Colonoscopy vs Cologuard

[Dan Druff]

splitthis: Hmmmm human genocide is working

The differing cancer rate under 50 vs 65 is really interesting to me.

“You deserve a break today” was created by the Mad Men of Chicago advertising in 1971. You had to convince mom that fast food was an option. TV dinners were a rarity with their aluminum tins. Mom cooked dinner from simple ingredients. Nothing shipped from Mexico out of season. Maybe someone dropped off fresh eggs and milk on the doorstep in the morning.

You can go on and on once you begin to ponder why there is a difference in rates now.

The microplastics now found in the arterial plaque and the correlation to heart issues is a hot topic. I’ve completely freaked out the wife. She won’t drink or cook with plastic now. Maybe that helps but firstly the damage is done and second microplastocs are all pervasive so it is what it is. Fortunately, she did not grow up with the exposure which is most important.

Fun stuff.

Colon cancer is a brutal way to die but the outlook is pretty grim anyway

There's no way it could be true that cancer is higher for under-50s than those around 65. The risk is tremendously higher at 65.

I will say that in the 2020s we will see some bizarre health data, given that we went about 14 months where people couldn't get routine screenings or important-but-non-emergency procedures done. Hospitals were reserved for COVID patients, which was a huge mistake. Neglecting routine health checks and procedures can be a death sentence for those over 50.

Some of those 2020-21 COVID policies were insane. Imagine not being able to go in to see your mom taking her final breath, and not being allowed to have an outdoor funeral, but Gavin Newsom can eat indoors at the French Laundry at the same time?

[Sanlmar]

splitthis: Hmmmm human genocide is working

The differing cancer rate under 50 vs 65 is really interesting to me.

“You deserve a break today” was created by the Mad Men of Chicago advertising in 1971. You had to convince mom that fast food was an option. TV dinners were a rarity with their aluminum tins. Mom cooked dinner from simple ingredients. Nothing shipped from Mexico out of season. Maybe someone dropped off fresh eggs and milk on the doorstep in the morning.

You can go on and on once you begin to ponder why there is a difference in rates now.

The microplastics now found in the arterial plaque and the correlation to heart issues is a hot topic. I’ve completely freaked out the wife. She won’t drink or cook with plastic now. Maybe that helps but firstly the damage is done and second microplastocs are all pervasive so it is what it is. Fortunately, she did not grow up with the exposure which is most important.

Fun stuff.

Colon cancer is a brutal way to die but the outlook is pretty grim anyway

There's no way it could be true that cancer is higher for under-50s than those around 65. The risk is tremendously higher at 65.

I will say that in the 2020s we will see some bizarre health data, given that we went about 14 months where people couldn't get routine screenings or important-but-non-emergency procedures done. Hospitals were reserved for COVID patients, which was a huge mistake. Neglecting routine health checks and procedures can be a death sentence for those over 50.

Some of those 2020-21 COVID policies were insane. Imagine not being able to go in to see your mom taking her final breath, and not being allowed to have an outdoor funeral, but Gavin Newsom can eat indoors at the French Laundry at the same time?

I am not going to deny you the pleasure of diving in on your own.

Nothing to do with covid.

[BCR]

I am like you in that I hate the idea of being put under.

My concern about this was what had me putting off my first colonoscopy until I was just about 49, despite a family history of colon cancer which killed my grandmother and caused adenoma polyps in my father (which also might have killed him, if not for colonoscopies).

Sure enough, I had some bad looking adenomas in my colon in my 2021 colonoscopy, and I felt stupid for not having done it sooner. Fortunately they were caught in time.

Colon cancer is very hereditary. If you have no known direct family history (parents or grandparents) with colon cancer or colon polyps, you are much less likely to get colon cancer.

This is why they feel Cologuard is fine for those without an elevated risk, but bad for people like me who have a high risk.

I assume you do not have an elevated risk.

The good news is that Cologuard does not have a terrible false negative rate (8%). It DOES have a bad false positive rate -- 13%, last I checked! This means 13% of healthy people get Cologuard results indicating they might have colon cancer! Then you have to twist in the wind until you can schedule an receive a colonoscopy to verify. That would be awful.

The false negative rate of 8% is far higher than that of a colonoscopy, which is why it's not recommended for someone like me.

So if you're willing to tolerate the 13% false positive rate, as well as don't have a family history of colon cancer/polyps, you are probably fine doing Cologuard. It's not ideal, but you're not taking a huge risk.

In fact, colonoscopy is not risk-free. The biggest risk is NOT from the propofol, which is very safe. The risk tends to be from damaging the colon during the procedure, which can sometimes lead to death. For people like me, the risk is justified, as there's a much higher chance I will die of colon cancer than die from the colonoscopy. For someone like you, the risk is probably still justified (because lack of family history doesn't guarantee no colon cancer), but it's not as clear cut.

