Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 50

Thread: I was a pawn in the sick American Airlines labor dispute game

  1. #1
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10151
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,783
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    68011186

    I was a pawn in the sick American Airlines labor dispute game

    You may not have heard about it, but American Airlines is involved in a major labor dispute with its pilots.

    http://articles.boston.com/2012-09-2...tbound-flights

    Rather than walking out, the pilots have resorted to a new tactic to hurt their employer -- one that is legal but inconveniences hundreds of thousands of fliers. They are simply "over-diligent" with reporting maintenance issues. That is, if they see the slightest sign of something that could possibly be wrong, they not only report it, but they keep pressing for resolution to the problem (which often can't be found), resulting in a flight's cancellation or severe delay.

    Over 1,000 flights have been delayed in the past month in this fashion.

    “For the past 14 days, we have seen unprecedented pilot maintenance write-ups, many at the time of scheduled departure, which is having an impact on our operation,” spokeswoman Andrea Huguely wrote in an e-mail. “We sincerely apologize to our customers for any inconvenience this is causing. Our focus remains on getting our customers where they need to go.”
    I just got back from a trip to the east coast. I flew into Philadelphia on a different airline, but returned from Boston on American. I actually didn't even purchase an American Airlines ticket. I purchased an Alaska Airlines ticket, only later realizing that the flight is "operated by American". That is, Alaska was only acting as American's affiliate, and otherwise had nothing to do with the flight.

    As soon as I realized I was on American going home, I had a strong feeling that I was going to get fucked.

    I repeatedly checked that my flight was leaving on time. Indeed, until about an hour before flight time, it was departing Boston Logan Airport at 7:35pm as scheduled.

    Then the problems began -- following a pattern almost identical to the 1,000+ canceled and delayed American flights in recent weeks.

    - The flight's departure time was curiously changed from 7:35pm to 7:42pm -- a delay of just 7 minutes. Unfortunately, I noticed that various blogs about American's problems mentioned that the delays/cancellations originally began as 5-10 minute scheduled delays, so I knew this was a bad sign.

    - We boarded the plane, and everything seemed fine. For a short time, I thought we had dodged a bullet.

    - After inexplicably sitting on the ground for 15-20 minutes, the pilot came on and announced that the plane had an oil leak. Obviously all the passengers did not like hearing this, as an actual oil leak can be dangerous. The pilot continued to describe the situation, noting, "This plane has had a history of oil leaks, so we need to be sure that everything's okay. We see possible evidence of a minor oil leak here, so maintenance just needs to verify that the plane is not leaking oil and we will be on our way."

    - We sat for another 15 minutes or so. The pilot came on again. He informed us, "This is the third time the plane has leaked oil this year, so we need to call Tulsa and get clearance to take off. The condition of the engine is within safety parameters, but we need to get permission to take off because of the plane's history. It will be about 10 minutes and we'll be ready to go."

    - We sat for another 15 minutes or so. A new guy came on the speaker, announcing, "This is the ground crew. This plane has been taken out of service, but we have a new plane that will be replacing it, which is pulling up to Gate 31. You need to disembark at this time and go to Gate 31. Sorry for the inconvenience."

    - The new plane was not ready to be boarded until after 9pm. We did not take off until about 10pm.

    I tweeted about American Airlines, using @AmericanAir when writing about them. Surprisingly, I got an immediate response -- and from a real human being. However, as one might expect, it was a powerless monkey who just offered me "new departure information" and repeatedly apologized for the cancellation/delay. He/she would not address any of the points I was making.

    Todd Witteles
    I am currently a victim of the @AmericanAir labor issues. Obviously fake "oil leak" has canceled flight & caused 2 hour delay

    Todd Witteles
    Pattern of maintenance problem & how it was handled almost identically mirrors 1000 other delayed & canceled flights in past month

    Todd Witteles
    flight = joke @AmericanAir
    American Airlines
    @toddwitteles We're sorry for the delay, Todd. What is the flight number?
    Todd Witteles
    @AmericanAir Why does flight # matter? Pilots & maintenance staff has pulled this on 1000 flights in past month.

