and legalize online poker. It's a lot easier said than done, but that's our best shot, and this could have been accomplished just as easily with Romney in office as it would Obama. I don't believe either candidate has a passionate feeling against online poker (to where they would veto an important bill with an online poker attachment).

    An alternative way to legalization is to have a few of the state online poker rooms succeed and run without problems/scandals, thus giving the federal government an example of successful implementation. But that's assuming a lot. I could easily see these state rooms being run by incompetent and inexperienced fools, and some more scandals hitting -- whether from cheating or just ineptitude. Again, I don't think it matters who is in office for this to occur.

    "I really think the status quo is the best-case scenario for something getting done in the lame duck," Pappas said. "Any time the vote gets rocked too much, meaning the House or Senate switches parties or the White House changes hands, the chances of compromise or deal making in the lame duck is much more difficult since the parties newly in control have no incentive to cut deals. They would rather wait until they have members of their caucus in place and deal with things in the new year."
    The PPA's argument that the current lame-duck Congress can pass an online poker bill is rather strange. There is barely any time to get this done (slightly more than two months, and very little tends to get done in December). I also don't see why they would be itching to pass an online poker bill, when essentially the same makeup of Congress didn't get anything done with this in the past 4 years. What "incentive" would there be for the existing Congress to rush an online poker bill through? Pappas is taking a generality about Congress changing hands and lame-duck deal-making, and applying it to online poker, where it is unlikely to matter.

    Keep in mind that the PPA always wants to paint a rosy picture that their efforts are soon going to mean something, so they get more funding.
    If Reid and Obama think legalizing poker will help fill their coffers to spend more money they dont have then they will. Obama knows he can vilify the 1% all he wants, but you can only get soo much money out of them even with ridiculous Socialist tax rates. The fact is anything that brings money into the government, he's going to have to consider unless he just doesnt give a shit about bankrupting America. (which I dont discount one bit)

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    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    It's more the message of last night's election that is positive. I think Reid + Heller hopefully being able to sway a few on the other side + Obama not vetoing a bill is slightly better than the alternative in the sausage-making part of getting something done, but the election in general has to make the smarter conservatives start to rethink being the lapdogs of southern religious fundamentalists at this point.

    That is no longer a winning team. While high minority turnout is probably good for something like passing legalized marijuana, it's not good for passing gay marriage as blacks are possibly the most homophobic of all groups, Hispanics are highly Catholic, yet we still had stand alone bills legalizing gay marriage pass. The country is changing, and the old social conservative base is dying off, literally, every day. Fox has changed their talking points from "we are a Conservative country," to "we are a center-right country," but I'm not sure that is even true at this point.

    When you lose a totally winnable election to a black man in a horrible economy it's time to rethink your battles, and a lot of why they lost last night was social issues. You had almost every exit poll in swing states saying Romney would handle the economy better by like 50-47 margins, yet they lost. That's hard to do, almost impossible in a bad economy. Yet they lost, convincingly. It's hard to disprove the adage, "it's the economy, stupid," yet they found a way to do it.

    If there is a take-away from last night it's that doing the bidding of religious conservatives is a recipe for disaster going forward. They lost on abortion and a bunch of social issues. They lost every demographic except middle-aged to old white men. They may have won old white women too, but who cares, half will be dead in 4 years "Get out of people bedrooms, bodies, and personal life" was the message from last night. "We think you possibly may be better on the economy, but it isn't worth putting up with all the bullshit."

