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Thread: Credits on TV shows

  1. #1

    Credits on TV shows

    Hello everyone.

    I have not posted much lately because something I posted here almost got me in trouble. A person found a post I made on Google which revealed specific information not known outside of tight circles, and confronted me about it. Fortunately it was a person relatively friendly to me, so I admitted to them that it was me behind the Hollywood Harry account, and that this site does not have a tremendous following anyway (sorry Druff). I told them I would ask Druff to delete the post, which he did. I told this person I would be more careful in the future regarding what I reveal. At least that's what I will do until I retire, then the gloves are off!

    Rather than tell stories about specific shows or people today, I will break down for you how credit sequences of TV shows work. It is actually a lot more complicated than you might think, as there are general agreements made via SAG (Screen Actors Guild), WGA (Writers Guild of America) and DGA (Directors Guild of America). Also, individual contracts can affect these credit sequences, as well.

    I will only cover television in this posts, not films.

    Regarding actors, their appearances in the credits are generally along the following hierarchy, from most important to least important:

    Series regulars (opening theme):
    1) Before title of show in opening credits (frequently not done at all)
    2) "Starring" billing right after title
    3) "Also starring" billing after initial starring billing
    4) Last actor credited in opening, usually as "And [actor] as [character]"
    5) Name shown in middle of opening credits without "starring", "also starring", or the character name
    6) "Co-starring" (not used much anymore)

    Guest stars (printed on episode as it begins)
    7) "Guest starring"/"Special appearance by" [actor] as [character]
    8) And/Featuring [actor] as [character]
    9) [actor] as [character]
    10) Actor's name only

    Closing credits:
    11) First billing on closing credits
    12) Closing credits, actor's name by itself
    13) Closing credits, actor's name listed along with others in the episode
    14) Uncredited

    Often actors can move up the credit hierarchy if they stick with a show long enough, and they become more popular.

    Of these, one of the more complex versions of this occurred with Henry Winkler on Happy Days. As I have posted here before, The Fonz was originally conceived as a minor character, and thus did not even appear in the Season 1 opening credits. However, as Winkler's portrayal of the character became unexpectedly popular, he was presented as "co-starring" along with Marion Ross, Anson Williams, and Donny Most in Season 2, and then was second-billing behind Ron Howard in Season 3 and beyond. When Howard left the series, Winkler got starring billing. Tom Bosley was always shown last in the "Also Starring Tom Bosley as Howard Cunningham". Happy Days' opening featured two "Starring" (first Howard, then Winkler), followed by "Co-Starring" (the lesser important actors), followed by Bosley, who became the 3rd most important behind Howard and Winkler.

    There was some quiet resentment between both Howard and Winkler. Howard wasn't happy that the show quickly changed its focus to make The Fonz the de facto star, and Winkler wasn't happy that Howard continued getting top billing when clearly he wasn't the most popular character. However, the two men mostly stifled these feelings, got along on set, and stayed on good terms.

    Something else you might not know is the fact that recurring guest stars (ones frequently appearing in the show, but not in the opening credits) have a key difference from series regulars (those featured in the opening credits). Series regulars typically are contractually obligated to be available for every single episode, even if not featured. This means that if a last-minute change is made where they are needed to appear in an episode otherwise not featuring them, they have to be available to drop everything and be on set. On the plus side, they get paid for these episodes where such commitments exist. Recurring guest stars sign a contract only for the episodes where they are featured, and thus are permitted to be unavailable or unreachable while the other episodes in the season are being produced.

    There is no specific rule regarding the amount of screen time a series regular will get, versus a recurring guest star. In some cases, a series regular may barely get any screen time for awhile, and at the same time, a recurring guest star will appear on screen a lot. For series stars, it is sometimes written into the contract a minimum amount of screen time they are guaranteed, which may only be violated by mutual agreement (such as a backdoor pilot for a spinoff). These screen time minimums are not all that common anymore, but still exist.

