Hamas hits Israel in unprecedented attack.

[Kalam]

I would like to believe Hamas will be destroyed forever after the fighting is over, but I know it's probably a pipe dream.

Am Yisroel Chai עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

The exact name of the organizations running the guerrilla war can change, and it probably wouldn't change the situation very much. What needs to happen to actually change the status quo is the Palestinians giving up on the generational dream to reconquer Israel through armed combat. And I dont think there is actually any reasonable concessions Israel could make that would spur this to happen.

I mean, I am sure a lot of Western and Arab nations would be happier if Israel stop colonizing the West Bank with their own right wing wackos. But I dont think this has appreciably altered the Palestinian political project of reconquering Israel very much, one way or another. Reconquering seems to have been the political goal before, during, and probably after.

Will bombing Gaza back into the Stone Age facilitate an ideological shift, or cause the Palestinians to just give up? I really dont know. Such brutal tactics seemed to have worked with China and Xianjing, where there is no expectations that political Islam will ever create problems ever again. But I also acknowledge the fact Arabs are so racist against Jews for historical reasons and Israel having religious importance complicates matters.

But it seems pretty obvious if Israel just retreated back to the border and everything goes back to the way it was before, nothing will change.

[Kalam]

Your description of Gaza - baby making factory and all - could describe Chicago or Baltimore. Where there is no prosperity nothing good results.

How did Netanyahu or anyone else think this would turn out long term? Bibi has been the monarch in Israel for a generation. My answer is he had plans.

Let’s not spoil your previous narrative though. I do not care about Israel particularly. I understand anything goes when survival is at stake.

I specifically do not want to endorse any of it with our aid. Our involvement will only make the Middle East worse anyway. This is on them.

Now imagine that outside countries were literally funneling weapons into Chicago and Baltimore for the express purpose to attack wealthy white suburbs? And they launched a raid into the white part of town and killed thousands and took hundreds hostage? Would the wealthy white suburbs just shrug their shoulders and accept this? I doubt it.

Again, I am not saying Israel is some great nation making great choices. I am just saying the entire situation is really bizarre and untenable, and not doing anyone any favors. Who is actually benefitting from all the outside aid and political activism? Certainly not the Palestinian people.

You realize we also provide a lot of the aid to Gaza too, which invariably facilitates the generational guerrilla war effort? Do you also want to rescind this?

Anyways, my understanding is a lot of the aid we give Israel is to bribe them and Egypt not to fight each other anymore, which has actually worked well, even after there was a military coup in Egypt. We kept giving Egypt the aid and they seemingly have stayed committed to not fighting Israel.

Regardless, I suspect if the deal was Israel and Gaza would stop getting outside aid, including military aid to militants from Qatar and Iran (outside of the money designated to Israel and Egypt not to fight) Israel would accept this. As the entire Gaza guerrilla war effort would instantly crumble and Israel wouldn't be affected much.

[Kalam]

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...israeli-media/

"Over 5,000 Israeli soldiers injured since Oct. 7, with 58% seriously: Israeli media"

--I dont know how accurate this number is, but assuming it is ballpark, throw in another 500 or so dead and this is actually a very big number for such a small country. And the only reason the number is as small as it is is because of all the bombs they are dropping before they come in to soften things up. Israel isn't dropping so many bombs just to be cruel, it is actually necessary given the small size of their country and the nature of urban warfare. And truthfully they may be way be acting way too careful of harming Palestinians at the cost of their own military capability, and hence national survival.

Especially if Hezbollah/Iran decides to open another front, Israel might have to decide they need to just carpet bomb Gaza, Hamburg style and not worry about Palestinian civilian casualties at all. That is assuming they decide they need to win and the juice is worth the squeeze. I dont know who is doing those calculations or what they are deciding.

[hesterandeldridge]

if Israel "carpet bombs" Gaza , seems like they already have , but if they do in your eyes what type of response should we expect?

if hamas carpet bombs tel aviv what type of response can we expect?

[Kalam]

if Israel "carpet bombs" Gaza , seems like they already have , but if they do in your eyes what type of response should we expect?

if hamas carpet bombs tel aviv what type of response can we expect?

Response from who?

Anyways, I dont know if Israel will ultimately decide if winning, or even surviving, is worth it. Maybe it wont and it will just take the L and retreat back and wait for the next attack in a few years. I am just stating what a country as small as Israel would have to do to actually pacify a giant, hostile urban area like Gaza.

