ACR trying to seriously F with Poker as a game changing its structure totally

[ftpjesus]

Theres been a decent discussion on X/Twitter that Poker clown Phil Nagy is proposing changes to ACR that will cause the software to return cards discarded to the constant shuffle algorithm meaning YES you guessed it discarded cards could in fact be showing up on the flop turn and river even. Outs that shouldve been eliminated will suddenly return and likely lead to chasing even more so by donkeys at the table and will make suck outs even more likely to occur. Some narrow minded folks have suggested its necessary to cut down on collusion.. Lets be honest does anybody believe Nagy gives a shit about collusion on his site. He doesnt even care about the bots that still infest ACR. The real seedy reason is simple and shouldnt be hard to figure out. It means VPIP increase and thus more rake for ACR by clowns chasing cards and indeed it will increase suckouts as now somebody should be card dead would still have a 2.5% shot of a particular card still coming if its put back into the pile.

Imagine if a live room did this. It would be like them taking all the preflop cards folded putting them back in the deck running it through the autoshuffler again and then the flop process repeated again after folds before the turn and same with the river. How asinine is this? It stops being poker it skews any logical pot odds and outs as now the assumption would be hey I have that many outs unless they show up on the board. This isnt poker folks this turns online into a bigger shit show then it already is and totally changes the game into something its not and shouldnt.

[sonatine]

fwiw i think they actually do this in full table stud? maybe PLO too? been a while but i know its not unheard outside holdem. but yeah lol at doing this with holdem too.

[BetCheckBet]

It wont really change odds at all. Strategy is unchanged. There are weird examples where calculating ranges preflop in multiple way 3 bet pots might actually change something by a percent or two. But really this affects nothing except perception of the game (which is the biggest concern) The real problem is fish could see this and become worried about fair shuffling or just not feel cool about the idea.

The card dead thing is not an issue as you'd never know you were card dead anyways in online games unless players were showing their cards.

If people are dumb enough to increase their vpip because of this it’s free money for good players. I’m ashamed op doesn’t understand this. When you calculate outs you do so from all cards remaining including in players hands not just the deck. This is basic poker math.

Tv poker calculates odds differently cause they see all cards but players still have to calculate based off of theoretical outs nor actual outs.

[dwai]

poker is gay af

[Bilbodoggins]

It wont really change odds at all. Strategy is unchanged. There are weird examples where calculating ranges preflop in multiple way 3 bet pots might actually change something by a percent or two. But really this affects nothing except perception of the game (which is the biggest concern) The real problem is fish could see this and become worried about fair shuffling or just not feel cool about the idea.

The card dead thing is not an issue as you'd never know you were card dead anyways in online games unless players were showing their cards.

If people are dumb enough to increase their vpip because of this it’s free money for good players. I’m ashamed op doesn’t understand this. When you calculate outs you do so from all cards remaining including in players hands not just the deck. This is basic poker math.
awkward
Tv poker calculates odds differently cause they see all cards but players still have to calculate based off of theoretical outs nor actual outs.

I was thinking the same thing but I couldn't have stated it as clearly. Yes, I DO think Nagy gives a fuck about collusion at ACR. However ineffective he has been at stopping it, I think he would do something if he knew what to do. As BCB stated, the only ones who might benefit from this development are good players who realize it makes no difference, as they would start taking more money faster from the bad players.
This would be entirely different in stud. I gave up playing stud many years ago when I admitted that I could not keep track of cards already seen. I knew that aome players COULD keep track and this gave them a big advantage over me. With a constant shuffle feature this advantage would be eliminated and I might still be playing stud today.

(Disclaimer: No AI was used in the construction of this response. All awkward sentence structure is soley the fault of the author's 7th grade English teacher)

[GrenadaRoger]

It wont really change odds at all. Strategy is unchanged. There are weird examples where calculating ranges preflop in multiple way 3 bet pots might actually change something by a percent or two. But really this affects nothing except perception of the game (which is the biggest concern) The real problem is fish could see this and become worried about fair shuffling or just not feel cool about the idea.

The card dead thing is not an issue as you'd never know you were card dead anyways in online games unless players were showing their cards.

If people are dumb enough to increase their vpip because of this it’s free money for good players. I’m ashamed op doesn’t understand this. When you calculate outs you do so from all cards remaining including in players hands not just the deck. This is basic poker math.

Tv poker calculates odds differently cause they see all cards but players still have to calculate based off of theoretical outs nor actual outs.

i don't like it because i believe it will give the computer geeks more edge...they will simulate the current rules v proposed change (and can infer which hands will be folded using tables for preflop playable hands)

[sah_24]

It wont really change odds at all. Strategy is unchanged. There are weird examples where calculating ranges preflop in multiple way 3 bet pots might actually change something by a percent or two. But really this affects nothing except perception of the game (which is the biggest concern) The real problem is fish could see this and become worried about fair shuffling or just not feel cool about the idea.

The card dead thing is not an issue as you'd never know you were card dead anyways in online games unless players were showing their cards.

If people are dumb enough to increase their vpip because of this it’s free money for good players. I’m ashamed op doesn’t understand this. When you calculate outs you do so from all cards remaining including in players hands not just the deck. This is basic poker math.
awkward
Tv poker calculates odds differently cause they see all cards but players still have to calculate based off of theoretical outs nor actual outs.

I was thinking the same thing but I couldn't have stated it as clearly. Yes, I DO think Nagy gives a fuck about collusion at ACR. However ineffective he has been at stopping it, I think he would do something if he knew what to do. As BCB stated, the only ones who might benefit from this development are good players who realize it makes no difference, as they would start taking more money faster from the bad players.
This would be entirely different in stud. I gave up playing stud many years ago when I admitted that I could not keep track of cards already seen. I knew that aome players COULD keep track and this gave them a big advantage over me. With a constant shuffle feature this advantage would be eliminated and I might still be playing stud today.