    Writers/producers/directors credits tend to be less complicated, as it's generally understood that most of these credits will not be in the opening theme. Non-actors in the opening theme tend to be ones who do not change throughout the season, such as "Created by", "Developed by", or "Executive producers". They tend not to list directors or writers in the opening credits, as these are typically pre-produced only once during the season, and directors/writers often rotate throughout the season. Primary directors/writers are usually listed in the beginning of the episode.

    Closing credits on television shows are different than movies, as there is simply not enough time to list everyone involved with the production. Thus, many behind-the-scenes figures involved with television shows are uncredited. If they are credited, often it scrolls by so quickly that you'd have to pause the end credits in order to be able to read their name.

    Druff told me an amusing story about an end credits sequence which I will share with you, and hopefully he will not be too mad at me for posting. He told me that about 30 years ago, he had sex with a woman in her 30s who claimed to be an animator of a then-popular cartoon. It was a one night stand sort of thing for both of them, for reasons I will let Druff explain if he wishes. Afterwards Druff wasn't sure if she was telling him the truth, so he set his VCR to record that cartoon, which he otherwise did not watch because he was too old to be watching cartoons at that point of his life. The credit sequence was really fast in order to display everyone's names, and even using the pause button he was unable to read the list of the animators. He had to play with the VCR remote enough to figure out how to do frame by frame play, in order to read the names there. When he finally did this, he saw the woman's name as one of the animators, and felt satisfied that he really did sleep with an animator of a then-popular cartoon.

    Sorry Druff if you have not told this story publicly but it came to mind when discussing TV show credits. You said it was 30 years ago so I doubt anyone will care anyway.

    I hope you are all doing well, and I will see if I can make some more appearances here, but just will be more careful regarding the insider stuff I reveal.

     
    Comments
      
      FRANKRIZZO: interesting back story about fonz and ron howard. I never liked the father bosworth

  2. #2
    I was just thinking about something else regarding closing credits which I suppose is very relevant here.

    I'm sure those of you who listen to Pokerfraudalert Radio know that Druff does his outro while speaking over the All in the Family closing theme.

    This theme was written by composer Roger Kellaway, who was just 30 years old when he got the job to create it for All in the Family. No doubt he did an excellent job, as the theme is quite memorable, and seems to fit perfectly with the moving Queens and Manhattan imagery shown during the closing credits.




    At some point early on, Carroll O'Connor, who was also a singer, asked Kellaway if he could write and perform lyrics to the closing theme. Kellaway, who was 15 years younger than O'Connor and not particularly famous, was flattered that O'Connor liked the song so much, and instantly said yes. This was presented to the public in 1971 during the Sonny and Cher Comedy Hour:



    The person playing the piano in the background is Kellaway.

    Unfortunately, O'Connor, who was very talented but also stubborn and sometimes arrogant, took a bit too much ownership of the song. O'Connor demanded he get credit in the All in the Family closing credits for having co-written the closing theme, even though it was only the instrumental version being played, which was solely written by Kellaway.

    Kellaway was annoyed by this, as almost everyone familiar with the All in the Family closing credits believed he only co-wrote that famous instrumental theme, when in fact it was his own work.

  3. #3
    Nova Scotia's #1 Party Rocker!!!!11 DJ_Chaps's Avatar
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    iirc I made the credits for the Facebook Follies documentary. Felt like GOD.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chaps' 2017-18 NFL $$ Thread

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Disappointed that Harry didn't mention I have an IMDB entry:

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5232114/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Disappointed that Harry didn't mention I have an IMDB entry:

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5232114/



    it’s not always about you

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Chuck Lorre’s Vanity Cards

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyde View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Disappointed that Harry didn't mention I have an IMDB entry:

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5232114/



    it’s not always about you

    in fairness hes both accounts so it kinda is this time.

     
    Comments
      
      Sheesfaced:
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  8. #8
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    Which cartoonist did you fuck?

  9. #9
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyde View Post




    it’s not always about you

    in fairness hes both accounts so it kinda is this time.
    I think young Harry did more than enough to prove himself to be a separate and distinct person.

  10. #10
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickyPipes View Post
    Which cartoonist did you fuck?
    Nobody famous, just a 30s chick who worked as an animator for a very popular cartoon at the time (1993).