Or alternatively, the world could just stop giving Gaza aid and weapons, and they would be forced to seriously come to the peace table or they would all starve to death. Like I said, it is a very bizarre situation where we have this giant refugee camp that is completely reliant on outside aid just so they can undertake a guerrilla war, with no plan to do anything productive or move forward in any meaningful way.

[Sanlmar]

As you pointed out previously this will likely be a Pyrrhic victory for Israel as far as the world stage is concerned.

Maybe not fair but facts

[splitthis]

There is a recent young Palestinian girl who moved into a small rental down the road.

I noticed many new spotlights around where she lives that are on all night.

Next time I see her gonna ask her opinion on war and why she has that area looking like a stadium with a game running.

If she moved here after the war started I doubt she would have told anyone her origin.

[DJ_Chaps]

There is a recent young Palestinian girl who moved into a small rental down the road.

I noticed many new spotlights around where she lives that are on all night.

Next time I see her gonna ask her opinion on war and why she has that area looking like a stadium with a game running.

If she moved here after the war started I doubt she would have told anyone her origin.

I SUGGEST YOU FOREGO THE FLIRTING STAGE AND JUST JUMP RIGHT INTO BURNING A CROSS ON HER LAWN.

[Kalam]

As you pointed out previously this will likely be a Pyrrhic victory for Israel as far as the world stage is concerned.

Maybe not fair but facts

People have short memories. If things go back to the status quo and the Palestinians in Gaza can continue the belligerence, supported by Western leftists and states like Qatar and Iran, it will be a disaster for Israel; one that greatly diminishes them. IF they can actually pacify Gaza and force some kind of real peace, then eventually the world will forget and move on.

I have no clue if it can/will happen though. Given the small size of their country, and the low tolerance of the Israeli public with losing soldiers lives, there may be no way to accomplish the task without too many Israeli soldiers dying/injured. And other Western nations dont have the tolerance for allowing Israel to undergo a safer war effort for themselves, which would result in a lot more collateral damage.

[donkdowndonedied]

I would like to believe Hamas will be destroyed forever after the fighting is over, but I know it's probably a pipe dream.

Am Yisroel Chai עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

The exact name of the organizations running the guerrilla war can change, and it probably wouldn't change the situation very much. What needs to happen to actually change the status quo is the Palestinians giving up on the generational dream to reconquer Israel through armed combat. And I dont think there is actually any reasonable concessions Israel could make that would spur this to happen.

I mean, I am sure a lot of Western and Arab nations would be happier if Israel stop colonizing the West Bank with their own right wing wackos. But I dont think this has appreciably altered the Palestinian political project of reconquering Israel very much, one way or another. Reconquering seems to have been the political goal before, during, and probably after.

Will bombing Gaza back into the Stone Age facilitate an ideological shift, or cause the Palestinians to just give up? I really dont know. Such brutal tactics seemed to have worked with China and Xianjing, where there is no expectations that political Islam will ever create problems ever again. But I also acknowledge the fact Arabs are so racist against Jews for historical reasons and Israel having religious importance complicates matters.

But it seems pretty obvious if Israel just retreated back to the border and everything goes back to the way it was before, nothing will change.

Israel supposedly knows where these tunnels are so why weren't they just filled with sea water ? I guess that would be an act of aggression but if they are going under the border.. if Israel had been given plenty of time. I guess they're probably not all that interconnected but still. I love that idea.

[Dan Druff]

if Israel "carpet bombs" Gaza , seems like they already have , but if they do in your eyes what type of response should we expect?

if hamas carpet bombs tel aviv what type of response can we expect?

Hamas is already doing all they can to go after Israel. That's basically what we saw on 10/7.

There is no such thing as making Hamas angrier to where now they'll do something much worse. You have to lose your temptation to place western thinking onto middle-eastern terrorist groups. Their goal is and always has been to destroy Israel and wipe out as many Jews as possible. If they could have done this, they would have already, with or without provocation, and they wouldn't mind dying in the process if it meant they'd destroy Israel at the same time. Mutually assured destruction is NOT a deterrent to Islamic terrorists, which is why you have to be so careful to keep WMDs out of their hands.

[Orko]

Everyones saying what should Israel do? Simple, quit being racists and adopt the same policies Jews championed in Europe, America. Australia and even Iceland.

The Palestinians are not Hamas, why are they locked in Gaza for decades.
Palestinians aren't given an option to leave, they can never say ok ive had enough i want to relocate.
Now all of a sudden they're being kicked out, why didn't Israel do this 30 years ago.