    The country will just get more secular, it isn't going the other way. Poker doesn't have anywhere near the movement of gay marriage or pro-legalization of weed, but it also isn't hated with nearly the venom those things are hated with by the religious conservatives. And if you're going to pick your battles going forward, a guy from a slightly conservative area who is afraid to go home and be pro-choice might be able to go home and support poker and be electable. They aren't that far off, they don't need the dude from rural Mississippi or Louisiana to agree to it. They need the fiscal conservative guy from Colorado or Virgina to agree with it, and after last night, I think that is more likely than before. They aren't going to wholesale change overnight on social issues, they still need to pay lip service to the religious conservatives, but poker is way more palatable to your average church goer than endorsing same sex marriage. Last night set a tone that the country is now different more than any election before it. If they regroup and come to the conclusion they simply had the wrong candidate and throw another clown in 4 years with the same policies at an electorate that is growing 2% more minority every election and think they have a chance, then they are simply stupid beyond words. Whoever runs R in '16 will be facing an electorate that is 30+% minority. Bush in '04 faced 23%, won 40+% of the Hispanic vote, and won by 2.5%. Obama will win by that last night. Republicans have to quit alienating people over Focus on the Family nonsense if they ever want a shot again.

    Statements like these by whack-jobs trying to appease fundamentalists have cost the Republicans dearly.


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    Well said. it's amazing how slow politicos realize the changing of views for your average voter. ANY republican candidate could have won by simply staying out of the social issues, promising to fix the economy, and having par-for-the-course repub. foreign policy. Instead they had about 7 idiots trying to run for president.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post

    Well said. it's amazing how slow politicos realize the changing of views for your average voter. ANY republican candidate could have won by simply staying out of the social issues, promising to fix the economy, and having par-for-the-course repub. foreign policy. Instead they had about 7 idiots trying to run for president.
    Republican party was declared irrelevant yesterday and needs to be replaced with a socially liberal, yet fiscally conservative alternative. Even running a liberal one-worlder like Romney, he couldn't get past all the theocratic bullshit. Until we can get around to getting people to support the Libertarians and Green party people en-masse, there will, for the foreseeable future, be nothing but one party politics.

    Oh, I heard the Mohegan Sun Casino is offering a free online poker client: http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/mohega...e-poker-22674/
    Last edited by 4Dragons; 11-07-2012 at 03:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    It's more the message of last night's election that is positive. I think Reid + Heller hopefully being able to sway a few on the other side + Obama not vetoing a bill is slightly better than the alternative in the sausage-making part of getting something done, but the election in general has to make the smarter conservatives start to rethink being the lapdogs of southern religious fundamentalists at this point.

    That is no longer a winning team. While high minority turnout is probably good for something like passing legalized marijuana, it's not good for passing gay marriage as blacks are possibly the most homophobic of all groups, Hispanics are highly Catholic, yet we still had stand alone bills legalizing gay marriage pass. The country is changing, and the old social conservative base is dying off, literally, every day. Fox has changed their talking points from "we are a Conservative country," to "we are a center-right country," but I'm not sure that is even true at this point.

    When you lose a totally winnable election to a black man in a horrible economy it's time to rethink your battles, and a lot of why they lost last night was social issues. You had almost every exit poll in swing states saying Romney would handle the economy better by like 50-47 margins, yet they lost. That's hard to do, almost impossible in a bad economy. Yet they lost, convincingly. It's hard to disprove the adage, "it's the economy, stupid," yet they found a way to do it.

    If there is a take-away from last night it's that doing the bidding of religious conservatives is a recipe for disaster going forward. They lost on abortion and a bunch of social issues. They lost every demographic except middle-aged to old white men. They may have won old white women too, but who cares, half will be dead in 4 years "Get out of people bedrooms, bodies, and personal life" was the message from last night. "We think you possibly may be better on the economy, but it isn't worth putting up with all the bullshit."