    I was only 21. I usually wasn't into older women, and she usually wasn't into younger guys, but we met online and for whatever reason she didn't notice my age while we were chatting (even though it was listed).

    I ended up calling her that same day, and because I sounded a lot older than 21 (my voice then was very similar to now), she assumed I was something like 37. It was only late into the phone call when I realized she didn't know my age, and she was shocked to find out.

    She decided to meet me anyway. She kept saying on the phone beforehand that she pictured me as way older than 21 because of how I sounded, but I kept repeating to her that I didn't look older than 21. First thing she said upon seeing me was, "Oh wow, you really do look 21."

    Thought I had no shot at that point but we got along really well and things happened anyway. I liked her. Fun girl, pretty, and easygoing.

    Unfortunately I found out shortly after that she had a boyfriend in his mid-40s, and was cheating on him, so that kinda took the wind out of that sail for me. Fun night though. Most of the stuff happened on the top of the parking structure of what is now the Westwood One studios in Sherman Oaks.

  11. #11
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    sounds like you were the early 1990s Mack Daddy of the online chat and party lines

  12. #12
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    Druff how many women have you laid the Pipe upon?

    just from listening to your radio show and reading your forum, I feel like I have heard a lot of stories about you banging box

    must be at least 10 or more stories I have heard over the years

    You were doing PUA before it was even a thing pal, gotta give you props, even going after the middle aged crowd as a young man, cougar hunting in the hollywood hills

  13. #13
    Hurricane Expert tgull's Avatar
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    No offense, but I have read a few of these Holly Henderson posts and they are the most uninteresting posts I have ever read. I am not trolling Druff so don't worry, but I am intellectually curious as you know, but I just can't get into shows about the 1980s like Family Ties or whatever. I mean this is an awful read every time.

    Seriously, these posts have been like WTF cringe worthy.

  14. #14
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    Druff is the one writing this thread ?

     
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      sonatine: Yes its him.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickyPipes View Post
    Druff is the one writing this thread ?
    This was debunked a long time ago.

    Harry's actual identity is a mystery, but even if you knew his name, he is not famous. He is in some end credits of TV shows and movies (mostly TV). He's over 60 and played in the 2023 Super Seniors event at the WSOP. I tried to get him to play the regular Seniors with me, but he was too busy.

    He has posted a lot of very accurate stuff which can't otherwise be found on Google, including release dates of modern TV shows long before those dates are announced.

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    Do you consider yourself a Pick Up Artist?

  17. #17
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickyPipes View Post
    Druff is the one writing this thread ?

    these threads mysteriously started after it became public that i wrote for dr who back in the days.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    You were a tv show writer?

    You’re the one from Druff date?

     
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      lol wow: ziiiiiing

  19. #19
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickyPipes View Post
    Do you consider yourself a Pick Up Artist?
    No. While the PUA stuff can be successful if done right, I found it to be dishonest and manipulative, so I was never interested in that sort of thing.

    The PUA routine did get one thing right, though -- basically that it's the kiss of death to project either desperation or over-eagerness. So in my first few phone calls with these girls, I would just talk normally and make conversation about a bunch of different topics, and never give any compliments or express the desire to take them out. I would wait until they would show they were into me, and only at that point would I start to express interest on my end.

    This differed from PUA stuff in that I never did any of that negging crap, nor did I act like an arrogant asshole. I showed interest in talking to them, but nothing beyond that until they started hinting (or outright saying) that they liked me. And if it seemed that things just weren't clicking personality-wise, I would just abandon ship and be done. You can't really force that sort of thing.

    Once I'd build up the excitement over the phone, all I had to do was "break even" at the in-person first date -- meaning not fuck things up -- and it would go great, at least in the short term. I had this routine down so well by my 30s that I had almost zero faildates in those years.

    Anyway, this all worked really well back in the '80s, '90s, and '00s, and I suspect would still work today.

  20. #20
    works better today , the 20-30 year old women have a serious lack of men trying to approach them like people did 20 years ago.

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