    Todd Witteles
    @AmericanAir Tiny chance this is a real unforeseen problem but this went down in almost identical fashion to so many others recently
    American Airlines
    @toddwitteles We can provide updated departure info if it will help.

    American Airlines
    @toddwitteles We understand delays are frustrating. Hopefully you will be in the air soon. Thanks for your patience.



    Anyway, it's just about 100% that this "oil leak" was phony.

    The pattern of what occurred is almost identical to other "maintenance groundings" over the past month.

    The pilot made sure to inform the passengers of far more details than usual, mentioning a scary "oil leak" and then telling everyone that the plane has a history of oil leaks. This served to make passengers both blame American for the delay and fear flying on American again.

    Also, I spotted duct tape holding together one of the seat rests. There have been other reports of duct tape on American flights, again a tactic by maintenance crews (who are on the pilots' side) to make the airline look unsafe and unprofessional.

    A few weeks ago, some planes were found with loose seats -- something believed to have been a deliberate sabotage that also gave the appearance of American being unsafe.

    I would seriously advise AVOIDING American until all of this is solved.

    While it is not clear who is in the right regarding the actual labor dispute, the pilots are being real assholes with their tactics -- harming innocent passengers in order to pressure American to capitulate to their demands. Innocent third parties should never be dragged into labor disputes.

    I really hate unions.

  2. #2
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10151
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,783
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Also, apparently this is being done to planes that are expected to make several more immediate flights, thus automatically canceling other flights, as well. The planes stay grounded in inconvenient locations, where American has to ship all kinds of spare parts to get things going again.

  3. #3
    Bronze
    Reputation
    13
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    164
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Scab pilots?

  4. #4
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
    Reputation
    36
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,812
    Load Metric
    68011186
    So you are willing to take the chance that the oil leak was a fabrication and not a real issues based on some rudimentary Internet searches on the AA labor dispute? I highly doubt that the thousands of recent reports were all "nothing". The spokeswomen even said "an unprecedented amount" not "unprecedented claims" or something suggesting that maintenace reports are extremely rare.

    Were you likely grounded because of a pilot finding a small, insignificant issue? Probably, but do you want to take the chance that there was an actual oil leak? Not me, not on a plane!
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  5. #5
    NoFraud Poker Room Manager Belly Buster's Avatar
    Reputation
    1346
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,626
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Sick that unions can wield this much power. It only works in certain sectors which have a direct affect on the public, transport being the easiest target.

    The western economy is mostly busto and AA is actually busto, yet one militant pilot can screw over a couple of hundred people trying to go about their daily business in order to squeeze out a slightly better pay deal.

    I'm sure these pilots have had a rough time, and they are no doubt pissed with management. But that goes for 90% of employees, most of which can't do anything about it.

    Ultimately people will avoid AA if this continues and then they'll all be out of job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    BTW JACKDANIELS is the first one banned from the thread. He is accusing me of being "duped by a middle aged man who dresses like John Cena"
    #FREEJACK #NEVERFORGET

    NoFraud Online Poker Room: http://nofraud.pokerfraudalert.com:8087. For password resets and reload requests PM me.

  6. #6
    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
    Reputation
    1243
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Bowling Alley
    Posts
    8,875
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Instead of hating the unions try hating the bankruptcy laws. Also, why aren't management taking a pay cut?

    SOBCHAK SECURITY 213-799-7798

    PRESIDENT JOSEPH R. BIDEN JR., THE GREAT AND POWERFUL

  7. #7
    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
    Reputation
    1243
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Bowling Alley
    Posts
    8,875
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Quote Originally Posted by Belly Buster View Post
    Sick that unions can wield this much power. It only works in certain sectors which have a direct affect on the public, transport being the easiest target.

    The western economy is mostly busto and AA is actually busto, yet one militant pilot can screw over a couple of hundred people trying to go about their daily business in order to squeeze out a slightly better pay deal.