    The country will just get more secular, it isn't going the other way. Poker doesn't have anywhere near the movement of gay marriage or pro-legalization of weed, but it also isn't hated with nearly the venom those things are hated with by the religious conservatives. And if you're going to pick your battles going forward, a guy from a slightly conservative area who is afraid to go home and be pro-choice might be able to go home and support poker and be electable. They aren't that far off, they don't need the dude from rural Mississippi or Louisiana to agree to it. They need the fiscal conservative guy from Colorado or Virgina to agree with it, and after last night, I think that is more likely than before. They aren't going to wholesale change overnight on social issues, they still need to pay lip service to the religious conservatives, but poker is way more palatable to your average church goer than endorsing same sex marriage. Last night set a tone that the country is now different more than any election before it. If they regroup and come to the conclusion they simply had the wrong candidate and throw another clown in 4 years with the same policies at an electorate that is growing 2% more minority every election and think they have a chance, then they are simply stupid beyond words. Whoever runs R in '16 will be facing an electorate that is 30+% minority. Bush in '04 faced 23%, won 40+% of the Hispanic vote, and won by 2.5%. Obama will win by that last night. Republicans have to quit alienating people over Focus on the Family nonsense if they ever want a shot again.

    Statements like these by whack-jobs trying to appease fundamentalists have cost the Republicans dearly.


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Views: 466
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    Well said. it's amazing how slow politicos realize the changing of views for your average voter. ANY republican candidate could have won by simply staying out of the social issues, promising to fix the economy, and having par-for-the-course repub. foreign policy. Instead they had about 7 idiots trying to run for president.

    The worst part for Romney is he didn't even want to be dragged into it. I think in his heart he really doesn't give a fuck, but the Republican primary forces you to act like a loon on those issues, which in turn makes you unelectable. It's a bad spot. I was shocked to see Asians went 3-1 for Obama. Educated, family oriented, yet they broke that hard for Obama even though their personal values probably align more with Romney. I don't know if the GOP can shake that brand of being the Old White Man party who wants to be in your personal business.

    I don't even disagree with Druff about the election and poker on a micro level. Companies will make decisions, and the stars need to align. On a macro level though, when those companies want to make a move, you need the politicians and the right temperature in the country. And while money is 1-B, getting re-elected is 1-A as far as politicians. The money does no good if you take a position that will doom you. On a macro level, to use an analogy from It's a Wonderful life, social conservatives are looking to keep Bedford Falls, but the country is turning into Pottersville in many ways, and it's a lot easier to get gambling passed in Pottersville.

    Watching a brilliant guy like Rove try to find numbers that simply weren't there was amazing last night. To see a guy that smart literally realizing that it's a different country right before his eyes should be a wake-up call. He was truly mind-fucked, and I kept thinking of that Marlo line from The Wire where he says," you want it to be one way, but it's the other way."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post


    Well said. it's amazing how slow politicos realize the changing of views for your average voter. ANY republican candidate could have won by simply staying out of the social issues, promising to fix the economy, and having par-for-the-course repub. foreign policy. Instead they had about 7 idiots trying to run for president.

    The worst part for Romney is he didn't even want to be dragged into it. I think in his heart he really doesn't give a fuck, but the Republican primary forces you to act like a loon on those issues, which in turn makes you unelectable. It's a bad spot. I was shocked to see Asians went 3-1 for Obama. Educated, family oriented, yet they broke that hard for Obama even though their personal values probably align more with Romney. I don't know if the GOP can shake that brand of being the Old White Man party who wants to be in your personal business.

    I don't even disagree with Druff about the election and poker on a micro level. Companies will make decisions, and the stars need to align. On a macro level though, when those companies want to make a move, you need the politicians and the right temperature in the country. And while money is 1-B, getting re-elected is 1-A as far as politicians. The money does no good if you take a position that will doom you. On a macro level, to use an analogy from It's a Wonderful life, social conservatives are looking to keep Bedford Falls, but the country is turning into Pottersville in many ways, and it's a lot easier to get gambling passed in Pottersville.

    Watching a brilliant guy like Rove try to find numbers that simply weren't there was amazing last night. To see a guy that smart literally realizing that it's a different country right before his eyes should be a wake-up call. He was truly mind-fucked, and I kept thinking of that Marlo line from The Wire where he says," you want it to be one way, but it's the other way."
    People make too much of this election. People are talking like its been 100 years since a Republican won. You have to go way back when to 2004. The House is still solidly Republican and Obama is generally lazy, so nothing is really going to change in 4 years.