My mom has no family history of colon cancer. After several completely clear colonoscopies, they actually instructed her that the risk of the procedure was actually higher than the chance polyps would show up, and she was told to stop getting them, and do Cologuard instead.

No family history of Colon cancer. And I should have added that my Primary Care doctor said some new protocol for healthy people with no family history is to wait until 60. Just don't want to be put under without necessity. That being said, I will be put under in May when I have surgery on my shoulder, but I can't put off surgery any longer (it's been 2 1/2 years dealing with Frozen Shoulder, Torn Labrum.) Interesting enough, Shoulder doc says my Frozen Shoulder was caused by getting my Moderna booster shot. There are studies that are showing this data to be real, and he has numerous clients like me who claim their issues started when they got the shot. But he says it could also be caused by the Flu and RSV vaccines).

Going under for a colonoscopy and going under for your shoulder are vastly different things. Twilight sedation isn’t nearly as dangerous as general anesthesia.

I don’t like the false negative rate. 9% is huge. You’ll probably be fine anyway with your family history and lifestyle. I’m sure you eat well and no one who runs like you is pound overweight.

I have the same exact shoulder issues as you. I’ve been dealing with it for over a decade. I’m the guy in the gym multiple times a week doing sets of dumbell presses on the floor as it’s so much easier on shoulder. It still hurts, but bearable. Anything pushing hurts like hell.

I had it as far back as when I lived in Pittsburgh. I went to the Steelers team surgeon, waited months, and they diagnosed me with an AC joint issue. Did surgery, recovered quickly, and the surgery did absolutely nothing. Not even a little bit of relief.

Went to new group, they put me through range of motion exam, said I think you have a torn labrum. Did film, sure enough.

I ask every few years about the recovery and they have always said 9-12 months to get back in gym.

I’ve went every route. My whole gym routine is built around things that hurt less. Use bands to loosen up for half hour before gym. I sleep with pillow wedged so I won’t roll onto right shoulder when I’m sleeping because when I slept on it, the next day was bad.

I had this super hot masseuse I went to for like 5 visits. Just gorgeous. She’d spend an hour with me on my stomach working on it. Helped just a little. One day she suggests this kind of burly 50 year old guy. Of course it can’t be the hot chick.

He goes in on my upper right chest for most of the hour. The next day I felt like I had did 10 sets of incline press. But the frozen shoulder aspect was essentially cured. I’ve been going to him every few weeks for probably 8 years now. Zero walking around discomfort.

But the labrum pain in the gym still hurts and I’m back to wasting a year. I didn’t want to waste a year at 45. Every year it becomes harder to waste most of a year, but I’m going to have to. Have added swimming and pretty much exhausted all the smart things to do to work around it, and it has been getting worse.

What did your surgeon say about recovery? Not to be active, but to throw a football or lift heavy things?

[BCR]

There's no way it could be true that cancer is higher for under-50s than those around 65. The risk is tremendously higher at 65.

I will say that in the 2020s we will see some bizarre health data, given that we went about 14 months where people couldn't get routine screenings or important-but-non-emergency procedures done. Hospitals were reserved for COVID patients, which was a huge mistake. Neglecting routine health checks and procedures can be a death sentence for those over 50.

Some of those 2020-21 COVID policies were insane. Imagine not being able to go in to see your mom taking her final breath, and not being allowed to have an outdoor funeral, but Gavin Newsom can eat indoors at the French Laundry at the same time?

I am not going to deny you the pleasure of diving in on your own.

Nothing to do with covid.

I know this has been a long trend. Since around 1950, every cluster of kids born had a higher incidence of cancer than previous decade. It’s continued. 1960 less than 1970 and so forth.
I’ve read it’s on steroids now last decade.

When I look at all the things they think it could be, I always come back to obesity and diet. It’s worst among the digestive system cancers. Obesity just raises the risk of all cancers so much, and it’s chicken and egg with diet and what’s in food that it’s hard to parse out.

But I’m with you on plastic because when I try to think about what’s different, we are always drinking out of plastic water bottles all day. I actually went back a few years ago to keeping glass bottles in my refrigerator with cold tap water. I’m still out and about and drinking out it plastic, but not 10 times a day. All those cases of Dasani or Aquafina sitting on a loading dock in Florida or Texas in 90 degree heat before getting shipped.

I’m not sold it’s the cause, because the trend started before we drank out of plastic all day, it’s pure conjecture, but would explain the late rapid increase the last decade and the water out of glass tastes better anyway.

I think it’s just weight/additives in food as most likely culprit. All those pics from 1930s, no fat people and way way less cancer.

For a good while they thought it was alcohol. Gen X loves to drink, but with it increasing among young set rapidly, they hardly drink at all.