    I'm sure these pilots have had a rough time, and they are no doubt pissed with management. But that goes for 90% of employees, most of which can't do anything about it.

    Ultimately people will avoid AA if this continues and then they'll all be out of job.
    If they are losing money they can cut capacity and eliminate unprofitable routes like Delta and The newly merged United/Continental have done. Instead of making sound changes to operations AA is using bankruptcy to extract further concessions from its flight crews who already work long hours for mediocre pay and to reduce the likelihood of regulatory hurdles to a merger with US Airways.

    SOBCHAK SECURITY 213-799-7798

    PRESIDENT JOSEPH R. BIDEN JR., THE GREAT AND POWERFUL

  8. #8
    Gold anonamoose's Avatar
    Reputation
    127
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    2,038
    Load Metric
    68011186
    air canada pilots started to do this same thing when canada tried making it illegal for pilots to strike.

  9. #9
    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
    Reputation
    1243
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Bowling Alley
    Posts
    8,875
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Anyone who thinks pilots live well should watch this: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/. It's not all about pilots but there is extensive discussion about pilot fatigue which was a contributing factor to the crash.

    And these:






    SOBCHAK SECURITY 213-799-7798

    PRESIDENT JOSEPH R. BIDEN JR., THE GREAT AND POWERFUL

  10. #10
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10151
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,783
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    So you are willing to take the chance that the oil leak was a fabrication and not a real issues based on some rudimentary Internet searches on the AA labor dispute? I highly doubt that the thousands of recent reports were all "nothing". The spokeswomen even said "an unprecedented amount" not "unprecedented claims" or something suggesting that maintenace reports are extremely rare.

    Were you likely grounded because of a pilot finding a small, insignificant issue? Probably, but do you want to take the chance that there was an actual oil leak? Not me, not on a plane!
    Please tell me you're not naive enough to believe that the severe spike in maintenance-related groundings/delays have been because of actual maintenance problems that caused a danger to passengers and crew.

    Do you think that AA's planes suddenly developed numerous dangerous mechanical issues at the exact same time that AA was having labor issues with the pilots?

    This was an obvious fabrication, right down to the overly-descriptive (and intentionally scary) report given to passengers as it was occurring. Usually when a plane has real mechanical issues, they are as non-specific as possible, in order to prevent making passengers feel scared or uncomfortable. You never hear things like, "This plane has a history of leaking oil" or "This is the third time the plane has leaked oil, but we can still fly within safety parameters".

    You asked if I want to "take the chance" to fly with an actual oil leak. No, I don't -- but I don't have to take any chances, because the plane being grounded is not my decision. When I get on a plane, I trust the maintenance staff and pilots to do the right thing. That is, they should fly if it's safe, and not fly if it's unsafe. There are more than 1,000 reports in the past month of fabricated and/or exaggerated mechanical issues that have grounded/delayed safe planes.

    While I cannot prove this, I find it to be highly likely that the first plane I boarded was perfectly safe. Notice that, in my situation, they suddenly decided to check for the oil leak AFTER everyone was boarded. If the plane had such a bad history for leaks, why not check beforehand during the normal maintenance inspections? The answer: Because this oil leak was BS, and was an excuse to cancel a flight and ground a plane in Boston.

    When I fly an airline, I put my trust in both the company itself and the employees that work there. The employees -- at least the pilots and maintenance staff -- are abusing that trust and causing extreme inconvenience and wasted time for hundreds of thousands of innocent passengers.

  11. #11
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10151
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,783
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Belly Buster View Post
    Sick that unions can wield this much power. It only works in certain sectors which have a direct affect on the public, transport being the easiest target.

    The western economy is mostly busto and AA is actually busto, yet one militant pilot can screw over a couple of hundred people trying to go about their daily business in order to squeeze out a slightly better pay deal.

    I'm sure these pilots have had a rough time, and they are no doubt pissed with management. But that goes for 90% of employees, most of which can't do anything about it.