    Obama will go down as a generally ineffective President. The funny thing is the people that voted for Obama will be worse off in 2016. When I am at Mortons Saturday night there will be a couple hundred people in the place. Guess how many will be Obama voters? Less than 10%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieBensonFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post


    The worst part for Romney is he didn't even want to be dragged into it. I think in his heart he really doesn't give a fuck, but the Republican primary forces you to act like a loon on those issues, which in turn makes you unelectable. It's a bad spot. I was shocked to see Asians went 3-1 for Obama. Educated, family oriented, yet they broke that hard for Obama even though their personal values probably align more with Romney. I don't know if the GOP can shake that brand of being the Old White Man party who wants to be in your personal business.

    I don't even disagree with Druff about the election and poker on a micro level. Companies will make decisions, and the stars need to align. On a macro level though, when those companies want to make a move, you need the politicians and the right temperature in the country. And while money is 1-B, getting re-elected is 1-A as far as politicians. The money does no good if you take a position that will doom you. On a macro level, to use an analogy from It's a Wonderful life, social conservatives are looking to keep Bedford Falls, but the country is turning into Pottersville in many ways, and it's a lot easier to get gambling passed in Pottersville.

    Watching a brilliant guy like Rove try to find numbers that simply weren't there was amazing last night. To see a guy that smart literally realizing that it's a different country right before his eyes should be a wake-up call. He was truly mind-fucked, and I kept thinking of that Marlo line from The Wire where he says," you want it to be one way, but it's the other way."
    People make too much of this election. People are talking like its been 100 years since a Republican won. You have to go way back when to 2004. The House is still solidly Republican and Obama is generally lazy, so nothing is really going to change in 4 years.

    Obama will go down as a generally ineffective President. The funny thing is the people that voted for Obama will be worse off in 2016. When I am at Mortons Saturday night there will be a couple hundred people in the place. Guess how many will be Obama voters? Less than 10%.
    I used to love Morton's in the '90s, but it went downhill.

    This is true for every location.

    I'm not saying Morton's is bad, but it used to be far and away the best steakhouse I had ever been to, and now there are so many that are superior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieBensonFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post


    The worst part for Romney is he didn't even want to be dragged into it. I think in his heart he really doesn't give a fuck, but the Republican primary forces you to act like a loon on those issues, which in turn makes you unelectable. It's a bad spot. I was shocked to see Asians went 3-1 for Obama. Educated, family oriented, yet they broke that hard for Obama even though their personal values probably align more with Romney. I don't know if the GOP can shake that brand of being the Old White Man party who wants to be in your personal business.

    I don't even disagree with Druff about the election and poker on a micro level. Companies will make decisions, and the stars need to align. On a macro level though, when those companies want to make a move, you need the politicians and the right temperature in the country. And while money is 1-B, getting re-elected is 1-A as far as politicians. The money does no good if you take a position that will doom you. On a macro level, to use an analogy from It's a Wonderful life, social conservatives are looking to keep Bedford Falls, but the country is turning into Pottersville in many ways, and it's a lot easier to get gambling passed in Pottersville.

    Watching a brilliant guy like Rove try to find numbers that simply weren't there was amazing last night. To see a guy that smart literally realizing that it's a different country right before his eyes should be a wake-up call. He was truly mind-fucked, and I kept thinking of that Marlo line from The Wire where he says," you want it to be one way, but it's the other way."
    People make too much of this election. People are talking like its been 100 years since a Republican won. You have to go way back when to 2004. The House is still solidly Republican and Obama is generally lazy, so nothing is really going to change in 4 years.

    Obama will go down as a generally ineffective President. The funny thing is the people that voted for Obama will be worse off in 2016. When I am at Mortons Saturday night there will be a couple hundred people in the place. Guess how many will be Obama voters? Less than 10%.
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