Never good for pancreas and liver, but obviously not the impetus for the trend.

[Sloppy Joe]

I am not going to deny you the pleasure of diving in on your own.

Nothing to do with covid.

I know this has been a long trend. Since around 1950, every cluster of kids born had a higher incidence of cancer than previous decade. It’s continued. 1960 less than 1970 and so forth.
I’ve read it’s on steroids now last decade.

When I look at all the things they think it could be, I always come back to obesity and diet. It’s worst among the digestive system cancers. Obesity just raises the risk of all cancers so much, and it’s chicken and egg with diet and what’s in food that it’s hard to parse out.

But I’m with you on plastic because when I try to think about what’s different, we are always drinking out of plastic water bottles all day. I actually went back a few years ago to keeping glass bottles in my refrigerator with cold tap water. I’m still out and about and drinking out it plastic, but not 10 times a day. All those cases of Dasani or Aquafina sitting on a loading dock in Florida or Texas in 90 degree heat before getting shipped.

I’m not sold it’s the cause, because the trend started before we drank out of plastic all day, it’s pure conjecture, but would explain the late rapid increase the last decade and the water out of glass tastes better anyway.

I think it’s just weight/additives in food as most likely culprit. All those pics from 1930s, no fat people and way way less cancer.

For a good while they thought it was alcohol. Gen X loves to drink, but with it increasing among young set rapidly, they hardly drink at all.

Never good for pancreas and liver, but obviously not the impetus for the trend.

Definitely food imo.

I have never felt better in my life than the two years I lived in Nepal where I ate 95% local organic food.

Wasn't watching what I ate at all but vegetables were present at every meal. Ate huge portions as well. I entered fat and left looking like a guy from 1950, weighing about 160 pounds.

Diligently ate carefully and started exercising more to not get fat again when I moved back to the states, still gained 15 pounds.

Look at any other culture compared to America, our food is shit and we're conditioned to eating far too much of it.

Thus we are fat and unhealthy.

[Tellafriend]

I know this has been a long trend. Since around 1950, every cluster of kids born had a higher incidence of cancer than previous decade. It’s continued. 1960 less than 1970 and so forth.
I’ve read it’s on steroids now last decade.

When I look at all the things they think it could be, I always come back to obesity and diet. It’s worst among the digestive system cancers. Obesity just raises the risk of all cancers so much, and it’s chicken and egg with diet and what’s in food that it’s hard to parse out.

But I’m with you on plastic because when I try to think about what’s different, we are always drinking out of plastic water bottles all day. I actually went back a few years ago to keeping glass bottles in my refrigerator with cold tap water. I’m still out and about and drinking out it plastic, but not 10 times a day. All those cases of Dasani or Aquafina sitting on a loading dock in Florida or Texas in 90 degree heat before getting shipped.

I’m not sold it’s the cause, because the trend started before we drank out of plastic all day, it’s pure conjecture, but would explain the late rapid increase the last decade and the water out of glass tastes better anyway.

I think it’s just weight/additives in food as most likely culprit. All those pics from 1930s, no fat people and way way less cancer.

For a good while they thought it was alcohol. Gen X loves to drink, but with it increasing among young set rapidly, they hardly drink at all.

Never good for pancreas and liver, but obviously not the impetus for the trend.

Definitely food imo.

I have never felt better in my life than the two years I lived in Nepal where I ate 95% local organic food.

Wasn't watching what I ate at all but vegetables were present at every meal. Ate huge portions as well. I entered fat and left looking like a guy from 1950, weighing about 160 pounds.

Diligently ate carefully and started exercising more to not get fat again when I moved back to the states, still gained 15 pounds.

Look at any other culture compared to America, our food is shit and we're conditioned to eating far too much of it.

Thus we are fat and unhealthy.

wormhole:

being fat has always been a sign of wealth. back in the day, you had to labor manually, hard. and you would eat what you could. only the rich didn't work manually and had some access to sugar -- which is imo the real cancer increase reason. easy access to sugar was difficult until recently.

other cultures have also gotten fatter, not b/c of america, but b/c of their own prosperity. we are just lazy and spoiled as fuck - hence all the fatties.

[Sanlmar]

Definitely food imo.

I have never felt better in my life than the two years I lived in Nepal where I ate 95% local organic food.

Wasn't watching what I ate at all but vegetables were present at every meal. Ate huge portions as well. I entered fat and left looking like a guy from 1950, weighing about 160 pounds.

Diligently ate carefully and started exercising more to not get fat again when I moved back to the states, still gained 15 pounds.

Look at any other culture compared to America, our food is shit and we're conditioned to eating far too much of it.