    Ultimately people will avoid AA if this continues and then they'll all be out of job.
    If they are losing money they can cut capacity and eliminate unprofitable routes like Delta and The newly merged United/Continental have done. Instead of making sound changes to operations AA is using bankruptcy to extract further concessions from its flight crews who already work long hours for mediocre pay and to reduce the likelihood of regulatory hurdles to a merger with US Airways.
    I am not taking sides in the labor dispute. I don't know who is right in that one.

    My problem is that the pilots are using innocent passengers as a weapon against the airlines, by intentionally creating delays and cancelled flights, as well as scaring passengers about supposedly serious mechanical issues with AA's planes.

    If the union has a problem with AA, they should take their anger out on AA itself, not hurt innocent third-parties in order to hurt AA by extension.

    There is never an excuse for unions to wreak havoc upon innocent people in order to get their way, regardless of how badly their employer is treating them.

    It would be like a chef pissing in your food because the restaurant owner doesn't pay him enough.

  12. #12
    Platinum ftpjesus's Avatar
    Reputation
    589
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    4,088
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Quote Originally Posted by Belly Buster View Post
    Sick that unions can wield this much power. It only works in certain sectors which have a direct affect on the public, transport being the easiest target.

    The western economy is mostly busto and AA is actually busto, yet one militant pilot can screw over a couple of hundred people trying to go about their daily business in order to squeeze out a slightly better pay deal.

    I'm sure these pilots have had a rough time, and they are no doubt pissed with management. But that goes for 90% of employees, most of which can't do anything about it.

    Ultimately people will avoid AA if this continues and then they'll all be out of job.
    The lowly regional air carrier pilots I might feel sorry for, but all these major airline pilots like AA and Delta and others are making as much as lawyers and doctors while working nowhere near as hard, other then take off and landing these fuckers kick back 90% of the way (compared to an MD doing surgery who has to be on his feet for 8-10hrs nearly nonstop and extremely high attentiveness) and just chill with the AP on while collecting 6 figures a year. Sure they may travel alot but so does a fucking 18wheel truck driver who too has alot more attentiveness required especially hauling hazmat placarded materials (which in some cases could easily kill many more then on an airplane). Fucking pilots ought to be glad to still have jobs if ya ask me instead of continuing the greedy bullshit of most union pukes wanting to squeeze more and more until they strangle the company nearly to death (See GM, Chrysler,etc)

    For our friend Walter here's an excerpt regarding the pay of Captains at the major airlines.

    "The lowest top-scale captain’s salary was $123,480 at JetBlue Airways, and the highest among passenger airlines was again at Southwest: $181,270 a year. Many Southwest pilots pick up more trips than the minimum scheduled -– some fly right up to the federal limit of 1,000 hours of flying a year -– so their actual paychecks are higher.

    The only airlines offering higher pay right now: UPS and FedEx. Their captains max out at a minimum of more than $200,000 a year.
    "
    At Delta, American, United and Continental, the top minimum for captains is between $156,000 and $167,000 per year.
    "

    On a side note I wish to hell I could make 100k+ a year for only 1000hrs of "flying" again most of which is on AutoPilot considering the normal work year is 2080 for most people. So based on 1000hrs these guys FLY 20hrs a week assuming 2 weeks off a year..

  13. #13
    Gold Deal's Avatar
    Reputation
    109
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Mississauga
    Posts
    2,334
    Load Metric
    68011186
    In before 408mike decides to try and join the airforce.

    It's extremely expensive to become a pilot and the pilots airtime and flight schedule is heavily seniority based. Young pilots are shit on for years getting the worst flights and layover schedules possible. Wages and promotions have nothing to do with ability, its all seniority. Then if they develop any sort of disability it is gameover. If they were paid any less they would have a hard time filling the seats. They already suggest that as the older pilots retire in the next 5 years there will be pilot shortages. They can't even get enough ethnic women signed up to balance the workforce.