(Disclaimer: No AI was used in the construction of this response. All awkward sentence structure is soley the fault of the author's 7th grade English teacher)

Phil Nagy couldn't give 2 shits about collusion lols ... dude jet sets around the world lighting ACR money on fire in high rollers. He is Ray Bitar 2.0, fat, dumb, but well connected

[Dan Druff]

It wont really change odds at all. Strategy is unchanged. There are weird examples where calculating ranges preflop in multiple way 3 bet pots might actually change something by a percent or two. But really this affects nothing except perception of the game (which is the biggest concern) The real problem is fish could see this and become worried about fair shuffling or just not feel cool about the idea.

The card dead thing is not an issue as you'd never know you were card dead anyways in online games unless players were showing their cards.

If people are dumb enough to increase their vpip because of this it’s free money for good players. I’m ashamed op doesn’t understand this. When you calculate outs you do so from all cards remaining including in players hands not just the deck. This is basic poker math.

Tv poker calculates odds differently cause they see all cards but players still have to calculate based off of theoretical outs nor actual outs.

He's right that it changes the game a little bit, though. It's not from a pot odds perspective, but from the perspective of hand reading.

If someone you put on a certain hand mucks their cards, you know those cards are out. Now you don't know that. Doesn't hugely change the game, but it does change something.

As long as Nagy is super clear about this stuff having changed, I'm fine with it. They do have a big bot/collusion issue on ACR, so perhaps they're right that something like this is necessary.

[aayjay]

I see very little actual change here , I agree with poster above , strategy shouldnt change

[FRANKRIZZO]

I hear ya. They fucked up with bomb pot 4 times an hour for all players of 5 times ante while not giving you option in some stakes to play standard.

[BetCheckBet]

It wont really change odds at all. Strategy is unchanged. There are weird examples where calculating ranges preflop in multiple way 3 bet pots might actually change something by a percent or two. But really this affects nothing except perception of the game (which is the biggest concern) The real problem is fish could see this and become worried about fair shuffling or just not feel cool about the idea.

The card dead thing is not an issue as you'd never know you were card dead anyways in online games unless players were showing their cards.

If people are dumb enough to increase their vpip because of this it’s free money for good players. I’m ashamed op doesn’t understand this. When you calculate outs you do so from all cards remaining including in players hands not just the deck. This is basic poker math.

Tv poker calculates odds differently cause they see all cards but players still have to calculate based off of theoretical outs nor actual outs.

He's right that it changes the game a little bit, though. It's not from a pot odds perspective, but from the perspective of hand reading.

If someone you put on a certain hand mucks their cards, you know those cards are out. Now you don't know that. Doesn't hugely change the game, but it does change something.

As long as Nagy is super clear about this stuff having changed, I'm fine with it. They do have a big bot/collusion issue on ACR, so perhaps they're right that something like this is necessary.

You are correct but nearly impossible to put someone on a certain hand. Range is much more likely and in that case it’s still gonna barely change anything. People already overvalue the idea of blockers and this is less than 10 percent of that. I mean honestly druff you tell me you are counting outs on the fly off of hands the players folded preflop or on flop? No one really has the brainpower to do this and you’ll level yourself doing it

Perhaps a gto bot could do something but I’m much more worried about gto bots period. I always predicted they would destroy online poker and we are probably there in under 2 years unless poker sites find a way to properly detect them

Also collusion is a huge issue and sites do basically nothing against it. the rate of people getting caught cheating in poker is about 5 percent of those getting caught cheating in casual videos for no money. Numbers should be reversed. Online cheating in poker is insane. Best kept secret in all of poker

Chess.com I routinely get notifications of cheaters being caught. Poker I played millions of hands and never got a penny…

[matos]

How hard is it to catch cheaters in online poker? Feel like it's just laziness on behalf of ACR. Look at the guys who always play together at the plo and plo5 tables, look at the big winners, look at the players coming out of eastern europe and other shitholes. It's not rocket science. ACR can't even fix a big issue in that you can't start more than one table even if it's at a different stake or game type. Sad state of online poker in USA.

[ftpjesus]

How hard is it to catch cheaters in online poker? Feel like it's just laziness on behalf of ACR. Look at the guys who always play together at the plo and plo5 tables, look at the big winners, look at the players coming out of eastern europe and other shitholes. It's not rocket science. ACR can't even fix a big issue in that you can't start more than one table even if it's at a different stake or game type. Sad state of online poker in USA.

Nope just typical ACR failure. I respect others opinions on this and maybe Im jaded due to my utter disgust and bias against them but I still think its really screwing with the games IMO. I mean even the constant shuffle thing is weird technically the deck should be set by the RNG each hand and be the end of it to simulate a legitmate card deck and game.

[lol wow]

lol at gambling online and not just playing blackjack roulette and then going 27 dollar heads up sit n gos

[lol wow]

winning one getting bored play a 60 win that then lose one in like 4 hands then start betting 100 dollar hands of blackjack but not going online dealer method choosing the software winning 400 going back play one sit n go win or lose get bored go back to blackjack pick the live dealer cuz you love hearing puerto ricans chatter in the background lose first 2 hands start betting 400 get back to plus go back to boring as poker and rinse and repeat

[ShawnFanningsLimpDick]

It completely changes the game, especially if they implement it for PLO as suggested. If the board pairs on the turn you can rule out quads for example. More generally just consider a thought experiment where people retain high cards and fold low ones pre-flop. If nine players are dealt in and six fold pre-flop then their twenty-four discards are going to massively dilute the remaining good cards in the deck.

[FRANKRIZZO]

I still am not comprehending what they are doing. Are they as an example changing the flop and putting discarded cards back in?