Israel/palestine has cost America like $3 trillion.
This was years and years ago.
https://www.wrmea.org/2003-june/the-costs-to-american-taxpayers-of-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-$3-trillion.html
If bibi gets his way we will be at war w Iran.
ASecond Trump term or a Pres Hayley will mean war.

[Orko]

A dose of reality.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1727352593037586682


This is crazy, that missile or whatever wasn't very close and still did that. Israel is handing these things out like candy.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1722771008942137588



You cannot comprehend how terriifying loud this is. no you can't. When I was a kid they dynamited a mountain to prevent future rockslides. I was half a mile away or so and it was the most terrifying thing ive ever heard. It was so fucking loud, the ground shook, there are no words to accurately describe it and it's nothing compared to the above. Every kid in Gaza almost certainly has
severe PTSD times 100.

[Orko]

Nothing to do w Gaza but going super viral.
It's pretty lol, Polish MP uses fire extinguisher on menorah.

[donkdowndonedied]

People have short memories. If things go back to the status quo and the Palestinians in Gaza can continue the belligerence, supported by Western leftists and states like Qatar and Iran, it will be a disaster for Israel; one that greatly diminishes them. IF they can actually pacify Gaza and force some kind of real peace, then eventually the world will forget and move on.

I have no clue if it can/will happen though. Given the small size of their country, and the low tolerance of the Israeli public with losing soldiers lives, there may be no way to accomplish the task without too many Israeli soldiers dying/injured. And other Western nations dont have the tolerance for allowing Israel to undergo a safer war effort for themselves, which would result in a lot more collateral damage.

In general I like your takes on things. That being Israel is just too small to do a military operation like many want.

I do have to question the following narrative - "Gaza can continue the belligerence, supported by Western leftists."

The positon seems to typically be that they want Israel to do something about Gaza/Palestinians. Act on the actions of the crazy settlers. Until this there is a great lack of sympathy for the Israeli side because they see little coming from the Israeli side. Also many in Gaza just are stunted in their opportunities. I can't say I know enough to know what and who to fully blame but if you read the econmic stats on gaza it is somewhat shocking.

These leftists stand against the current strictly pro-Israel narratives but to be fair, many are just being tribal/woke. Yet there is an important distinction from blindly supporting Hamas. Liberals seem more ready to acknowledge how few choices and opportunities many in Gaza have which means lack of sympathy for Israel being attacked. That doesn't mean they support but they understand.

It is a great talking point to dismiss the liberals views though. I'm sure the Zionists love to see that sort of thought process.

I might have to repost my post from another thread. Sadly I had no useful responses where I'd like to hear the views of the opposing sides.

[hesterandeldridge]

if Israel "carpet bombs" Gaza , seems like they already have , but if they do in your eyes what type of response should we expect?

if hamas carpet bombs tel aviv what type of response can we expect?

Hamas is already doing all they can to go after Israel. That's basically what we saw on 10/7.

There is no such thing as making Hamas angrier to where now they'll do something much worse. You have to lose your temptation to place western thinking onto middle-eastern terrorist groups. Their goal is and always has been to destroy Israel and wipe out as many Jews as possible. If they could have done this, they would have already, with or without provocation, and they wouldn't mind dying in the process if it meant they'd destroy Israel at the same time. Mutually assured destruction is NOT a deterrent to Islamic terrorists, which is why you have to be so careful to keep WMDs out of their hands.

yet its not tel aviv that is getting destroyed with missiles, its Gaza , how many dead israelis since October 8th ? how many dead Palestinians?

i don't trust israel at all with wmd's as the minute they grt invaded they will unleash on whoever they think is behind it.

[Orko]

Hamas is just regular dudes who're resisting decades of death humiliation and torture.
Israel created and funded Hamas, their defacto leader in Netanyahu.

What's next? Bury em alive obv.

[Tellafriend]

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/Vox_Oculi/status/1734936219644309788

[1dollarboxcar]

IDF soldier takes out 2 Hamas fighters, even after close call with grenade, very close combat

WANING NSFW WARNING NSFW


https://theync.com/media/videos/6/5/...8e1b9b4769.mp4

[Orko]

ync links aren't for me.

Those captured soldiers above and the ones Israel paraded around in their underwear aren't Hamas. Regular Palestians used in an Israeli psyop.
Hamas has a no surrender policy, all this
according to Scott Ritter below.


It's strange how Israel lies by default, always.