  14. #14
    Walking Image Library
    Reputation
    387
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,627
    Load Metric
    68011186
    JetSuite

    They fly pretty often from LA to Las Vegas. $500 for up to 4 people. You have to check the flights everyday.

    "The surplus of jets in the market has led to a boom in the sales of seats or shares on individual flights. JetSuite, the California-based charter company, is now offering last-minute deals for $499. Travelers this week could charter one of JetSuite's Phenom jets – which seat four people – from Los Angeles to Las Vegas or from Washington to Boston. The $499 price was valid as long as the customers registered through Facebook."

    http://www.jetsuite.com/
    http://www.jetsuite.com/suitedeal
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49269623/Spec...Faster_Cheaper


  15. #15
    Diamond mulva's Avatar
    Reputation
    541
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,957
    Blog Entries
    4
    Load Metric
    68011186
    i think your hardship is deserving of a 100 gift voucher for future flights.

  16. #16
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10151
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,783
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Quote Originally Posted by bukowski72 View Post
    JetSuite

    They fly pretty often from LA to Las Vegas. $500 for up to 4 people. You have to check the flights everyday.

    "The surplus of jets in the market has led to a boom in the sales of seats or shares on individual flights. JetSuite, the California-based charter company, is now offering last-minute deals for $499. Travelers this week could charter one of JetSuite's Phenom jets – which seat four people – from Los Angeles to Las Vegas or from Washington to Boston. The $499 price was valid as long as the customers registered through Facebook."

    http://www.jetsuite.com/
    http://www.jetsuite.com/suitedeal
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49269623/Spec...Faster_Cheaper

    Always felt that flying from LA to Vegas is a waste of time, given the hassle and time you waste at airports on both ends.

    Is it really possible to fly from LA to Vegas and get door-to-door (that is, from your house to your hotel) within 4 hours? Because you can drive it in that time under most circumstances, and then you have your own car (and none of the hassles/bullshit/schedule restrictions associated with flying).

    I have never flown between Vegas and LA.

  17. #17
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10151
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,783
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    68011186
    These days I don't bother flying unless the drive is going to be 500 miles or more.

  18. #18
    Platinum
    Reputation
    424
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    4,214
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    These days I don't bother flying unless the drive is going to be 500 miles or more.
    Still $500 for a private jet is pretty fucking sweet.

  19. #19
    Gold anonamoose's Avatar
    Reputation
    127
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    2,038
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Instead of hating the unions try hating the bankruptcy laws. Also, why aren't management taking a pay cut?
    a lot of the time management is getting paid less or equal to the workers in this case. union where i worked went on strike recently and the average worker there made 80k and the average engineer makes 70k at my location. the managers get 80k plus bonuses of up to 10% their salary which was cut to 5% for this year.

    the 80k of the workers also isn't counting the time and a half and double time they get working on voluntary weekend shifts.

  20. #20
    Gold anonamoose's Avatar
    Reputation
    127
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    2,038
    Load Metric
    68011186
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    So you are willing to take the chance that the oil leak was a fabrication and not a real issues based on some rudimentary Internet searches on the AA labor dispute? I highly doubt that the thousands of recent reports were all "nothing". The spokeswomen even said "an unprecedented amount" not "unprecedented claims" or something suggesting that maintenace reports are extremely rare.

    Were you likely grounded because of a pilot finding a small, insignificant issue? Probably, but do you want to take the chance that there was an actual oil leak? Not me, not on a plane!
    you sir are an idiot.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. American Express to refund $85 million to customers
    By Dan Druff in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-02-2012, 02:43 AM
  2. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-22-2012, 12:46 PM
  3. Best method for selling off airlines miles
    By anonamoose in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-06-2012, 08:44 PM
  4. Druff what is the backstory to this neverwinpoker dispute?
    By BetCheckBet in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-11-2012, 04:27 PM
  5. yet another things American poker players are going to miss out on
    By shortbuspoker in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-07-2012, 03:17 PM