Thus we are fat and unhealthy.

wormhole:

being fat has always been a sign of wealth. back in the day, you had to labor manually, hard. and you would eat what you could. only the rich didn't work manually and had some access to sugar -- which is imo the real cancer increase reason. easy access to sugar was difficult until recently.

other cultures have also gotten fatter, not b/c of america, but b/c of their own prosperity. we are just lazy and spoiled as fuck - hence all the fatties.

What’s funny is with inflation food companies have been eliminating sugar and using cheaper high fructose (corn) syrups - as well as the whole sneaky shrinkflation scammage.

So sugar may get a second shot at being a luxury item.

Real sugar - Mexican - Coca Cola is the nuts. Not cheap

[Cerveza Fria]

No family history of Colon cancer. And I should have added that my Primary Care doctor said some new protocol for healthy people with no family history is to wait until 60. Just don't want to be put under without necessity. That being said, I will be put under in May when I have surgery on my shoulder, but I can't put off surgery any longer (it's been 2 1/2 years dealing with Frozen Shoulder, Torn Labrum.) Interesting enough, Shoulder doc says my Frozen Shoulder was caused by getting my Moderna booster shot. There are studies that are showing this data to be real, and he has numerous clients like me who claim their issues started when they got the shot. But he says it could also be caused by the Flu and RSV vaccines).

Going under for a colonoscopy and going under for your shoulder are vastly different things. Twilight sedation isn’t nearly as dangerous as general anesthesia.

I don’t like the false negative rate. 9% is huge. You’ll probably be fine anyway with your family history and lifestyle. I’m sure you eat well and no one who runs like you is pound overweight.

I have the same exact shoulder issues as you. I’ve been dealing with it for over a decade. I’m the guy in the gym multiple times a week doing sets of dumbell presses on the floor as it’s so much easier on shoulder. It still hurts, but bearable. Anything pushing hurts like hell.

I had it as far back as when I lived in Pittsburgh. I went to the Steelers team surgeon, waited months, and they diagnosed me with an AC joint issue. Did surgery, recovered quickly, and the surgery did absolutely nothing. Not even a little bit of relief.

Went to new group, they put me through range of motion exam, said I think you have a torn labrum. Did film, sure enough.

I ask every few years about the recovery and they have always said 9-12 months to get back in gym.

I’ve went every route. My whole gym routine is built around things that hurt less. Use bands to loosen up for half hour before gym. I sleep with pillow wedged so I won’t roll onto right shoulder when I’m sleeping because when I slept on it, the next day was bad.

I had this super hot masseuse I went to for like 5 visits. Just gorgeous. She’d spend an hour with me on my stomach working on it. Helped just a little. One day she suggests this kind of burly 50 year old guy. Of course it can’t be the hot chick.

He goes in on my upper right chest for most of the hour. The next day I felt like I had did 10 sets of incline press. But the frozen shoulder aspect was essentially cured. I’ve been going to him every few weeks for probably 8 years now. Zero walking around discomfort.

But the labrum pain in the gym still hurts and I’m back to wasting a year. I didn’t want to waste a year at 45. Every year it becomes harder to waste most of a year, but I’m going to have to. Have added swimming and pretty much exhausted all the smart things to do to work around it, and it has been getting worse.

What did your surgeon say about recovery? Not to be active, but to throw a football or lift heavy things?

So, we're not even doing surgery on the torn labrum. He says that it has nothing to do with my pain. He says it is the Frozen shoulder and that is what is being addressed. He says i shouldn't have any limitations at all as long as I do the post surgery rehab and therapy. And i will. I've always been a gym rat and I will attack my rehab as much as possible without doing damage to my shoulder. I will absolutely put in the work. The problem will be keeping myself out of the gym.

[desertrunner]

BTW I don't get any flu shots. The flu is not very dangerous to my age group. I really don't like risking vaccine side effects for diseases which aren't long term dangerous to me. When I'm over 65, I'll start getting the flu shot, as that's around when the flu starts to be able to kill you.

True odd story- I got the flu shot at work in 2012 and have not had the flu since. I think it’s odd, but a true story. And I won’t get the flu shot again as I just don’t feel comfortable with it.

[Dan Druff]

BTW I don't get any flu shots. The flu is not very dangerous to my age group. I really don't like risking vaccine side effects for diseases which aren't long term dangerous to me. When I'm over 65, I'll start getting the flu shot, as that's around when the flu starts to be able to kill you.

True odd story- I got the flu shot at work in 2012 and have not had the flu since. I think it’s odd, but a true story. And I won’t get the flu shot again as I just don’t feel comfortable with it.

I don't get the flu very often, either. My only flu shot was in 2010 -- the year Benjamin was born. That's because flu is very dangerous for infants. I got it for him, not me.

I believe I've only had the flu twice in the past 25 years, the last being around 10 years ago.

Colds are a different story, as they are super contagious and are very difficult to avoid. Between having a kid and going to live card rooms, I get a lot of them.